Battle of our wingers

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, FIF said:

Stats - they show whatever you've already decided they'll show.

Well yeah, that's one of the basic applications of stats - to help prove or disprove an argument. Here, they show that our wingers don't score or create many goals, which is an interpretation I don't think you can really argue with.

[Guest SO1]

Barnes is a prototype Rodgers attacking player. Speed to create space. The balls and technical ability to take on defenders 1v1. The ability to score goals. He's going to make it. No doubt. If your going to be an attacking player you have to create. That means having the ability to accept failure(balls). Self belief to push beyond the edge.

 

Attacking vs. Defending players is how I look at Rodgers team now. I remember him talking about balance, overloads and shifts between the off. vs def. side of the field.

6 and 4 / 5 and 5 etc. With Rodgers teams and the modern game I think it might be better to think differently about players and positions. I find the numbers don't always apply. It's a players technical skill and tactical understanding that's most important. Fitting in to what the manager is trying to create.

 

[StriderHiryu]

15 minutes ago, FIF said:

Stats - they show whatever you've already decided they'll show.

[Guest SO1]

Screw the past! Its belief in the future that matters.

[KingsX]

       after the BATTLE OF OUR WINGERS

 

 

      (L) to (R)   Barnes,  Albrighton,  Gray,  Ghezzal

[Dan]

Tells me what I already knew - we need to invest in a real quality wide man.

[fuchsntf]

20 hours ago, Foxxed said:

It's pre-season and I'm bored.

 

Price

Ghezzal - 14 million
Gray - 3.4 million
Albrighton - free
Barnes - academy

 

Minutes played

Gray - 1996
(Gray ENG - 255)
Albrighton - 1627
Barnes - 1010
Ghezzal - 739

 

Goals

Gray - 4
(Gray ENG - 1)
Albrighton - 2
Barnes - 1
Ghezzal - 1

 

Assists

Barnes - 4
Albrighton - 2
Gray - 1
(Gray ENG - 0)
Ghezzal - 0

 

Shots per game

Barnes - 2.5
Gray - 1.4
(Gray ENG - 3.7)
Ghezzal - 1
Albrighton - 0.7

 

Key passes per game

Barnes - 1.5
Albrighton - 1.1
Ghezzal - 0.8
Gray - 0.5
(Gray ENG - 1)

 

Tackles per game

Albrighton - 1.3
Ghezzal - 0.7
Gray - 0.7
(Gray ENG - 3.3)
Barnes - 0.4

 

Total chances created

Albrighton - 29
Barnes - 17
Gray - 17
(Gray ENG - no stats)
Ghezzal - 16

 

Total crosses

Albrighton - 125
Gray - 52
(Gray ENG - no stats)
Ghezzal - 45
Barnes - 23

 

Passing accuracy

Ghezzal - 79
Barnes - 79
Gray - 77
(Gray ENG - 89)
Albrighton - 65

 

I included Gray’s u21 games as food for thought: when he puts on the national colours he tackles more, shoots more, has a better pass accuracy, goals per minute ratio and provides double the key passes. And in Barnes's first half season he's become our best key passer and assister.

 

(Stats are from whoscored and sky sports.)

I still Prefer Albrighton..!!!  

[Clarkey123]

On that I still go for barnes + albrighton all day. Gray as an impact sub. And ghezzal... well... 

[Clarkey123]

Given what has been said about James Justin maybe there is potential he could be converted to more of a winger that could link well with ricardo? Young, technical and pacey, seems to have the attributes.

[Meat and 2 veg]

9 minutes ago, Clarkey123 said:

On that I still go for barnes + albrighton all day. Gray as an impact sub. And ghezzal... well... 

Our team is made up of players capable of trying to break into the top 6, then you just look at our wingers. Pretty much all of them are bottom half standard, Barnes has an excuse though as he’s only 22 and played a handful of games. 

[Jimothy]

3 minutes ago, Meat and 2 veg said:

Our team is made up of players capable of trying to break into the top 6, then you just look at our wingers. Pretty much all of them are bottom half standard, Barnes has an excuse though as he’s only 22 and played a handful of games. 

He's 21 

[Clarkey123]

2 hours ago, Meat and 2 veg said:

Our team is made up of players capable of trying to break into the top 6, then you just look at our wingers. Pretty much all of them are bottom half standard, Barnes has an excuse though as he’s only 22 and played a handful of games. 

Bit harsh on albrighton although bit of a 50/50 man these days. Sometimes produces quality performances, sometimes forgetful ones

[Nod.E]

3 hours ago, Clarkey123 said:

Given what has been said about James Justin maybe there is potential he could be converted to more of a winger that could link well with ricardo? Young, technical and pacey, seems to have the attributes.

Admittedly I know nothing about James Justin, but with us in the market for a full back on that wing it does make you wonder whether we have plans for Ricardo further up the pitch.  

[fuchsntf]

We are over  obsessed with wingers....

We have enough,that can deliver. We need more than anything,a 2nd striker,they can deliver to..hight irrelevant.  Liverpool  & especially Man.City have done well

without tall strikers.

get that 2nd striker,and that Quality midfielder,then we can put in consistently a Challenge for Top 5,and Vardy could still give us 3-4 Great years....

[Monsell1976]

On 27/06/2019 at 12:31, Ric Flair said:

In other words, the absolute fcukin pits and our weakest area.

Took the words right out of my mouth, but get slated on here for calling certain players out, we have no creativity at all on the wings once mahrez left, but it’s ok albrighton works hard, gray just needs time ?  

 

 Without sounding arrogant, albrighton is ok against the big teams, when we don’t have much of the ball,  but we are now one of the bigger teams, and as we saw last year, lesser teams will sit in against us, knowing we have little or no quality to break them down, and then nick the result when we make a mistake or a set piece.

 

 Keep albrighton as back up, or when we need to see out the game, get rid of gray, he’s had his chance, he’s a greedy championship player, have a look at ghezzel over the summer, if he looks any good keep as a sqaud player, and then break Barnes into the first team gently, he’s not going to keep his form all season.

 

 And then buy two quality wingers, and youri, and top six here we come ? 

 

We have finally got the right man in Rodgers imo, just hope he ships out the shite like king, James, gray and others, and free’s up there ridiculous wages for doing **** all, holds on to the players he wants, and gets who he wants, either way I think we will do better this season.

[Monsell1976]

1 minute ago, fuchsntf said:

We are over  obsessed with wingers....

We have enough,that can deliver. We need more than anything,a 2nd striker,they can deliver to..hight irrelevant.  Liverpool  & especially Man.City have done well

without tall strikers.

get that 2nd striker,and that Quality midfielder,then we can put in consistently a Challenge for Top 5,and Vardy could still give us 3-4 Great years....

We need quality wingers, and a target man for another option when teams sit in.

 

 Rodgers has mentioned going 3-5-2 so he can get nacho in, wingers will be required to not make us so narrow.

 

 We have not got to go mad, one would do, as gray and albrighton are not good enough, but with the new right back, Ricardo could move up, as for me he was our best winger at right back last season 

[Clarkey123]

19 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said:

Took the words right out of my mouth, but get slated on here for calling certain players out, we have no creativity at all on the wings once mahrez left, but it’s ok albrighton works hard, gray just needs time ?  

 

 Without sounding arrogant, albrighton is ok against the big teams, when we don’t have much of the ball,  but we are now one of the bigger teams, and as we saw last year, lesser teams will sit in against us, knowing we have little or no quality to break them down, and then nick the result when we make a mistake or a set piece.

 

 Keep albrighton as back up, or when we need to see out the game, get rid of gray, he’s had his chance, he’s a greedy championship player, have a look at ghezzel over the summer, if he looks any good keep as a sqaud player, and then break Barnes into the first team gently, he’s not going to keep his form all season.

 

 And then buy two quality wingers, and youri, and top six here we come ? 

 

We have finally got the right man in Rodgers imo, just hope he ships out the shite like king, James, gray and others, and free’s up there ridiculous wages for doing **** all, holds on to the players he wants, and gets who he wants, either way I think we will do better this season.

Agree with absolutely everything you say bar ghezzal, it’s obvious he doesn’t have the quality or consistency to play in a top 10 premier league side 

[fuchsntf]

4 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said:

Took the words right out of my mouth, but get slated on here for calling certain players out, we have no creativity at all on the wings once mahrez left, but it’s ok albrighton works hard, gray just needs time ?  

 

 Without sounding arrogant, albrighton is ok against the big teams, when we don’t have much of the ball,  but we are now one of the bigger teams, and as we saw last year, lesser teams will sit in against us, knowing we have little or no quality to break them down, and then nick the result when we make a mistake or a set piece.

 

 Keep albrighton as back up, or when we need to see out the game, get rid of gray, he’s had his chance, he’s a greedy championship player, have a look at ghezzel over the summer, if he looks any good keep as a sqaud player, and then break Barnes into the first team gently, he’s not going to keep his form all season.

 

 And then buy two quality wingers, and youri, and top six here we come ? 

 

We have finally got the right man in Rodgers imo, just hope he ships out the shite like king, James, gray and others, and free’s up there ridiculous wages for doing **** all, holds on to the players he wants, and gets who he wants, either way I think we will do better this season.

Ahhh. You poor boy...   having depressive Thoughts on Feelings of heavy mobbing...!!

 

We had  seasons with Mahrez after the title....Imo....dorthin I have been saying for centuries (it seems that long). its not the delivery,but having enough players

Getting to those crosses...Like a la Shankley,Allison.....any delivery in the box is a Good delivery, unless its far  too high,or doesnst get by last the 1St man..!!

Forwards,midfielder Lack of movement,or Quantität (tactics) are wrong....This Season how many crosses/changes die we fail to convert....something conviently

Forgotten on this forum....our hero Vardy,should of Easy got 22+ Goals last season...Nacho,many Wanted to hang him!!!  Bit our Singers are Low quality...

No I wont have it..!!!   Plus Good crosses from Chilwell,Barnes, & Periera,also Not taken...Obviously there were some that go astry,but if you hadnt  noticed,

Thats Football !!!an aversion that Hits also Top teams,Bit it seems according to this forum,only Huddersfield und Leicester!!!..

 

[Guest Bob Hazels shorts]

Rodger said in a Q and A that he wants to play a diamond formation next season.

 

Questionable given how high our wing backs play whether we need wingers or do we allow them room to play.

 

This seemed the case with Harvey, Chilwell crowding him out and not releasing the ball.

 

Gray, I'm told from within is amazing in training, nothing he can't do.... but, quote  'he just can play football'

[Stadt]

6 hours ago, Facecloth said:

He's 21 

He’s 21 until he’s 22, that’s how it works 

[ScouseFox]

so basically like we all knew, barnes is comfortably our best player 

[Poznan34]

100+ PL games over 3.5 seasons, 200+ career games. I very much doubt Gray will magic some end product next season. We need a proper right winger who creates chances. Barnes is already the better player. 

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Monsell1976 said:

We need quality wingers, and a target man for another option when teams sit in.

 

 Rodgers has mentioned going 3-5-2 so he can get nacho in, wingers will be required to not make us so narrow.

 

 We have not got to go mad, one would do, as gray and albrighton are not good enough, but with the new right back, Ricardo could move up, as for me he was our best winger at right back last season 

I cant argue ,with your last sentence...

[Foxxed]

On 27/06/2019 at 13:21, Foxxed said:

It's pre-season and I'm bored.

 

Price

Perez - ??

Ghezzal - 14 million
Gray - 3.4 million
Albrighton - free
Barnes - academy

 

Minutes played

Perez - 2928 (33 games)

Gray - 1996 (22 games)
(Gray ENG - 255 - 3 games)
Albrighton - 1627 (18 games)
Barnes - 1010 (11 games)
Ghezzal - 739 (8 games)

 

Goals per 90mins

Perez - 0.36 (12 total)

Ghezzal - 0.25 (1 total)

Gray - 0.18 (4 total)
(Gray ENG - 0.33 - 1 total)
Albrighton - 0.18 (2 total)

Barnes - 0.09 (1 total)

 

Assists per 90

Barnes - 0.36 (4 total)
Albrighton - 0.1 (2 total)

Perez - 0.06 (2 total)

Gray - 0.05 (1 total)
(Gray ENG - 0)
Ghezzal - 0

 

Shots per game

Barnes - 2.5

Perez - 1.5
Gray - 1.4
(Gray ENG - 3.7)
Ghezzal - 1
Albrighton - 0.7

 

Key passes per game

Barnes - 1.5

Perez - 1.2
Albrighton - 1.1
Ghezzal - 0.8
Gray - 0.5
(Gray ENG - 1)

 

Tackles per game

Perez - 1.6

Albrighton - 1.3
Ghezzal - 0.7
Gray - 0.7
(Gray ENG - 3.3)
Barnes - 0.4

 

Interceptions per game

Perez - 1.1

Albrighton - 0.9

Ghezzal - 0.4
Gray - 0.3

Barnes - 0.2

 

Chances created per 90 minutes (total changes / 90 minutes played)

Ghezzal - 2 (16 total)

Albrighton - 1.6 (29 total)
Barnes - 1.5 (17 total)
Perez - 1.4 (47 total)
Gray - 0.7 (17 total)
(Gray ENG - no stats)

 

Total crosses (total)

Albrighton - 125
Gray - 52
(Gray ENG - no stats)
Ghezzal - 45
Barnes - 23

Perez - 22

 

Passing accuracy

Ghezzal - 79
Barnes - 79
Gray - 77

(Gray ENG - 89)
Perez - 76
Albrighton - 65

 

I included Gray’s u21 games as food for thought: when he puts on the national colours he tackles more, shoots more, has a better pass accuracy, goals per minute ratio and provides double the key passes. And in Barnes's first half season he's become our best key passer and assister.

 

(Stats are from whoscored and sky sports.)

I updated to include Perez's season for Newcastle. Worth noting his assists were much better in previous seasons and goals fewer (about eight).

 

And included chaces created per match. And interceptions. Goals and assists are now per 90 mins.

 

Also on Perez and Ghezzal are anywhere on the through balls stats (0.1).

[Foxxed]

He's Albrighton without the crossing but with better tackling and intercepting and he can shoot well and pass adequately. Perez and Barnes on the wings then please. We won't be seeing many crosses, mind.