Also In The News

[Alf Bentley]

25 minutes ago, MattP said:

Genuinely amazed this isn't a bigger story. 

 

If it was the Israelis doing this to Palestinians we would never be hearing the end of it.

 

The Chinese are now so powerful they get get away with anything. 

 

C4 News has covered China/Uighurs a fair bit over months. They seem to be much better than BBC News at investigative journalism, particularly abroad.

 

They've also done some good investigative work on the whole Arron Banks money/Russia/S. African gold mines stuff (highly suspicious, although not conclusive proof).

 

I know C4 News gets some stick for allegedly having left/liberal instincts, possibly justified sometimes. But they often do more penetrating interviews than the BBC (of those of all political persuasions), as well as better investigative journalism.

 

Edited 25 November 2019 by Alf Bentley

[Alf Bentley]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50545658

 

"A lorry driver who is accused over the deaths of 39 migrants in Essex has admitted plotting to assist illegal immigration. Maurice Robinson pleaded guilty at the Old Bailey to conspiring with others to assist illegal immigration between 1 May 2018 and 24 October 2019. The 25-year-old, from Craigavon, is accused of being part of a larger plot to bring people into the UK illegally. Mr Robinson was not asked to plead to 39 charges of manslaughter".

 

It's funny how, as in this case, people who know the suspects always pop up to say that they could never have been involved as they're such nice people etc.

 

I'm sure this bloke didn't for a minute dream that people would die, may not have been responsible for that - and probably wasn't the one organising the scam. But it seems that he knew he was involved in people-smuggling.

 

Must be tempting. I read before that he had a large house (large mortgage?) & his partner had a kid (twins?) on the way. I suppose someone whispers in your ear how you can make a few much-needed grand, "low risk".....

A tragedy mainly for those who died & their families, but also for the small fry who wrongly get tempted into stuff like this. No sympathy for those in charge, though - hope they serve long sentences for their greed & contempt for human life.

[Guest MattP]

34 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

C4 News has covered China/Uighurs a fair bit over months. They seem to be much better than BBC News at investigative journalism, particularly abroad.

 

They've also done some good investigative work on the whole Arron Banks money/Russia/S. African gold mines stuff (highly suspicious, although not conclusive proof).

 

I know C4 News gets some stick for allegedly having left/liberal instincts, possibly justified sometimes. But they often do more penetrating interviews than the BBC (of those of all political persuasions), as well as better investigative journalism.

 

It's definitely justified, they've hounded the leave side and not touched remain since the referendum and when their own directors go to Edinburgh fringe to insult Boris in front of a crowd they can't claim to be impartial (reason Boris is refusing to do the C4 debate as well)

 

I have watched it for ages and that's a shame if they are doing stuff like this as it does need to be publicised - one of the reasons I buy The Times is the World section is absolutely brilliant, such depth. 

[Guest MattP]

On the subject of World elections, how wonderful is this?

 

Now that's a swing.

 

 

[Tommo220]

26 minutes ago, MattP said:

On the subject of World elections, how wonderful is this?

 

Now that's a swing.

 

 

i'd guess not too wonderful for the people of Hong Kong.  The Chinese Government are hardly going to turn around and give Hong Kong complete independence. It's more likely that they'll move in en-mass and start cracking some skulls to get the disruption under control.

 

I works with some investors from Hong Kong and they are actually quite worried about it all - so much so that there is a lot of personal wealth flooding out of hong kong at the minute as they are so scared about what China will do.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Genuinely amazed this isn't a bigger story. 

 

If it was the Israelis doing this to Palestinians we would never be hearing the end of it.

 

The Chinese are now so powerful they get get away with anything. 

I reckon it's a mix of the aforementioned Chinese economic power and also a little apathy borne out of the idea that it's almost expected of the Chinese government to pull stuff like this now, as they never claimed to be saints in the way the Israelis/Americans/some other powers do.

 

In any case, it is bloody awful and I'm glad some light is being shed on the topic, even though the Chinese can simply deny everything and dare the world to do something about it and no-one will.

 

 

47 minutes ago, MattP said:

On the subject of World elections, how wonderful is this?

 

Now that's a swing.

 

 

It's good to see, but now it must be seen if it actually sticks. I hope that it does.

 

17 minutes ago, Tommo220 said:

i'd guess not too wonderful for the people of Hong Kong.  The Chinese Government are hardly going to turn around and give Hong Kong complete independence. It's more likely that they'll move in en-mass and start cracking some skulls to get the disruption under control.

 

I works with some investors from Hong Kong and they are actually quite worried about it all - so much so that there is a lot of personal wealth flooding out of hong kong at the minute as they are so scared about what China will do.

TBH I think if the Chinese were going to roll in with the heavy mob Tienanmen-style they would have done so already - there's no real reason for them to have held off. Of course they might yet, but the timing would be a bit puzzling in that case.

 

I wonder what is causing them to hesitate or choose a more nuanced solution to the problem - perhaps something we don't know about? The CCP are nothing if not pragmatic.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50534140

 

The Indestructible RBG.

[Tommo220]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I reckon it's a mix of the aforementioned Chinese economic power and also a little apathy borne out of the idea that it's almost expected of the Chinese government to pull stuff like this now, as they never claimed to be saints in the way the Israelis/Americans/some other powers do.

 

In any case, it is bloody awful and I'm glad some light is being shed on the topic, even though the Chinese can simply deny everything and dare the world to do something about it and no-one will.

 

 

It's good to see, but now it must be seen if it actually sticks. I hope that it does.

 

TBH I think if the Chinese were going to roll in with the heavy mob Tienanmen-style they would have done so already - there's no real reason for them to have held off. Of course they might yet, but the timing would be a bit puzzling in that case.

 

I wonder what is causing them to hesitate or choose a more nuanced solution to the problem - perhaps something we don't know about? The CCP are nothing if not pragmatic.

They have a lot more to lose now than they ever have i suppose.  they are a global power, with an economy that depends on being able to trade with everyone.  as soon as they start splitting wigs, they risk sanctions but you;d think their restraint has limits.  

 

As soon as the independence talk starts getting real traction, you'll see them act, meanwhile its all the problem of the Hong Kong government.

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Tommo220 said:

They have a lot more to lose now than they ever have i suppose.  they are a global power, with an economy that depends on being able to trade with everyone.  as soon as they start splitting wigs, they risk sanctions but you;d think their restraint has limits.  

 

As soon as the independence talk starts getting real traction, you'll see them act, meanwhile its all the problem of the Hong Kong government.

I get that, but I reckon that was true when this all started as well as now, and they had to figure that things would play out this way, so I'm still confused as to why they've not chosen to wade in yet when the overall outcome seems to be reasonably obvious.

 

Perhaps they thought they could keep a lid on it through political pressure and miscalculated.

 

WRT the HK economics, evidently there are a great many people there that think there is something more important than money at stake.

[MC Prussian]

In my daily rag today, on the same page:

 

(Top) "Orange lights in the fight against violence against women"

(Bottom) "Increase in binge-drinking among young women"

 

Well...

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50557876

 

Actually, the ambassador is totally right in that there's no moral equivalency between the way the US and China do things. After all, the Chinese keep all their brutality in-house whereas the US is very keen on exporting theirs - sorry, the term is "bringing democracy", isn't it? Wonder what the various citizens of the Middle East and Latin America think of it all...

 

But seriously, I can't take the affronted response of the ambassador vaguely seriously when the Chinese are doing now in terms of data mining what the US have been doing for decades.

 

 

[LiberalFox]

On 22/11/2019 at 22:55, String fellow said:

So Corbyn would cede the Chagos Islands to Mauritius. Why does that guy always bat against Britain? Look out Gibraltarians and Falklanders, you might soon both have to learn Spanish! (Perhaps he'd like France to have the Channel Islands as well.)

Non issue.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

Non issue.

Well, it is an issue, just not in the way that the OP described it - as detailed above.

[David Guiza]

5 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

In my daily rag today, on the same page:

 

(Top) "Orange lights in the fight against violence against women"

(Bottom) "Increase in binge-drinking among young women"

 

Well...

Well, what?

 

[LiberalFox]

On 25/11/2019 at 11:31, MattP said:

On the subject of World elections, how wonderful is this?

 

Now that's a swing.

 

 

It would more wonderful if they weren't still getting assimilated into a totalitarian communist state. 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

It would more wonderful if they weren't still getting assimilated into a totalitarian communist state. 

An interesting point: can a state that uses economic warfare as readily and adeptly as present-day China be really called communist any more?

 

(Genuine question as it happens, did the old-school USSR and Chinese states use economics as a weapon as much?)

[Countryfox]

This poor chap gives some helpful advice by sharing his sorry tale which may just stop a foxes talker from losing his leg !! ..
 

 

 

 

[LiberalFox]

54 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

An interesting point: can a state that uses economic warfare as readily and adeptly as present-day China be really called communist any more?

 

(Genuine question as it happens, did the old-school USSR and Chinese states use economics as a weapon as much?)

Of course it can. Unless you think that communist countries adhere to some mythical Marxist code where no money is used for anything. Maybe no country should be viewed as communist as the term refers to an ideal that has never been implemented. The political right probably like to portray China as capitalist because they need to attribute the recent Chinese economic growth to their own belief system. 

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

Non issue.

It isn’t, he took Russia’s side over the Salisbury poisonings for gods sake.  Bloke is a Britain hating ****.

[SecretPro]

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It isn’t, he took Russia’s side over the Salisbury poisonings for gods sake.  Bloke is a Britain hating ****.

The Tories are heavily funded by Russia - as we will find out when those Arron Banks leaks hurry the **** up and get published.

 

And the BBC is being funded and swayed by Russia - as we will find out from John Sweeney over the next few weeks.

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It isn’t, he took Russia’s side over the Salisbury poisonings for gods sake.  Bloke is a Britain hating ****.

 

On 23/11/2019 at 14:47, leicsmac said:

Yes, he wants the UK to abide by a UN resolution rather than flouting it and allowing Diego Garcia to be used as a torture black site by the friends across the pond:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50511847

 

Of course, the UN actually has zero teeth to enforce such things so the UK is free to ignore it if they like - but lets not pretend that such a situation is being continued by the UK for any other benefit than realpolitik or that it is in any way similar to Gibraltar or the Falklands.

...evidently I'm writing in invisible font.

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, SecretPro said:

The Tories are heavily funded by Russia - as we will find out when those Arron Banks leaks hurry the **** up and get published.

 

And the BBC is being funded and swayed by Russia - as we will find out from John Sweeney over the next few weeks.

Arron Banks likes to "joke" about the death of teenage girls he doesn't like, so that tells you a lot about his personal character in any case.

[leicsmac]

12 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

Of course it can. Unless you think that communist countries adhere to some mythical Marxist code where no money is used for anything. Maybe no country should be viewed as communist as the term refers to an ideal that has never been implemented. The political right probably like to portray China as capitalist because they need to attribute the recent Chinese economic growth to their own belief system. 

Fair to say, especially the last two sentences.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50435014

 

Utterly absorbing read on a crypto currency scam in a vast amount and how some technology has outstripped the law governing it...and how that can and has been exploited.

[LiberalFox]

15 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It isn’t, he took Russia’s side over the Salisbury poisonings for gods sake.  Bloke is a Britain hating ****.

How does the status of the Chagos Islands affect you, affect us? It's not even really British seeing as there's a US military base there. I didn't think Corbyn's actions over the Salisbury incident were great but "took Russia's side" isn't exactly true is it? Anyway not my party to defend.