ozleicester Posted 14 January 2019 Share Posted 14 January 2019 14 hours ago, Buce said: Robbie Williams is being a prìck: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46855232 rich gump upsets other rich gump 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 14 January 2019 Share Posted 14 January 2019 17 hours ago, Buce said: Robbie Williams is being a prìck: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46855232 Weird. If Williams really wanted to torment Jimmy Page he’d blast his own music at him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 14 January 2019 Share Posted 14 January 2019 “Sturgeon refers herself to ministerial watchdog” regarding discussions with Salmond over claims of sexual harassment. Hmmm ... al sounds a bit fishy to me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 January 2019 Author Share Posted 14 January 2019 24 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: Weird. If Williams really wanted to torment Jimmy Page he’d blast his own music at him. Wash your mouth out, philistine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 14 January 2019 Share Posted 14 January 2019 4 minutes ago, Buce said: Wash your mouth out, philistine!! Sorry Buce, didn’t realise you were such a Williams fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 January 2019 Author Share Posted 14 January 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: Sorry Buce, didn’t realise you were such a Williams fan! I’m not. Shit, did you mean William’s own music? I thought you meant Page’s. ? Edited 14 January 2019 by Buce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 January 2019 Author Share Posted 14 January 2019 Tory Whip resigns: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/jan/14/brexit-latest-news-theresa-may-speech-liam-fox-claims-no-deal-survivable-as-may-launches-last-minute-bid-to-rescue-her-deal-politics-live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 14 January 2019 Share Posted 14 January 2019 2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: Weird. If Williams really wanted to torment Jimmy Page he’d blast his own music at him. AC/DC would have been a better choice than Black Sabbath. There would have been a pleasing symmetry in the bloke responsible for "Stairway to heaven" being driven mad listening to "Highway to hell". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 14 January 2019 Share Posted 14 January 2019 (edited) I half expect tomorrow's headline to be: Teresa May Tells MP's To Back Her Deal or ALL PUPPIES IN THE WORLD DIE. Edited 14 January 2019 by bovril Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 January 2019 Author Share Posted 14 January 2019 Boris Johnson dismisses Brexit claims of Jaguar Land Rover boss Former foreign secretary claims he knows more about car making than Ralf Speth Johnson served as foreign secretary from July 2016 until July last year. He has not served in transport roles in central government although, as mayor of London from 2008 to 2016, he had responsibility for transport in the capital. Speth, on the other hand, has more than 30 years’ automotive industry experience, after starting out working for BMW in his native Germany. He worked for BMW for 20 years and also had a stint as director of production for Ford’s luxury car brands. He joined JLR in February 2010 as chief executive, joining the board of Tata Motors at the same time. He also has a doctorate in engineering and is a professor at the University of Warwick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddybad Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 (edited) I don't really want to get too involved in this but, given that later today we're likely to see a government in complete meltdown, it's hard not to pass any comment at all. I honestly can't work out what leave MPs are doing. I can only think it's a longer term plan to take control of the Tory party, because it doesn't appear to be about Brexit. It's no secret that parliament won't let no deal happen. Although recent votes have been close, the approx 250 MPs voting with the government for May's deal today made up the vast majority of the less than 300 votes against the remain/Norway MPs' amendments. So we're looking at 50 no deal MPs plus perhaps a proportion of those currently voting with May. So it seems likely that at least two thirds of the house are against no deal. I happen to think that no deal wasn't ever an option on the ballot paper at the referendum and, although the will of the people can be said to have been determined back in 2016, it doesn't become binding on government to drag us out catastrophically. It becomes binding on government to try to leave sensibly. But that's not really the point of this post. I'm obviously a remainer (though I could be convinced by Norway type affair though it's unlikely to be in EFTA as Norway don't want that), but I genuinely can't understand why a Leaver would vote against May's deal. The only reason a backstop exists is because we were adamant that the 'implementation period' (lol) had to be time limited. Clearly, under the deal, we leave the EU at the end of March. That's the ultimate result for leavers. We would then have a period of transition. If the final trade deal isn't quite complete by the end of the transition (and it was leavers that claimed the deal would be quick and easy), then we clearly need either more transition, or something else, to bridge the gap. And it can't be time limited now as we don't know how long the gap would be. It wouldn't make any sense for the backup to have a guaranteed time limit. It itself is simply an insurance policy if more time is required. The only argument really being used against the deal by leavers is some sort of paranoid delusion that the EU are trying to force us to stay. Yet the EU believes that in allowing the whole UK to have a customs union and single market access through the whole of the transition and backstop it has given a huge win to the UK, as it doesn't want a state not in the EU to have that much access really. It seems to me that with the parliamentary arithmetic as it is, this deal is the only chance leavers have of leaving with a harder Brexit still on the table after withdrawal. It takes us out of the EU on March, gives them 2+ years to try to replace May and install a Brexiteer Prime Minister, and keeps the Tories in power (not that I expect that to change anyway). So they'd have 95% of what they're looking for. Yet they're poised to vote against because of some weird conspiracy theory about the backstop. What's worse is they've convinced leavers across the country that the deal is terrible for their aims, when it doesn't really seem to be. I can only conclude that they don't want Brexit to happen but want remainers to take the blame. Which makes me think it's really about control of the Tory party. Edited 15 January 2019 by Toddybad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 3 minutes ago, Toddybad said: I don't really want to get too involved in this but, given that later today we're likely to see a government in complete meltdown, it's hard not to pass any comment at all. I honestly can't work out what leave MPs are doing. I can only think it's a longer term plan to take control of the Tory party, because it doesn't appear to be about Brexit. It's no secret that parliament won't let no deal happen. Although recent votes have been close, the approx 250 MPs voting with the government for May's deal today made up the vast majority of the less than 300 votes against the remain/Norway MPs' amendments. So we're looking at 50 no deal MPs plus perhaps a proportion of those currently voting with May. So it seems likely that at least two thirds of the house are against no deal. I happen to think that no deal wasn't ever an option on the ballot paper at the referendum and, although the will of the people can be said to have been determined back in 2016, it doesn't become binding on government to drag us out catastrophically. It becomes binding on government to try to leave sensibly. But that's not really the point of this post. I'm obviously a remainer (though I could be convinced by Norway type affair though it's unlikely to be in EFTA as Norway don't want that), but I genuinely can't understand why a Leaver would vote against May's deal. The only reason a backstop exists is because we were adamant that the 'implementation period' (lol) had to be time limited. Clearly, under the deal, we leave the EU at the end of March. That's the ultimate result for leavers. We would then have a period of transition. If the final trade deal isn't quite complete by the end of the transition (and it was leavers that claimed the deal would be quick and easy), then we clearly need either more transition, or something else, to bridge the gap. And it can't be time limited now as we don't know how long the gap would be. It wouldn't make any sense for the backup to have a guaranteed time limit. It itself is simply an insurance policy if more time is required. The only argument really being used against the deal by leavers is some sort of paranoid delusion that the EU are trying to force us to stay. Yet the EU believes that in allowing the whole UK to have a customs union and single market access through the whole of the transition and backstop it has given a huge win to the UK, as it doesn't want a state not in the EU to have that much access really. It seems to me that with the parliamentary arithmetic as it is, this deal is the only chance leavers have of leaving with a harder Brexit still on the table after withdrawal. It takes us out of the EU on March, gives them 2+ years to try to get rid of May and install a Brexiteer Prime Minister, and keeps the Tories in power (not that I expect that to change anyway). So they'd have 95% of what they're looking for. Yet they're poised to vote against because of some weird conspiracy theory about the backstop. What's worse is they've convinced leavers across the country that the deal is terrible for their aims, when it doesn't really seem to be. I can only conclude that they don't want Brexit to happen, but want remainers to take the blame. Which makes me think it's really about control of the Tory party. What it’s actually about is that the majority of people voted to leave and those that didn’t think that those that did are complete fvckin thickos and are totally fvckin things up in an attempt to sabotage the will of the people. What a fvckin mess. Btw .. nice to have you back Toddy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddybad Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Countryfox said: What it’s actually about is that the majority of people voted to leave and those that didn’t think that those that did are complete fvckin thickos and are totally fvckin things up in an attempt to sabotage the will of the people. What a fvckin mess. Btw .. nice to have you back Toddy ... Cheers mate. There has been an epic failure to manage expectations (when leave was put on the ballot absolutely nobody ever thought it would be leave without anything in place, or it wouldn't have been on the ballot) and dishonesty by the prime minister about what no deal would mean. Not sure at what point people decided that being asked what our future with the EU should be means that they suddenly get imbued with the power to decide precisely what that means when only senior officials/privy council members etc have information pertinent to decision making. But, as I say, don't really want to get into it beyond my post above. Edited 15 January 2019 by Toddybad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 3 hours ago, Countryfox said: I honestly can't work out what leave MPs are doing. Bread and Circuses, the same applies for Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RODNEY FERNIO Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 I voted leave and so did the majority any other decision means that we are not living in a democratic country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 15 January 2019 Author Share Posted 15 January 2019 5 minutes ago, RODNEY FERNIO said: I voted leave and so did the majority any other decision means that we are not living in a democratic country. Who told you we live in a democratic country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayofox Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 Why is May talking about a united Ireland? There''s absolutely no call for it, on either side of the border. The north want to stay tied, while in the south, it's an unthinkable prospect. Never mind the history of the two countries, we don't want any part of the North's financial woes. This is a last minute feeble 'scare' from May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 1 hour ago, RODNEY FERNIO said: I voted leave and so did the majority any other decision means that we are not living in a democratic country. Our head of state is unelected, therefore our elected government will never be fully sovereign. We're not a democratic country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Toddybad said: I don't really want to get too involved in this but, given that later today we're likely to see a government in complete meltdown, it's hard not to pass any comment at all. I honestly can't work out what leave MPs are doing. I can only think it's a longer term plan to take control of the Tory party, because it doesn't appear to be about Brexit. It's no secret that parliament won't let no deal happen. Although recent votes have been close, the approx 250 MPs voting with the government for May's deal today made up the vast majority of the less than 300 votes against the remain/Norway MPs' amendments. So we're looking at 50 no deal MPs plus perhaps a proportion of those currently voting with May. So it seems likely that at least two thirds of the house are against no deal. I happen to think that no deal wasn't ever an option on the ballot paper at the referendum and, although the will of the people can be said to have been determined back in 2016, it doesn't become binding on government to drag us out catastrophically. It becomes binding on government to try to leave sensibly. But that's not really the point of this post. I'm obviously a remainer (though I could be convinced by Norway type affair though it's unlikely to be in EFTA as Norway don't want that), but I genuinely can't understand why a Leaver would vote against May's deal. The only reason a backstop exists is because we were adamant that the 'implementation period' (lol) had to be time limited. Clearly, under the deal, we leave the EU at the end of March. That's the ultimate result for leavers. We would then have a period of transition. If the final trade deal isn't quite complete by the end of the transition (and it was leavers that claimed the deal would be quick and easy), then we clearly need either more transition, or something else, to bridge the gap. And it can't be time limited now as we don't know how long the gap would be. It wouldn't make any sense for the backup to have a guaranteed time limit. It itself is simply an insurance policy if more time is required. The only argument really being used against the deal by leavers is some sort of paranoid delusion that the EU are trying to force us to stay. Yet the EU believes that in allowing the whole UK to have a customs union and single market access through the whole of the transition and backstop it has given a huge win to the UK, as it doesn't want a state not in the EU to have that much access really. It seems to me that with the parliamentary arithmetic as it is, this deal is the only chance leavers have of leaving with a harder Brexit still on the table after withdrawal. It takes us out of the EU on March, gives them 2+ years to try to replace May and install a Brexiteer Prime Minister, and keeps the Tories in power (not that I expect that to change anyway). So they'd have 95% of what they're looking for. Yet they're poised to vote against because of some weird conspiracy theory about the backstop. What's worse is they've convinced leavers across the country that the deal is terrible for their aims, when it doesn't really seem to be. I can only conclude that they don't want Brexit to happen but want remainers to take the blame. Which makes me think it's really about control of the Tory party. Explain how parliament can stop No Deal happening without the government agreeing? For what it's worth my prediction. Deal loses by around 170 Labour tables motion of No Confidence Loses it Corbyn still refuses to change as he wants no part of taking this on May's deal passes on 2nd attempt with small changes on backstop Edited 15 January 2019 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wycombe Fox Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 https://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/17356946.masked-superhero-the-wight-knight-pledges-to-clean-up-isle-of-wight-streets/ Can't see this ending well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 2 minutes ago, Isle of Wight Fox said: https://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/17356946.masked-superhero-the-wight-knight-pledges-to-clean-up-isle-of-wight-streets/ Can't see this ending well. Masked superhero. From Newport Whos 20-30 years old And an ex doorman Living on the Island And has a daughter They’ll never find out his identity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 1 hour ago, MattP said: Explain how parliament can stop No Deal happening without the government agreeing? For what it's worth my prediction. Deal loses by around 170 Labour tables motion of No Confidence Loses it Corbyn still refuses to change as he wants no part of taking this on May's deal passes on 2nd attempt with small changes on backstop I think this will likely be very close to what happens. My feeling is that Mays deal won’t pass a second time and article 50 will be extended and it’ll drag on. Had JRM’s Brexiteers left their vote of no confidence until this moment I feel May would have been toppled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddybad Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 1 hour ago, MattP said: Explain how parliament can stop No Deal happening without the government agreeing? For what it's worth my prediction. Deal loses by around 170 Labour tables motion of No Confidence Loses it Corbyn still refuses to change as he wants no part of taking this on May's deal passes on 2nd attempt with small changes on backstop You may be right on the second bit. I don't expect the motion of no confidence to pass. I expect a closer second vote. But I think there's no chance of no deal. People like Letwin have made it very clear they will vote in any way necessary to avoid that, which it sounded like included collapsing the government if necessary. There's nothing stopping a second vote of confidence if Corbyn can demonstrate MPs votes have changed. On your first point only a few days ago you were railing against ignoring parliamentary precedents. Now you're suggesting the government could just ignore the clear will of the House on our biggest foreign policy issue since the war? Not going to happen. I am interested to see what the scheme is that the Norway/remain MPs have come up with to enforce control over the executive if they had to. It would clearly involve changing the rules of parliament but the fact they are able to do so is in itself a backstop against dictatorship. Interesting times. Anyway, I'm out of here to talk about Leicester City elsewhere on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 15 January 2019 Author Share Posted 15 January 2019 You can close the voting for the 'Euphemism of the Century' Award - we have a winner: 'Brexit is a complete cluster shambles' - Layla Moran (Lib Dem MP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 January 2019 Share Posted 15 January 2019 8 hours ago, ozleicester said: Bread and Circuses, the same applies for Trump You little tinker Oz !! ... you quoting quotes I didn’t make ?!! ... You could get a job in politics ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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