walkerleeds Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 13 minutes ago, MC Prussian said: You're circumventing the issue. It's not about the results per se, it's the fact that we should get more out of games against "lesser" teams, performances during that seven-game unbeaten streak weren't overly convincing, were they? Do you see room for improvement or are you just perfectly happy with the way the team is set up right now? This unbeaten streak put(s) a wool over people's eyes - "as long as we don't lose, we're fine and we'll put up with whatever football is served, particularly at home, in front of 25'000+ home fans". We can all circumvent every single issue/ stat though, can we not? I absolutely see room for improvement, which is why i'm very happy Puel is our manager, as he's been excellent so far in overseeing a difficult period for the club (in terms of stabilising us in the league, dealing with off the field situations, integrating academy players into the first team). Yes, we should have beaten Cardiff and Southampton, on paper there's no denying that. But equally, we 'should' have lost to Man City, Chelsea and Everton.
MC Prussian Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 I find John Collins's statements a bit disingenuous. First of all, Puel was his fitness coach, so that gives in no way an indication of how Puel works as a manager, or in the best case, only little. Plus, the experience was 20+ years ago. Don't tell me people can't or won't change, especially in their professional approach, in that period of time. Football in general has changed rather dramatically since the mid- to late 90ies. And so has the approach to it. And again, how can he come to the conclusion that managers such as Pellegrini, Benitez or Silva don't get any stick or less stick than Puel? Where was Chilwell at this point last year? Playing regularly under Puel - after playing regularly under Shakespeare at the end of the latter's tenure. If Puel is unable to deal with disgruntled older players that are being replaced by younger ones (which is only natural), in spite of his vast experience as top-division manager, then I wonder whether he's manager enough to do that. The whole article comes across as a measure to soothen the uproar among the fanbase - and to a lesser extent, in the media (for which I don't really care).
Babylon Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 7 minutes ago, MC Prussian said: You're circumventing the issue. It's not about the results per se, it's the fact that we should get more out of games against "lesser" teams, performances during that seven-game unbeaten streak weren't overly convincing, were they? Do you see room for improvement or are you just perfectly happy with the way the team is set up right now? This unbeaten streak put(s) a wool over people's eyes - "as long as we don't lose, we're fine and we'll put up with whatever football is served, particularly at home, in front of 25'000+ home fans". Whilst of course we all want to improve these results, people act like we're somehow not exactly like everyone else around our position. Wolves Palace L Fulham D Cardiff L Huddersfield L Brighton L Watford L Leicester L Everton D Watford Fulham D Bournemouth L Newastle L Saints D Leicester L Everton D Newcastle D Bournemouth D Burnley D West Ham Bournemouth L Wolves L Leicester D Brighton L Huddersfield D Watford L Burnley L Brighton D Bournemouth L Bournemouth Everton D Burnley L Saints D Newcastle L Wolves L Watford D Brighton L Everton L I'm not saying we're as good as everyone else so lets not bother improving, I'm saying lets not go over the top about this as we're all in the same boat.
The Doctor Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 25 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: I guess we havent had a great run then. Just patchy performance levels throughout the season Precisely. We've not really had any good or bad runs of form. Every other midtable side has had a run of 3/4 wins in 6, then 3/4 defeats in six, while we've just ticked over getting points slowly but surely. Still adds up to the same amount either way 7 minutes ago, Dames said: Am I actually reading that people are using less goals conceded in the second half as a defence for Puel? No, you're obviously not - no-one is saying anything close to that, we're talking about how the record as games progress looks against what you'd expect from claims of being leggy and about fitness issues. It's not a fitness issue, that would see us get worse as games progress, it seems mostly likely a motivation issue, where the players need to find their way into the game and to settle down
Bob Hazels shorts Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 1 hour ago, Oxfordfox83 said: The main reason for remaining Puel in is this: ”A lot of managers go and buy experienced players, 28 or 29-year-olds just to keep them safe in a job for a year and a half, not caring about the future of the club. It’s easier to go and spend money on experienced players.” Whether you like what he’s doing or how he’s doing it, I truly believe he’s trying to improve the club, regardless of how that affects his own career. That is such a rare thing in any field, let alone football management. Plenty of people on here have said they don’t really mind crap football for a year if we phase in some new/young players who aren’t as consistent as experienced pros. But then Ndidi or Maddison make a mistake and it’s unacceptable. Then after the events after West Ham plenty stated that it’s unreasonable to expect more than survival given how vital Vichai was to everything the club was doing. But draw flaccidly at Everton... I don’t believe he’s doing everything right, and I will really worry for this season if we don’t sign a striker to cover the injured/incapable pair of Vardy/Nacho. But I am confident that by the end of the season, Hamza, Barnes, Maddison, Chilwell will be established, experienced and ready to a be bigger part of next term. He won’t gamble their development on saving his job. He won’t wring one more performance from an old pro to ensure we don’t concede through an error. We won’t resort back to hoofball just to appease some loud fans. And that reminds of Pearson rather than Sven... There's no denying that we can benefit from the continued progress of development players debuted pre Puel. We also have players off form who will hopefully return to form, buy a creative midfielder we are screaming for and an extra striker and have a potentially reasonable squad. Unfortunately though in my experienced heart of hearts and the believe of 99% of the people I know, who know their stuff, live, breathe and follow the club to a ridiculous level do not feel what is happening on the pitch suggests the team will achieve its potential under Puel. Fair to say its not looking to get any better. We all want it to happen, he'll have until the end of the season I guess and may in that time stumble upon his eureka moment and get the opportunity to take us forward, seems a nice bloke and I hope that happens. No disgrace. Pearson was outstanding at creating an infrastructure, getting mostly the right players and developing a foundation. Bit of a fruit loop though and couldn't consistently get the playing side right. Claudio was able to get the playing/game side right but when he dabbled in what Pearson had got right he failed.
Monsell1976 Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 4 hours ago, Bert said: We regularly concede early John “If they were leggy or poorly prepared, they’d be losing a goal early in the game and then they’d be losing more goals as the game wore on,” said Collins. We’ve also won one game in our last four. When was the last time we had a really good decent run of form? Be interesting if in 3 games time when we are potentially 12th on the end of a 6 game losing run for all these people that watch week in week out (!) to be saying “they should be grateful, look where they were last season” Er well we are currently in a position worse than we finished last season. Granted he makes a few fair points but some of what he says is very debatable. We have been consistently inconsistent since puel came, and agree its not been enjoyable to watch. Puel is very much the largest reason for this, but the players shouldn’t get away with things, not just with puel, but a large percentage of this squad has seen off 3 managers if puel goes, for one reason or another, but normally because of their inconsistency, and going to the owner because they don’t like the way the manager is doing things, I have to agree with the commentators who say there is to much player power here, when will the players be happy, when they decide who plays, how they play and train?, time to get rid of more than puel for me
Captain... Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 1 hour ago, Babylon said: Serious question, has there ever been a midtable team producing safe but functional football that has ever made a change to "push on" or have a more "entertaining" style and actually managed in doing so without getting worse? Watford, Southampton progressed from Adkins safe & functional style with Poch and Koeman. Everton evolved from Moyes’ pretty successfully under Martinez, it did fall away but that wasn’t the evolution of style that was the problem.
Dames Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 22 minutes ago, The Doctor said: No, you're obviously not - no-one is saying anything close to that, we're talking about how the record as games progress looks against what you'd expect from claims of being leggy and about fitness issues. It's not a fitness issue, that would see us get worse as games progress, it seems mostly likely a motivation issue, where the players need to find their way into the game and to settle down Either way its an issue that Puel hasn't dealt with despite what he says, if anything its getting worse. I'd say the reality of not conceding so late on in games is not down to fitness at all. For the most part recently teams have either been ahead or drawing against us and are happy to sit in and defend against our impotent attack not risking much in terms of going forwards so they aren't caught on the counter. Recently when its come to it and teams have attacked us late in the second half we've conceded - Cardiff, Newport and Wolves are the notable recent examples. People will of course quote and use the games before christmas as a defence from this 'we didnt concede late to Chelsea, Man City or Everton' blah blah but the reality of the current situation is that form and confidence has fallen off a cliff since the Newport game and Puel has shown no signs of being able to fix it or get it right. There is definitely a motivation issue at the club and Puel is getting it wrong for whatever reason and time and patience are fast running out.
Stinkenzo Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 Our best form under Puel was probably his first handful of games
MPH Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 7 hours ago, Dahnsouff said: That is a decent defence of Puel to be fair. Wolves game was never boring, bloody stupid, but not boring, but yeah, plenty have been. Guess it’s nice to hear the other side from someone who actually knows him. First half was terrible.
Bert Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 3 hours ago, The Doctor said: But then we don't lose more goals as the game goes on, which is what he clearly says. If you break it down to 15 minute intervals, our conceded record is: First half 0-15 - 9 16-30 - 2 31-45 - 8 2nd half 45-60 - 2 61-75 - 3 76-90 - 5 We don't tend to concede as the game goes on, we've conceded over 30% of our goals in the first 15 minutes, and only one more in the entirety of the second halves. He's right there - it's not a lack of fitness, that shows more as games go on. Maybe before the Cardiff it would’ve been a fair point. Cardiff at home 90th minute Newport away 85th minute Wolves away 93rd minute I can see a pattern here.
MPH Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 2 minutes ago, Bert said: Which is exactly where we are going wrong. Maybe before the Cardiff it would’ve been a fair point. Cardiff at home 90th minute Newport away 85th minute Wolves away 93rd minute I can see a pattern here. fitness not good u think?
bfox Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 1 hour ago, walkerleeds said: We can all circumvent every single issue/ stat though, can we not? I absolutely see room for improvement, which is why i'm very happy Puel is our manager, as he's been excellent so far in overseeing a difficult period for the club (in terms of stabilising us in the league, dealing with off the field situations, integrating academy players into the first team). Yes, we should have beaten Cardiff and Southampton, on paper there's no denying that. But equally, we 'should' have lost to Man City, Chelsea and Everton. Why do you think we can play well against top sides and why do you think we struggle against everybody else. When teams pack in and there is no space we're shit. I think it's concerning why, after a good 1.5 years Puel still isn't closer to having an answer. Add to that the fact that both here and at Southampton he has destroyed home form. In my eyes he hasn't shown anything other than he's an average manager doing an average job. Thus his ego seems a bit unwarranted at times. The list of +/- ve's can go on and on. This is just a perpetual argument which I don't think either side of the Puel brigade is completely correct.
Dahnsouff Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 7 minutes ago, MPH said: First half was terrible. Didn`t say it was goiod, said it wasn`t boring!
Countryfox Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 Collins mentions that Puel puts the club before himself ... and I'd agree with that. (Unfortunately people like that are a dying breed ... and sadly, in politics nowadays its almost non-existent).
MPH Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: Didn`t say it was goiod, said it wasn`t boring! i thought it was boring too! second half? that’s a different matter of course...
squidsworth Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 Didn't think Wolves was too bad even first half, despite score (which did improve) and defending (which didn't improve). Not sure article adds any real defence, all I can agree with is Puel was a decent (promising) manager the first half of his career! Since then, its all very 'Meh' and its getting worse here at Leicester. No cup final for us like Southampton got, just poor home performances and maybe a top 10 finish (only if things start to improve though). Thus far our away form wasn't too bad, though maybe about to turn for the worse. Maybe I could forgive him and be patient if at least I could come away from home games thinking I enjoyed that, even if result not right. Win, draw or lose, more often I've just felt it was boring. And that's the problem.
Dahnsouff Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 16 minutes ago, MPH said: i thought it was boring too! second half? that’s a different matter of course... 1st half was exciting, like standing on a piece of glass, 2nd half was exciting for better reasons!
The Doctor Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 1 hour ago, Dames said: Either way its an issue that Puel hasn't dealt with despite what he says, if anything its getting worse. I'd say the reality of not conceding so late on in games is not down to fitness at all. For the most part recently teams have either been ahead or drawing against us and are happy to sit in and defend against our impotent attack not risking much in terms of going forwards so they aren't caught on the counter. Recently when its come to it and teams have attacked us late in the second half we've conceded - Cardiff, Newport and Wolves are the notable recent examples. People will of course quote and use the games before christmas as a defence from this 'we didnt concede late to Chelsea, Man City or Everton' blah blah but the reality of the current situation is that form and confidence has fallen off a cliff since the Newport game and Puel has shown no signs of being able to fix it or get it right. There is definitely a motivation issue at the club and Puel is getting it wrong for whatever reason and time and patience are fast running out. Except those goals have come when we've been very open going for the winner ourselves. That's not fitness or poor preparation (as is claimed of the slow starts), that's naivety in chasing victory. 40 minutes ago, Bert said: Maybe before the Cardiff it would’ve been a fair point. Cardiff at home 90th minute Newport away 85th minute Wolves away 93rd minute I can see a pattern here. Do I need to explain recency bias?
Scotch Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 He's not wrong with MOST of those points, to be fair. Logically and on paper, Puel is doing a decent job, I dare say he's going a GOOD job. BUT.... Not only is it unenjoyable watching his Leicester team but it genuinely makes me angry watching is play at the moment. Not only that but I honestly feel like we are going to lose every game. I can't remember going into a game thinking, "we'll win this one"... Maybe Cardiff and Newport but, well... yeah. I'm very much on the fence about Puel and have been from day one. I don't think it's anywhere near as cut and dry as some make it seem. This situation puts me in mind of Celtics old chairman Fergus McCann. Although the circumstances are very different, not in the least that he was a chairman and not a manager, I feel their are similarities. When Fergus was at Celtic, he wasn't very liked. The purse strings were closed, he didn't let them spend, they weren't overly successful under him and their brand lacked something but ask any Celtic fan now and they have nothing but love for him because they see now what he done. He steadied the ship, balanced their finances and secured a better future for them than they would have had. I think there is May be a chance we will do the dame with Claude in a few years. We might look back and say, "We didn't set the world alight but he steadied the ship at a time the club was transitioning all whilst developing goof young players who went on to make an impact in our team/where sold to finance the immediate future of the team. At the same time we were expanding our ground and training facilities with a new owner following the tragedy of Vichai.
gw_leics772 Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 3 hours ago, Babylon said: Serious question, has there ever been a midtable team producing safe but functional football that has ever made a change to "push on" or have a more "entertaining" style and actually managed in doing so without getting worse? I think of the likes of Bolton, West Brom, Stoke, Blackburn, Newcastle all quickly relegated when they got rid of their managers. The likes of Everton, Saints and West Ham have done the same and not improved. I think that's why people say look at your position, because it could be a damn site worse. These dreams of wonderful to watch midtable football rarely happen or rarely last even if they do. I'm not attempting to suggest it's not a valid reason for people to be fed up with it, at the end of the day nobody wants to be bored to death year after year after year. But this is really so far our only comfortable season in this league, the manger has been here about 13 months. Lets be careful what we wish for and not jump the gun on these things. I dont disagree but have to know the response to..... What about spurs, they werent even too 6 not that long ago, and are now pretty much regular top 4. I will give you a get out of jail card so i dont come across as ignorant and stupid though. Maybe thats just the exception that proves the rule?
Bert Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 12 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Except those goals have come when we've been very open going for the winner ourselves. That's not fitness or poor preparation (as is claimed of the slow starts), that's naivety in chasing victory. Do I need to explain recency bias? Not really. Do I need to explain what being patronising is?
Bert Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 52 minutes ago, MPH said: fitness not good u think? I don’t think it’s the fitness. Puel was a fitness coach himself so I’d be highly surprised if that was the case.
The Doctor Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 2 minutes ago, Bert said: Not really. Do I need to explain what being patronising is? Eh, I'd not say that if you didn't manage to completely ignore me explaining how you're wrong before you even made that post...
Babylon Posted 23 January 2019 Posted 23 January 2019 1 hour ago, Captain... said: Watford, Southampton progressed from Adkins safe & functional style with Poch and Koeman. Everton evolved from Moyes’ pretty successfully under Martinez, it did fall away but that wasn’t the evolution of style that was the problem. I thought Saints played some bloody good stuff under Atkins already, they were a great footballing team. Everton debatable, they had one good season and then fell off a cliff. Not sure how well watford have done in terms of football style change, but they certainly do well with their manager picks.
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