What's in the news?

[RODNEY FERNIO]

3 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

I wish I could. 

 

These sorts of responses look an awful lot like an abdication of responsibility but I'll leave that to people's consciences. 

Just accept the fact .. you are a boring inconsequential twat that basically talks complete and utter garbage.

[The Guvnor]

The leave voters in the referendum gave parliament a mandate to take control of our laws money and borders. That is where the responsibility of leave voters ends. The inability of Parliament to fulfil the mandate is fcuk all to do with leave voters.

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Just accept the fact .. you are a boring inconsequential twat that basically talks complete and utter garbage.

No need to get personal with insults.

[Toddybad]

3 minutes ago, The Guvnor said:

The leave voters in the referendum gave parliament a mandate to take control of our laws money and borders. That is where the responsibility of leave voters ends. The inability of Parliament to fulfil the mandate is fcuk all to do with leave voters.

Lmao. 

You voted leave following a campaign that called the idea we'd leave the single market project fear, and claimed we'd have easy trade deals. 

Now all you can do is parrot Teresa May whilst no doubt hating her for being a remainer. 

 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

Lmao. 

You voted leave following a campaign that called the idea we'd leave the single market project fear, and claimed we'd have easy trade deals. 

Now all you can do is parrot Teresa May whilst no doubt hating her for being a remainer. 

 

Have you been drinking again?

[Stadt]

On the subject of Italy and France, it suits the Russia and Putin down to the ground. Putin's manipulated the west masterfully, got a puppet in the whitehouse and the EU is getting significantly weaker. Belarus will be next.

[bovril]

24 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

This is the problem. We're leaving the EU, end of. There's little point in blaming people, you may as well just emigrate now and leave the rest of us to make it work. 

Yes and no. We attribute blame in situations in part to learn from mistakes. As a nation we should be honest about the causes although I doubt we'll agree on them. 

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, The Guvnor said:

The leave voters in the referendum gave parliament a mandate to take control of our laws money and borders. That is where the responsibility of leave voters ends. The inability of Parliament to fulfil the mandate is fcuk all to do with leave voters.

The great British electorate appear to have voted for Parliament to make 2 + 2 = 5.

 

Not really their fault, as they were reliably informed that this is entirely possible.

[Guest MattP]

2 hours ago, Toddybad said:

Unfortunately you voted for this so you can't back out now. You were all for this stuff a year ago. You'll have to accept the blame along with every other leaver if this goes to ****. 

I don't back out of anything, I'd vote leave tomorrow again. 

 

I didn't vote for the current deal and I didn't vote for the way these negotiations have been conducted - I fully expect my next vote at a GE to be based on Brexit as well.

 

You voted Labour in 2017 so you also voted for Brexit to be implemented. 

 

You can't back out from that.

 

1 hour ago, Toddybad said:

Lmao. 

You voted leave following a campaign that called the idea we'd leave the single market project fear, and claimed we'd have easy trade deals. 

Now all you can do is parrot Teresa May whilst no doubt hating her for being a remainer. 

Who in the campaign said leaving the single market was project fear?

 

Both sides actually made it clear leaving the single market was part of a vote to leave at the time. 

[Voll Blau]

2 hours ago, The Guvnor said:

The leave voters in the referendum gave parliament a mandate to take control of our laws money and borders. That is where the responsibility of leave voters ends. The inability of Parliament to fulfil the mandate is fcuk all to do with leave voters.

Didn't see that on the ballot paper...

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

 

Both sides actually made it clear leaving the single market was part of a vote to leave at the time. 

 

You keep telling this lie. I keep pointing out that it is a lie, but you keep repeating it. I keep challenging you to show me where the Vote Leave web site makes it clear that leaving the SM was part of a Leave vote. You keep not doing so. I presume this is based on the assumption that if you repeat a lie often enough, you can con people into believing that it's the truth?

Here's the web site: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing.html

 

It's true that Cameron & Osborne made that claim, but they did so as a dishonest tactic, hoping to use the claim to scare people into a Remain vote. It's true that Gove made that claim - and that Boris, when put on the spot 10 days before the vote, said he agreed with him. Most of the Leave side deliberately avoided making it clear, even if they thought it - for the precise reason that Cameron & Osborne used the claim: they feared it was a vote winner for Remain.

If Vote Leave made it clear, why is it nowhere to be found on the Vote Leave web site?

 

Here are a couple of your previous replies:

- 24 Sept. 2018: "Vote Leave isn't a political party, it couldnt promise to leave the single market as no one in it had that power, hence Cameron and Osborne saying that's what it meant if we voted leave and Michael Gove and Boris saying "we should be" outside of it.  It would have been ridiculous for people like Gisele Stuart to make promises on what government policy would be when she was a Labour backbencher. The only people who could make the promise were the people in government as they the ones who were in charge of implementing the decision".

- 19 Dec. 2018: "I can't give you an example of VL giving that assurance of it and I won't try"

 

Here's what the Vote Leave site DOES say about the UK economy:

- The EU’s failure to conclude just five trade agreements with the United States, Japan, ASEAN, India and Mercosur has, according to the European Commission’s own figures, cost the UK 284,341 jobs.

- After we Vote Leave, we will immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals which could enter into force straight after the UK leaves the EU. As a member of the EU, we are forbidden from striking our own trade deals.

- It will be possible to strike these agreements quickly. Oxford Economics has said that ‘an analysis of regional trade deals conducted over the past 20 years found an average duration of 28 months’.

- By the next election, the UK will leave the EU’s ‘common commercial policy’, taking back the power to strike its own free trade agreements. The UK will also take back its seat on the World Trade Organization and other international bodies, becoming a more influential force for free trade and friendly cooperation. 

 

(That last promise to "leave the EU's 'common commercial policy' " could even be cited as evidence of them CONCEALING their intentions)

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail.

 

A popular maxim of the successful in life.

 

Or to put it another way...

 

There's a special kind of hell for people who conceive to take major action with no idea how to achieve it.

 

I'm right, right?!

Edited 9 February 2019 by Trav Le Bleu

[RODNEY FERNIO]

4 hours ago, davieG said:

No need to get personal with insults.

Not an insult Dave … but a fact.

If you want to ban me from the forum and keep this idiot on it … then it's your choice.

But if he's still spouting his left wing nonsense on this forum in another 12 hours then this will be my last post on here.

Shame on you if that's the case  … in his own words the prat has already been banned once and he's only got a hundred odd posts.

[yorkie1999]

5 hours ago, Toddybad said:

I wish I could. 

 

These sorts of responses look an awful lot like an abdication of responsibility but I'll leave that to people's consciences. 

As I didn’t vote, because I felt lending my support to a bunch of workshy highwaymen who are all on a massive gravy train and need my support in order to satisfy their egos, yes you’re right, it is an abdication of responsibility.

[Toddybad]

4 hours ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Not an insult Dave … but a fact.

If you want to ban me from the forum and keep this idiot on it … then it's your choice.

But if he's still spouting his left wing nonsense on this forum in another 12 hours then this will be my last post on here.

Shame on you if that's the case  … in his own words the prat has already been banned once and he's only got a hundred odd posts.

Rodney, we just disagree. It's the one policy that really has split our country down the middle in a way I don't remember any other doing. There's nothing personal in it. 

 

As a remainer if brexit is a roaring success I expect to have to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. If it isn't I have my doubts that we'll get the same from leavers, on current evidence.

 

It's really not a reason to get seriously angry though. We only know each other through this forum but I'm sure away from these one flavour conversations there is much about the world we'd agree on. 

[Innovindil]

Legit can't believe it's 2019 and people are still getting wound up by toddy's high-horse prancing around. What a time to be alive. 

[Toddybad]

31 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Legit can't believe it's 2019 and people are still getting wound up by toddy's high-horse prancing around. What a time to be alive. 

It's not even that high a horse. More a one trick pony tbf... 

[Guest MattP]

9 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

You keep telling this lie. I keep pointing out that it is a lie, but you keep repeating it. I keep challenging you to show me where the Vote Leave web site makes it clear that leaving the SM was part of a Leave vote. You keep not doing so. I presume this is based on the assumption that if you repeat a lie often enough, you can con people into believing that it's the truth?

Here's the web site: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing.html

 

It's true that Cameron & Osborne made that claim, but they did so as a dishonest tactic, hoping to use the claim to scare people into a Remain vote. It's true that Gove made that claim - and that Boris, when put on the spot 10 days before the vote, said he agreed with him. Most of the Leave side deliberately avoided making it clear, even if they thought it - for the precise reason that Cameron & Osborne used the claim: they feared it was a vote winner for Remain.

If Vote Leave made it clear, why is it nowhere to be found on the Vote Leave web site?

 

Here are a couple of your previous replies:

- 24 Sept. 2018: "Vote Leave isn't a political party, it couldnt promise to leave the single market as no one in it had that power, hence Cameron and Osborne saying that's what it meant if we voted leave and Michael Gove and Boris saying "we should be" outside of it.  It would have been ridiculous for people like Gisele Stuart to make promises on what government policy would be when she was a Labour backbencher. The only people who could make the promise were the people in government as they the ones who were in charge of implementing the decision".

- 19 Dec. 2018: "I can't give you an example of VL giving that assurance of it and I won't try"

 

Here's what the Vote Leave site DOES say about the UK economy:

- The EU’s failure to conclude just five trade agreements with the United States, Japan, ASEAN, India and Mercosur has, according to the European Commission’s own figures, cost the UK 284,341 jobs.

- After we Vote Leave, we will immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals which could enter into force straight after the UK leaves the EU. As a member of the EU, we are forbidden from striking our own trade deals.

- It will be possible to strike these agreements quickly. Oxford Economics has said that ‘an analysis of regional trade deals conducted over the past 20 years found an average duration of 28 months’.

- By the next election, the UK will leave the EU’s ‘common commercial policy’, taking back the power to strike its own free trade agreements. The UK will also take back its seat on the World Trade Organization and other international bodies, becoming a more influential force for free trade and friendly cooperation. 

 

(That last promise to "leave the EU's 'common commercial policy' " could even be cited as evidence of them CONCEALING their intentions(

Sorry.

 

I revise my comment to "leading figures from both sides of the campaign made it clear a vote to leave meant leaving the single market".

 

Although as @Kopfkino

[Guest MattP]

20 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

As I understand it, the action being taken against Berger is a no-confidence vote, not a deselection - on the grounds that she's been publicly criticising party/leadership decisions and has declined to deny rumours that she's planning to join others in establishing a breakaway party. That seems like reasonable grounds for a confidence debate.

No confidence motion withdrawn and Tom Watson has reportedly written to the Secretary asking for the suspension of her local party on grounds of bullying and harrassment.

 

This one will continue to run and run.

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/no-confidence-motions-against-luciana-15803165

Edited 9 February 2019 by MattP