Also In The News

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50292540

 

White supremacist up to white supremacist things as per - glad he got caught before he could do anything beyond talk.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50297029

 

Of course it was coming, but no less frustrating for all that - no attempt to renegotiate or supplant the agreement with a similar US-only focused one speaks volumes about exactly what this administration thinks of environmental protection. (The Paris Agreement being weak because it lacks real enforcing teeth notwithstanding.)

[Tommo220]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50292540

 

White supremacist up to white supremacist things as per - glad he got caught before he could do anything beyond talk.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50297029

 

Of course it was coming, but no less frustrating for all that - no attempt to renegotiate or supplant the agreement with a similar US-only focused one speaks volumes about exactly what this administration thinks of environmental protection. (The Paris Agreement being weak because it lacks real enforcing teeth notwithstanding.)

He doesn't deal in re-negotiation though does he - especially when its a subject that he sees as black and white.  Trump is playing up to his voter base - he knows that he needs to secure the same voters that he pulled in last time and to do that he needs to keep on with his "Trump digs Coal".  in reality, he's just mining for votes.

[urban.spaceman]

Third. World. Country. 
 

 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Tommo220 said:

He doesn't deal in re-negotiation though does he - especially when its a subject that he sees as black and white.  Trump is playing up to his voter base - he knows that he needs to secure the same voters that he pulled in last time and to do that he needs to keep on with his "Trump digs Coal".  in reality, he's just mining for votes.

You're absolutely right, sadly.

 

And tbh I don't think there's a single issue that this administration doesn't see as black and white. Enemies to be fought and subordinates to be ordered and controlled, never friends to be enjoyed.

 

(And ironically enough, the one issue that's as close to black and white as is possible in international politics - the one mentioned here - is the one they are foursquare on the wrong side of.)

.

31 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Third. World. Country. 
 

 

Don't worry, the fundies don't have a hold on this administration and Roe v Wade among other legislation is perfectly safe.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-global-fertility-crash/

 

On the topic of population growth...

 

(Ignoring the load of bollocks at the start about big population growth being brilliant because muh ekonomeee, it does give some pretty good information.)

Edited 6 November 2019 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/11/03/greensboro-massacre-white-nationalism-klan-229873

 

Lengthy but fascinating look at the events of Greensboro and how they reflect upon the making of the modern alt-right, a few decades later.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50327036

 

And the latest.

[Tommo220]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50327036

 

And the latest.

There was a time that such a revelation would have been massive news, now its just a minor story tucked away online only.

 

Pretty impressive to see how the perceived benchmark of standards from public officials (both in the US and here) has been eroded over the last few years, so much so that there really aren't many revelations now that are actually surprising any more!

[leicsmac]

41 minutes ago, Tommo220 said:

There was a time that such a revelation would have been massive news, now its just a minor story tucked away online only.

 

Pretty impressive to see how the perceived benchmark of standards from public officials (both in the US and here) has been eroded over the last few years, so much so that there really aren't many revelations now that are actually surprising any more!

Such seem to be the times we live in.

 

Hopefully not for too long, though.

[Milo]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Such seem to be the times we live in.

 

Hopefully not for too long, though.

If that's a reference to Trump, I think he'll be a more dangerous ex-President than he is a President, unfortunately   

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, Milo said:

If that's a reference to Trump, I think he'll be a more dangerous ex-President than he is a President, unfortunately   

Well, it's a reference to Trump, Bolsanaro, Erdogan, Duterte and the whole bunch of leaders now who are part of that erosion of benchmark standard for leaders.

 

But yes, I do agree, and personally my biggest fear is if he does lose in 2020 but refuses to leave. That could be dangerous.

[MC Prussian]

17 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50327036

 

And the latest.

Opinion politics, based on hearsay.

"He said, she said."

"Whistleblowers".

 

The desperation on the Democrats' side is palpable. Right now, the impeachment claims and early procedures are built on farcical and very weak grounds.

The Democrats need to be careful not to come out of this even more of a laughing stock than they already are.

[Milo]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Well, it's a reference to Trump, Bolsanaro, Erdogan, Duterte and the whole bunch of leaders now who are part of that erosion of benchmark standard for leaders.

 

But yes, I do agree, and personally my biggest fear is if he does lose in 2020 but refuses to leave. That could be dangerous.

Can you ever imagine a scenario where a democratic vote passes and the losing recipient refuses to leave?   

[leicsmac]

32 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Opinion politics, based on hearsay.

"He said, she said."

"Whistleblowers".

 

The desperation on the Democrats' side is palpable. Right now, the impeachment claims and early procedures are built on farcical and very weak grounds.

The Democrats need to be careful not to come out of this even more of a laughing stock than they already are.

...which is all equally your opinion, and perhaps should not be stated as fact by tone.

 

At this point, I'm just sitting and watching about how things are going to turn out - I'd certainly like to see Trump out on his ear either this way or in 2020 (much more possible) but I'm definitely not going to make predictions about the nature of the allegations and how it turns out, not after the last couple of years have made a mockery of such predictions.

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

...which is all equally your opinion, and perhaps should not be stated as fact by tone.

 

At this point, I'm just sitting and watching about how things are going to turn out - I'd certainly like to see Trump out on his ear either this way or in 2020 (much more possible) but I'm definitely not going to make predictions about the nature of the allegations and how it turns out, not after the last couple of years have made a mockery of such predictions.

Exactly.

Looking at the Democrats' recent track record in trying to rile up the crowd against a democratically elected president, this doesn't bode well.

It's a mere diversion from the main issues in the country.

 

The whole news reporting all things Trump considered right now mainly consists of regurgitated claptrap. The US are the worst, of course. But our media are catching up.

 

News used to mean something different back in the day, nowadays it's all about fractured pieces of gossip, tidbits, unsubstantiated rumors, soap opera-like reporting.

The most ridicule of allegation is dissected as if it really mattered.

Shame, really.

[MC Prussian]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Well, it's a reference to Trump, Bolsanaro, Erdogan, Duterte and the whole bunch of leaders now who are part of that erosion of benchmark standard for leaders.

 

But yes, I do agree, and personally my biggest fear is if he does lose in 2020 but refuses to leave. That could be dangerous.

He won't, because he can't.

And given the selection of weak Democrat candidates, the only way to get rid of Trump is by initiating a smear campaign of the lowest order. Which is what we're seeing right now.

I can't imagine any of these characterless people really measuring up to Trump in a debate, not the ones that are pushed by the people in charge at the party. No charisma, balls or proper policy on the Dems' side whatsoever. Sauf Gabbard - and Bernie is too old.

 

Deary me, I mean one can dislike Trump for no reason at all or for good personal reasons, but you going to extremes with your fearful predictions is something else.

Do you still manage to sleep at night or does Orange Man disturb you this much?

[Tommo220]

3 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

He won't, because he can't.

And given the selection of weak Democrat candidates, the only way to get rid of Trump is by initiating a smear campaign of the lowest order. Which is what we're seeing right now.

I can't imagine any of these characterless people really measuring up to Trump in a debate, not the ones that are pushed by the people in charge at the party. No charisma, balls or proper policy on the Dems' side whatsoever. Sauf Gabbard - and Bernie is too old.

 

Deary me, I mean one can dislike Trump for no reason at all or for good personal reasons, but you going to extremes with your fearful predictions is something else.

Do you still manage to sleep at night or does Orange Man disturb you this much?

is he really that much older than trump?

 

i had in my mind that they were of a similar age?

 

edit - 5 years between them so not too dissimilar.

Edited 8 November 2019 by Tommo220
sniffed in to trump

[Guest MattP]

4 hours ago, Milo said:

Can you ever imagine a scenario where a democratic vote passes and the losing recipient refuses to leave?   

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Exactly.

Looking at the Democrats' recent track record in trying to rile up the crowd against a democratically elected president, this doesn't bode well.

It's a mere diversion from the main issues in the country.

 

The whole news reporting all things Trump considered right now mainly consists of regurgitated claptrap. The US are the worst, of course. But our media are catching up.

 

News used to mean something different back in the day, nowadays it's all about fractured pieces of gossip, tidbits, unsubstantiated rumors, soap opera-like reporting.

The most ridicule of allegation is dissected as if it really mattered.

Shame, really.

...judging by that tirade I might ask you if the "librul media" disturb you as much as Trump disturbs me, as you did above.

 

4 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

He won't, because he can't.

And given the selection of weak Democrat candidates, the only way to get rid of Trump is by initiating a smear campaign of the lowest order. Which is what we're seeing right now.

I can't imagine any of these characterless people really measuring up to Trump in a debate, not the ones that are pushed by the people in charge at the party. No charisma, balls or proper policy on the Dems' side whatsoever. Sauf Gabbard - and Bernie is too old.

 

Deary me, I mean one can dislike Trump for no reason at all or for good personal reasons, but you going to extremes with your fearful predictions is something else.

Do you still manage to sleep at night or does Orange Man disturb you this much?

You're probably right about him stepping down should he lose - but that doesn't mean the alternative should be dismissed out of hand.

 

FWIW Trump himself doesn't bother me all that much, but rather the ideas that he's enabled and those who have carried them out. The unwillingness to back a (admittedly flawed) climate agreement with no plan to replacement because it'll somehow all be alright and what we do to the Earth won't have consequences. The en masse detainment and separation of families applying for asylum in a legal fashion. The attempts to roll back both womens and minority rights wending their way through the courts and backed at the very top of that process by two judges Trump himself rubber-stamped. The nutjobs spouting rhetoric that Trump or his administration have used on the Internet before walking into schools and supermarkets and opening fire.

 

And all of this is supposedly alright because the economy is doing a bit better.

 

So yes, the suffering of strangers disturbs me. If it doesn't do so to you or you would like to pretend that it simply doesn't exist (which I'm sure would come part and parcel of a reply to this asserting that none of the above is actually happening), then fair enough - I'll let the people who view these posts make their own judgement on that.

 

NB. Oh, and that such ideas are hardly limited to the US (hence why I mentioned other leaders in the OP) and that humanity as a whole seems to be regressing rather than progressing socially - yeah, that bothers me too.

Edited 8 November 2019 by leicsmac

[Tommo220]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50340989

 

 

Clearly the best way to topple a billionaire president is to find your own billionaire candidate...

 

 

 

 

[MC Prussian]

20 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...judging by that tirade I might ask you if the "librul media" disturb you as much as Trump disturbs me, as you did above.

 

You're probably right about him stepping down should he lose - but that doesn't mean the alternative should be dismissed out of hand.

 

FWIW Trump himself doesn't bother me all that much, but rather the ideas that he's enabled and those who have carried them out. The unwillingness to back a (admittedly flawed) climate agreement with no plan to replacement because it'll somehow all be alright and what we do to the Earth won't have consequences. The en masse detainment and separation of families applying for asylum in a legal fashion. The attempts to roll back both womens and minority rights wending their way through the courts and backed at the very top of that process by two judges Trump himself rubber-stamped. The nutjobs spouting rhetoric that Trump or his administration have used on the Internet before walking into schools and supermarkets and opening fire.

 

And all of this is supposedly alright because the economy is doing a bit better.

 

So yes, the suffering of strangers disturbs me. If it doesn't do so to you or you would like to pretend that it simply doesn't exist (which I'm sure would come part and parcel of a reply to this asserting that none of the above is actually happening), then fair enough - I'll let the people who view these posts make their own judgement on that.

 

NB. Oh, and that such ideas are hardly limited to the US (hence why I mentioned other leaders in the OP) and that humanity as a whole seems to be regressing rather than progressing socially - yeah, that bothers me too.

The liberal media in the US aren't liberal, they follow the money and the Democrats mostly (which is only logical). They bore me to death with the repetitious nonsense on air - Fox News also, but for other reasons. The news industry is suffering heavily, mainly in the public trust department.

Quality has gone down quite a bit, too many players diluting the pond. What we're exposed to today was hardly newsworthy some fifty, sixty years ago.

 

The Paris Treaty is flawed, but nobody says just because the US are pulling out (which will allegedly take a year FFS) that just because of this move, "somehow all be alright and what we do to the Earth won't have consequences". The vast majority of climate skeptics, even in the US, do believe we have an influence on climate, just not to the extent of what the media and hysteric climate movements want us make believe.

Obama started separating families at the border years before Trump came along. Many policies implemented today are the previous president's doing:

https://apnews.com/fdfbafe1f2784a759bc7c3a8e8ddbcab

 

Where's the "minority rights" issue coming from? Minorities in terms of gender? Well, that clearly is a majority or very pertinent issue... More important than eduction, infrastructure, public transportation, public health, peacekeeping, the economy, debt elimination? Don't kid us.

As for the two judges you're referring to, we all know what drama unfolded during the Kavanaugh hearings, initiated by a party that was hell-bent on destroying him with a fake claim.

 

And nutjobs have always existed in the US, long before Trump came along. Terrorists and fanatic idiots know no political allegiance or boundaries. May I remind you of the Waco Siege or Timothy McVeigh, for instance. Or the Boston marathon bomber. The 1993 WTC attack.

I think part of the rise in extremism (not just in the US) is the amount of information readily available on the internet, and then there's the Dark Web also.

And as the population keeps increasing, the probability of more people feeling isolated or left out increases alongside with it.

 

One of the biggest social issues in today's society is loneliness, potentially a byproduct of our modern-day individualism.

 

Edited 9 November 2019 by MC Prussian

[leicsmac]

9 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

The liberal media in the US aren't liberal, they follow the money and the Democrats mostly (which is only logical). They bore me to death with the repetitious nonsense on air - Fox News also, but for other reasons. The news industry is suffering heavily, mainly in the public trust department.

Quality has gone down quite a bit, too many players diluting the pond. What we're exposed to today was hardly newsworthy some fifty, sixty years ago.

 

The Paris Treaty is flawed, but nobody says just because the US are pulling out (which will allegedly take a year FFS) that just because of this move, "somehow all be alright and what we do to the Earth won't have consequences". The vast majority of climate skeptics, even in the US, do believe we have an influence on climate, just not to the extent of what the media and hysteric climate movements want us make believe.

Obama started separating families at the border years before Trump came along. Many policies implemented today are the previous president's doing:

https://apnews.com/fdfbafe1f2784a759bc7c3a8e8ddbcab

 

Where's the "minority rights" issue coming from? Minorities in terms of gender? Well, that clearly is a majority or very pertinent issue... More important than eduction, infrastructure, public transportation, public health, peacekeeping, the economy, debt elimination? Don't kid us.

As for the two judges you're referring to, we all know what drama unfolded during the Kavanaugh hearings, initiated by a party that was hell-bent on destroying him with a fake claim.

 

And nutjobs have always existed in the US, long before Trump came along. Terrorists and fanatic idiots know no political allegiance or boundaries. May I remind you of the Waco Siege or the Timothy McVeigh, for instance. Or the Boston marathon bomber. The 1993 WTC attack.

I think part of the rise in extremism (not just in the US) is the amount of information readily available on the internet, and then there's the Dark Web also.

And as the population keeps increasing, the probability of more people feeling isolated or left out increases alongside with it.

 

One of the biggest social issues in today's society is loneliness, potentially a byproduct of our modern-day individualism.

 

You'll get no disagreement from me on the polarisation of media outlets, but it doesn't bother me as much as you it seems because I think the bias is pretty well-balanced in terms of reach Stateside.

 

WRT the other topics, I was expecting the typical "it's not happening or if it is it isn't as much of a problem as you might think", so I'll expand briefly in response and leave it at that:

 

- given the lack of a plan to develop better green tech and control emissions in the wake of leaving the PA, I'd say at least the inference of "somehow all be alright and what we do to the Earth won't have consequences" is there. I'd love to know what,exactly, the Repubs are doing (or even proposing) at a national level (from what I can tell there's at least some work being done at local level at least) to address it all as well as lobbying other countries to get their own house in order.

 

- Snopes says "no" to the separating families under Obama, or at least a very great deal less than now: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-trump-child-separation-meme/

 

- of course minority rights aren't important to you, you're (likely) not a minority and not interested in the suffering of strangers.

 

- the process that Kauvanagh and Gorsuch went through to get to the SC is irrelevant at the present time (except for the fact that Trump endorsed them both) - what is relevant is their viewpoints and what legislation they could affect because of them.

 

- the amount of far-right attacks has risen since Trump took power (shown the links before), but I know that you'll deny that (muh "burden of proof") and the existence of any unified and united by ideology far-right network in the US at all (if past posts are any judge).

 

I do, however, agree that increased lack of socialisation is a problem that needs to be addressed. The Internet has changed a lot in terms of how humans socialise and social structures are still running to catch up really, as technology is advancing faster than human nature does. I don't think, however, that should deflect from the increasing problem that both tribalism and nationalism represent as people turn to them as a seeming response to that loneliness.

[StanSP]

Why has this money not been used??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-49131685

 

More ineptitude from the current government. 

 

 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50338236

 

Ah yes. I'm sure the sacrifices were deep, meaningful and of course relative to giving your life.

[Countryfox]

This front page item had me in tears ...  my god how this woman suffered ...  her torture !! .....    I hope she manages to get over this harrowing ordeal ..   my heart goes out to her ...   perhaps we could set up some sort of fund for her ...     truly shocking ...