In It Together?

[5waller5]

Remember the great days when we were "in it together"?

 

The Great escape season under NP and of course the most amazing season ever under Claudio.

 

Feels so long ago doesn't it? Why does it feel so different? 

 

For me, under NP and CR we could see an action plan, we could see tactics, we could see new moves from the training ground, we had a manager with a vision. In short we could see the intent and could believe in it being successful, we could see progress, we could back the manager and club with extra enthusiasm. We bought into the dream (and the dream happened).

 

All I see under Puel is a clueless approach to attacking the opposition, it's not improving, we aren't breaking teams down or creating good chances. I read the forums and see fans divided, criticising different players, systems, formations, searching for the magic answer why we look so clueless.

 

As fans we can't get behind Claude's style of play, so the atmosphere is deteriorating, attendances will follow, and the decline will result in the best players leaving, unable to attract new talent, and quickly we'll be looking back on our time in the Premier league.

 

We used to be "in it together" ...... Club / Fans /  Management / Board / Players ..... Puel is breaking that bond with negative uninspiring football giving us nothing to be excited by, nothing to "back", nothing to be proud of.

 

The big question for the board, and reason for new thread, is.....

 

Is that bond necessary?

If it is, can Claude turn it around?

Is league position more important than "being in it together"?

Is style of play important?

 

 

[bfox]

2 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

Remember the great days when we were "in it together"?

 

The Great escape season under NP and of course the most amazing season ever under Claudio.

 

Feels so long ago doesn't it? Why does it feel so different? 

 

For me, under NP and CR we could see an action plan, we could see tactics, we could see new moves from the training ground, we had a manager with a vision. In short we could see the intent and could believe in it being successful, we could see progress, we could back the manager and club with extra enthusiasm. We bought into the dream (and the dream happened).

 

All I see under Puel is a clueless approach to attacking the opposition, it's not improving, we aren't breaking teams down or creating good chances. I read the forums and see fans divided, criticising different players, systems, formations, searching for the magic answer why we look so clueless.

 

As fans we can't get behind Claude's style of play, so the atmosphere is deteriorating, attendances will follow, and the decline will result in the best players leaving, unable to attract new talent, and quickly we'll be looking back on our time in the Premier league.

 

We used to be "in it together" ...... Club / Fans /  Management / Board / Players ..... Puel is breaking that bond with negative uninspiring football giving us nothing to be excited by, nothing to "back", nothing to be proud of.

 

The big question for the board, and reason for new thread, is.....

 

Is that bond necessary?

If it is, can Claude turn it around?

Is league position more important than "being in it together"?

Is style of play important?

 

 

people feel so disconnect to the manager and team because we dont even know what the vision is and where we are going. It doesn't help Puel telling us to lower our expectations but not actually telling us what he's trying to do. I dont even think the players know.

[5waller5]

1 minute ago, bfox said:

people feel so disconnect to the manager and team because we dont even know what the vision is and where we are going. It doesn't help Puel telling us to lower our expectations but not actually telling us what he's trying to do. I dont even think the players know.

Sums it up nicely for me too!

[brucey]

The football may be tough to watch, with no discernable style, but I think it's pretty clear what Puel's vision and remit is: to develop the young players. And that is one thing he does well.

[Monsell1976]

I think a lot of it’s wore thin, when you have an exciting relegation battle, or fighting for an unexpected title, people naturally rally behind the cause.

 

 When the football is dire and boring for long period, and the same players are spouting this sort of thing in the press, as well as we are looking to improve, only to be as boring and bad, wears thin a bit.

 

 We have been spoilt, but in all my years of watching city this period of time is probably the most boring since pleat.

 

 I am no glory supporter, if the club survived the financial side of it, I couldn’t give two tosses about finishing mid table in the premier league, season over by jan every year because we can’t be arse with the cup, I’d be quite happy in the championship yo, yoing between the divisions, as long as it gave me that feeling back of its match day, and getting excited, because at present I have nothing, it kinda feels like a chore.

Edited 12 January 2019 by Monsell1976

[KansasFox]

Whether you are in favour of Puel or not.  I'm not sure the lack of 'in it together' is down to him.  I think a lot of it is about expectation.  In the great escape, there was a sense of reality of the quality we had and that it would be a battle to stay up.  Therefore, the crowd rose to the challenge and we backed the team.  

In the League winning year, we hoped with great hope, but didn't really expect or believe it would happen till it was actually confirmed, there was such a buzz, there was no way, we could NOT be together, the whole nation pretty much was backing us.

Now we have found ourselves mid table, with the after affects of the premier league win and heightened (sometimes unrealistic) expectations.  Very little that we will achieve will be satisfying for many, and so most things will seem disappointing.

I think to some extent that all middle of the table teams face this.  The premier league is most thrilling at the bottom and top.

But when stuck in the middle, the in it together, in my view is going to be most down to the attitude of the fans.  For me, there is a reason that we struggle most at home, and that is how easy the fans can turn.  That toxicity has to change, and Puel alone cannot change that.

I get it is down to performance, to some extent, but performance can also be down to the players feeling that we are not 'in this together', that I think is also the fault of us fans! 

[5waller5]

2 minutes ago, brucey said:

The football may be tough to watch, with no discernable style, but I think it's pretty clear what Puel's vision and remit is: to develop the young players. And that is one thing he does well.

He certainly plays youngsters, I agree and applaud him for this ..... But does he develop them?

 

All of our young attacking players have looked better in their debut games than after 6 months of Puel's coaching? I asked in a different thread if anyone could think of a young player that has improved under Puel

[Monsell1976]

7 minutes ago, bfox said:

people feel so disconnect to the manager and team because we dont even know what the vision is and where we are going. It doesn't help Puel telling us to lower our expectations but not actually telling us what he's trying to do. I dont even think the players know.

As he said in between the interview, we are not his concern, when asked about the boos, if he doesn’t care about us booing, I guess he’s not concern about us being on board with his plans.

[Dahnsouff]

Think it doesn’t help that the bond was built over many years with Nige and then massively reinforced with siege mentaility during the great escape.

But of course, the siege mentality cannot remain  - we won the damn thing after all.

[5waller5]

5 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said:

I think a lot of it’s wore thin, when you have an exciting relegation battle, or fighting for an unexpected title, people naturally rally behind the cause.

 

 When the football is dire and boring for long period, and the same players are spouting this sort of thing in the press, as well as we are looking to improve, only to be as boring and bad, wears thin a bit.

 

 We have been spoilt, but in all my years of watching city this period of time is probably the most boring since pleat.

 

 I am no glory supporter, if the club survived the financial side of it, I couldn’t give two tosses about finishing mid table in the premier league, season over by jan every year because we can’t be arse with the cup, I’d be quite happy in the championship yo, yoing between the divisions, as long as it gave me that feeling back of its match, and getting excited, because at present I have nothing, it kinda feels like a chore.

 

I think we must be similar ages and have seen the same periods of LCFC history Monsieur Monsell .... And I'm with you too, apart from the brief Gary Megson reign i cannot remember being this bored with what is usually a great passion of mine - watching OUR club play!

[5waller5]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Think it doesn’t help that the bond was built over many years with Nige and then massively reinforced with siege mentaility during the great escape.

But of course, the siege mentality cannot remain  - we won the damn thing after all.

 

Yeah, interestingly i think that was Micky Adams great strength and weakness - creating a siege mentality, it worked amazingly well for a short time but became impossible to continue long term.

 

I'm not sure we had siege mentality under Claudio - more a shared passion?

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

I find it hard to understand what Claude is saying. He seems to just mumble quietly to himself.

 

Maybe I should get a hearing aid. Are the players supplied with them? Maybe that is their problem.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

The manager has no connection and no rapport with the fan base. How could we possibly be in it together?

 

When he comes out saying the fans’ displeasure is “not his concern” then I wouldn’t ever expect it to change.

 

Puel’s sucked the life out of our team and now the fan base too.

[lcfcbluearmy]

15 minutes ago, brucey said:

The football may be tough to watch, with no discernable style, but I think it's pretty clear what Puel's vision and remit is: to develop the young players. And that is one thing he does well.

Is it though there is a difference between playing young players and developing them. Other than Chilwell a lot of our youth seems to be standing still not improving 

[5waller5]

11 minutes ago, KansasFox said:

Whether you are in favour of Puel or not.  I'm not sure the lack of 'in it together' is down to him.  I think a lot of it is about expectation.  In the great escape, there was a sense of reality of the quality we had and that it would be a battle to stay up.  Therefore, the crowd rose to the challenge and we backed the team.  

In the League winning year, we hoped with great hope, but didn't really expect or believe it would happen till it was actually confirmed, there was such a buzz, there was no way, we could NOT be together, the whole nation pretty much was backing us.

Now we have found ourselves mid table, with the after affects of the premier league win and heightened (sometimes unrealistic) expectations.  Very little that we will achieve will be satisfying for many, and so most things will seem disappointing.

I think to some extent that all middle of the table teams face this.  The premier league is most thrilling at the bottom and top.

But when stuck in the middle, the in it together, in my view is going to be most down to the attitude of the fans.  For me, there is a reason that we struggle most at home, and that is how easy the fans can turn.  That toxicity has to change, and Puel alone cannot change that.

I get it is down to performance, to some extent, but performance can also be down to the players feeling that we are not 'in this together', that I think is also the fault of us fans! 

I agree with all of the above KF.

 

Do you think that if the style of play was exciting to watch, lots of chances, but maybe conceding more goals, and scoring more (so mid table still) it would be different .... It would be difficult to imagine a toxic atmosphere developing??

[shailen]

In the 14/15 season, although we were fighting relegation - we looked good for a large part of that season without getting the results. 

 

Then when we got that first win we went on that incredible run which saw us safe.

 

I never questioned the manager or tactics because we competed in more or less every game with far inferior players to the squad we have now.

 

 

[Nalis]

I think he's just a largely forgettable character, sadly. He wont get us relegated in any season but hopefully we'll thank him for developing Chilwell, Hamza, Barnes, etc.

 

In the bad old days we had a lot of forgetabble managers like Megson, Levein, Allen, etc. In 30 years time, we'll all obviously remember Nigel and Claudio, Shakespeare (as manager) was forgettable, got a feeling Puel will fall into the forgettable bracket too.

[whoareyaaa]

Pearson is a different kettle of fish all together, what he put together was a solid foundation that saw us romp home the title guided by the experience of Claudio and with the addition of a few key players.

 

He set his teams up to play from the off, press, get the first goal and win games, complete opposite of the way Puel wants to play.

 

I also imagine the togetherness comes from man management of players, with talks of unrest at the training ground you didn't get this under Pearson.

 

Imagine being in the dressing room of a Pearson team talk and Puel team talk complete opposite I would imagine.

 

The only thing similar between Pearson and Puel is the way he handles the incomings/outgoings but its not like we can spend loads of money anyhow, so he has no choice but to manage it and develop the young players.

 

He doesn't inspire me one bit I was willing to give him a chance but todays showing has made me realise why I had doubts in the first place plus with the fans at the ground not liking what they are seeing and it does seem toxic in the ground its only a matter of time.

[5waller5]

12 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said:

As he said in between the interview, we are not his concern, when asked about the boos, if he doesn’t care about us booing, I guess he’s not concern about us being on board with his plans.

I didn't hear his interview, how disappointing that he should think that!

[Dan LCFC]

Puel is incapable of building a rapport with fans. I do think we as a fanbase need to look at ourselves a bit in this but it's happened here and at Southampton despite never really being in danger of getting relegated. That isn't a co-incidence.

[5waller5]

2 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Puel is incapable of building a rapport with fans. I do think we as a fanbase need to look at ourselves a bit in this but it's happened here and at Southampton despite never really being in danger of getting relegated. That isn't a co-incidence.

I read a Saints blog recently in which the guy described Puel and his football ..... we are definitely playing the style of football the manager wants, it's exactly what he described as the Saints style. Again - no coincidence, I just hope we get rid as quickly as they did (actually scrub that we've already tolerated him longer!).

[wardyfox86]

30 minutes ago, bfox said:

people feel so disconnect to the manager and team because we dont even know what the vision is and where we are going. It doesn't help Puel telling us to lower our expectations but not actually telling us what he's trying to do. I dont even think the players know.

Disconnect is the perfect word for Puel's tenure. 

[Dahnsouff]

14 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

 

Yeah, interestingly i think that was Micky Adams great strength and weakness - creating a siege mentality, it worked amazingly well for a short time but became impossible to continue long term.

 

I'm not sure we had siege mentality under Claudio - more a shared passion?

The shared togetherness was still there, but not sure really.

[Monsell1976]

5 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

 

I think we must be similar ages and have seen the same periods of LCFC history Monsieur Monsell .... And I'm with you too, apart from the brief Gary Megson reign i cannot remember being this bored with what is usually a great passion of mine - watching OUR club play!

Megson wasn’t here long enough, another one leaves us to a bigger club, and watches his career end quite quick after.

 

 Since I’ve retired through ill health, the club has given me enjoyment following them home and away, but like said I’ve lost that at present.

 

 I used to look weeks in advance to see who we had, wake up match day with my usual routine for the match, meet the lads, get excited, but I’m struggling to be bothered, I’m quite poorly again, and it’s made it too easy to give my ticket away.

 

 Will be music to some ears, but I’ve retired very young through ill health, and am a pensioner at 42, and if puel stays, or there isn’t a vast improvement in what I’m watching, I’m am seriously contemplating not renewing my season tickets, as a £1000 a year is a lot of money to justify, and away games on top, to watch this.

 

 Hope something gets better, as I want my passion for going back

[brucey]

22 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

He certainly plays youngsters, I agree and applaud him for this ..... But does he develop them?

 

All of our young attacking players have looked better in their debut games than after 6 months of Puel's coaching? I asked in a different thread if anyone could think of a young player that has improved under Puel

Choudhury was rubbish last season