Foxaholic ME Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 As a long standing Leicester supporter I was in a recent discussion whenit was argued that virtually all forwards purchased for big money at the time had flopped and all successes had been through the academy or cheap. Examples Dougan Rowley Jimmy Walsh Ken Keyworth Vardy Lineker Alan Smith Possible exceptions Alan Clark sold at a profit and possiblly Worthington but as he failed a medical at Liverpool so he could be classes as a cheap purchase
Nick Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 11 minutes ago, Foxaholic ME said: As a long standing Leicester supporter I was in a recent discussion whenit was argued that virtually all forwards purchased for big money at the time had flopped and all successes had been through the academy or cheap. Examples Dougan Rowley Jimmy Walsh Ken Keyworth Vardy Lineker Alan Smith Possible exceptions Alan Clark sold at a profit and possiblly Worthington but as he failed a medical at Liverpool so he could be classes as a cheap purchase I'm a bit lost here - which era are you on about?
fuchsntf Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 52 minutes ago, Foxaholic ME said: As a long standing Leicester supporter I was in a recent discussion whenit was argued that virtually all forwards purchased for big money at the time had flopped and all successes had been through the academy or cheap. Examples Dougan Rowley Jimmy Walsh Ken Keyworth Vardy Lineker Alan Smith Possible exceptions Alan Clark sold at a profit and possiblly Worthington but as he failed a medical at Liverpool so he could be classes as a cheap purchase Confused..? Who were the flops. I started supporting Leicester in the late 50s.. Other players...Jackie Sinclair Jimmy Goodfellow,S.LynexS.Guppy,Weller, Farrington ,Glover..Wingers in the day were also Forwards.. Plus Cheeseborough,Don Revie,Davie Gibson ,D.Hines.. I bet for period comparisons,stretching over the years 1950-now ,for money, transfer, performance & club service anything from 1- 10+ years service,we have very few flopps compared to club service & club achievements in holding top 2 divisions,one would have to grub very deep to find a handful of flops. One of the biggest IMO was A.Clarke,but we made money on his move. Even in relegation & dark years many, returned a top service to the club. How do you rate flops..compare Dougan, with A.Clarke,no matter how I feel,emotion & business side,both actually tried their best and were to a point,looking at our situation somewhat Successfull in their short time at city... Garland,another who grabbed the hearts of the city faithfull. It's not the loss or gaining of money,but for a fan,did they Win the terraces...!!! Claridge,J.Sinclair,Stringfellow,Howard, Melrose..F.Worthington,Birchenall,GuppyAlbrighton,King.. And 100s more....clarification on flops... Money,service,terasse support...fine lines,very fine lines..As a football supporter I can't go on these negative traits or rumblings,I look at the positives in all walks of life... I actually can't remember bigger '£' lack of service flops..as Slimani and partially Musa..But the club and playing coaching staff have to take a massive part of the blame....!!
Foxaholic ME Posted 30 July 2019 Author Posted 30 July 2019 26 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: Confused..? Who were the flops. I started supporting Leicester in the late 50s.. Other players...Jackie Sinclair Jimmy Goodfellow,S.LynexS.Guppy,Weller, Farrington ,Glover..Wingers in the day were also Forwards.. Plus Cheeseborough,Don Revie,Davie Gibson ,D.Hines.. I bet for period comparisons,stretching over the years 1950-now ,for money, transfer, performance & club service anything from 1- 10+ years service,we have very few flopps compared to club service & club achievements in holding top 2 divisions,one would have to grub very deep to find a handful of flops. One of the biggest IMO was A.Clarke,but we made money on his move. Even in relegation & dark years many, returned a top service to the club. How do you rate flops..compare Dougan, with A.Clarke,no matter how I feel,emotion & business side,both actually tried their best and were to a point,looking at our situation somewhat Successfull in their short time at city... Garland,another who grabbed the hearts of the city faithfull. It's not the loss or gaining of money,but for a fan,did they Win the terraces...!!! Claridge,J.Sinclair,Stringfellow,Howard, Melrose..F.Worthington,Birchenall,GuppyAlbrighton,King.. And 100s more....clarification on flops... Money,service,terasse support...fine lines,very fine lines..As a football supporter I can't go on these negative traits or rumblings,I look at the positives in all walks of life... I actually can't remember bigger '£' lack of service flops..as Slimani and partially Musa..But the club and playing coaching staff have to take a massive part of the blame....!! My mistakewas in not saying strikers . In any case how many of the ones you quoted were strikers and apart from Weller and Glover how many cost large amounts of money you are provingthe point. I thrilled to all those quoted and never in a lifetime would call them flops
Nick Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 I think you have a point - big money strikers of any success have been home grown and sold rather than purchased for huge amounts and gone on to be a massive success. I think though it’s the same for most clubs outside the top six because quality strikers are few and far between so unless you have commanding funds you get cast offs or develop your own.
Analysethis Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 It looks like this is a different type of Leicester side full of number 10s (Ayoze, Maddison, Tielemans) so I dont think the likes of Ayoze will have the typical pressure him to deliver 20 goals a season like someone like Slimani may have had. For me, if Ayoze can get 10-12 goals and is joined on a similar number by Maddison and Tielemans just behind, then the hope is Vardy will score 20+ with all these players now around who will create chances for him. Back to Ayoze, he definitely looks more like a link man than a main striker but in his brief pre-season friendlies I really like the the way he has a balance of going for goal as well as having his head up trying to create. Some of his little flicks and passes looked really impressive.
Christoph Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 4 minutes ago, Analysethis said: It looks like this is a different type of Leicester side full of number 10s (Ayoze, Maddison, Tielemans) so I dont think the likes of Ayoze will have the typical pressure him to deliver 20 goals a season like someone like Slimani may have had. For me, if Ayoze can get 10-12 goals and is joined on a similar number by Maddison and Tielemans just behind, then the hope is Vardy will score 20+ with all these players now around who will create chances for him. Back to Ayoze, he definitely looks more like a link man than a main striker but in his brief pre-season friendlies I really like the the way he has a balance of going for goal as well as having his head up trying to create. Some of his little flicks and passes looked really impressive. I agree but you do have to worry what might happen to us if Vardy does get injured. It's hard to think of any other player who can produce the goals as the main striker like he can. Hopefully Perez can step up to the plate if he has to be the main striker with Tielemans or Maddison behind.
Analysethis Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 Just now, Christoph said: I agree but you do have to worry what might happen to us if Vardy does get injured. It's hard to think of any other player who can produce the goals as the main striker like he can. Hopefully Perez can step up to the plate if he has to be the main striker with Tielemans or Maddison behind. I think the same can be said for virtually every side in the division regarding their main striker getting injured. None of them look the same whether its Kane or Aguero. The only thing that looks really good for us his season and we dabbled a bit with it last season is we finally have some goals and creativity from midfield in Tielemans. We then see Maddison getting better and looks set for 10 goals plus for us IMO. Ayoze is another addition that gives us more goals and creativity. It seems the flying wingers have been binned for now and its about getting closer to Vardy and get creative which to be honest is something I am really looking forward to seeing this season.
StriderHiryu Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 Perez is an interesting one because his price is definitely an expensive for what he is. But one thing I will say is that in each of his games he's played so far, he's had multiple good scoring chances, and has scored one. In his first game he looked fantastic, combining with everyone. In the second he looked a more peripheral (though this was true of everyone due to the unfamiliarity in playing the diamond formation) but even then almost scored a goal that Tielemans eventually did. We scored 51 goals last season. If Perez gets us another 10 on top of that, would 61 goals be good enough for 7th? I suspect it would be. He feels like a bit of a "moneyball" signing to me, if you've ever seen that film. We want players who will increase the number of points we end the season with, and buying goals is one of the best ways to do that. Will he break the mould? I'm not sure, because I don't think he will be a smash hit signing. But I think he will end up being solid and if he's a regular start, I think he'll get 10 goals, possibly more.
Lesta2014 Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 7 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said: Perez is an interesting one because his price is definitely an expensive for what he is. But one thing I will say is that in each of his games he's played so far, he's had multiple good scoring chances, and has scored one. In his first game he looked fantastic, combining with everyone. In the second he looked a more peripheral (though this was true of everyone due to the unfamiliarity in playing the diamond formation) but even then almost scored a goal that Tielemans eventually did. We scored 51 goals last season. If Perez gets us another 10 on top of that, would 61 goals be good enough for 7th? I suspect it would be. He feels like a bit of a "moneyball" signing to me, if you've ever seen that film. We want players who will increase the number of points we end the season with, and buying goals is one of the best ways to do that. Will he break the mould? I'm not sure, because I don't think he will be a smash hit signing. But I think he will end up being solid and if he's a regular start, I think he'll get 10 goals, possibly more. Add in tielmans for a full season takes us towards 70 goals for the season
Ric Flair Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 3 minutes ago, Lesta2014 said: Add in tielmans for a full season takes us towards 70 goals for the season Maddison, Tielemans, Perez and Barnes could quite easily score and assist 50 goals between them. It's looking much healthier than the prospect we faced when we sold Mahrez.
StriderHiryu Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 4 minutes ago, Lesta2014 said: Add in tielmans for a full season takes us towards 70 goals for the season Just now, Ric Flair said: Maddison, Tielemans, Perez and Barnes could quite easily score and assist 50 goals between them. It's looking much healthier than the prospect we faced when we sold Mahrez. It's certainly possible! But it worries me that in preseason we've not been clinical enough. There has been excellent team play and some of our goals from a team perspective brilliant, but we aren't thrashing teams, and for me goals scored is what will define our season assuming Maguire stays. We might already have the personnel to do it, but we need the team to click just a little bit more. The signs are promising because learning a new style of play does not happen overnight, and for me there has already been a notable step change compared to when Rodgers first took over. But it's the small details that will define us. If Barnes in particular scored just half the number of chances he seems to get every game, we'd probably have another 10!
Ric Flair Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 14 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said: It's certainly possible! But it worries me that in preseason we've not been clinical enough. There has been excellent team play and some of our goals from a team perspective brilliant, but we aren't thrashing teams, and for me goals scored is what will define our season assuming Maguire stays. We might already have the personnel to do it, but we need the team to click just a little bit more. The signs are promising because learning a new style of play does not happen overnight, and for me there has already been a notable step change compared to when Rodgers first took over. But it's the small details that will define us. If Barnes in particular scored just half the number of chances he seems to get every game, we'd probably have another 10! I'm not in any way worried about the lack of goals in pre-season, we haven't suddenly become less potent than we were under Rodgers at the back end of last season. We will only get better what with Tielemans on a permanent, Perez signing and Barnes and/or Albrighton getting more and more chances in and around the box. I'd love another winger or attacking midfielder with end product, it would ease any fears that Barnes doesn't hit the heights expected or Albrighton can't add goals to his game but the signs are there that there will be the environment and style of play that will bring that for these players. Ricardo is going to go bang again this season too, and maybe just maybe Chilwell continues to improve. If Iheanacho maintains confidence and feels an integral team player then they'll be queuing up.
Nick Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said: Perez is an interesting one because his price is definitely an expensive for what he is. But one thing I will say is that in each of his games he's played so far, he's had multiple good scoring chances, and has scored one. In his first game he looked fantastic, combining with everyone. In the second he looked a more peripheral (though this was true of everyone due to the unfamiliarity in playing the diamond formation) but even then almost scored a goal that Tielemans eventually did. We scored 51 goals last season. If Perez gets us another 10 on top of that, would 61 goals be good enough for 7th? I suspect it would be. He feels like a bit of a "moneyball" signing to me, if you've ever seen that film. We want players who will increase the number of points we end the season with, and buying goals is one of the best ways to do that. Will he break the mould? I'm not sure, because I don't think he will be a smash hit signing. But I think he will end up being solid and if he's a regular start, I think he'll get 10 goals, possibly more. We will score a lot more than 51 this season - playing attacking football for a whole season under Rodgers. I reckon it’ll be around the 70 mark.
Lambert09 Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 I mean 30 mill now is probably close to what 1 mill was to us when we paid for Vardy ? We spent a 6th of our transfer budget on vards... currently looks like Perez is about 1/3 of ours spent with rumours of us spending much more.... its all relative is my point. I ignore all this chat about record signings now as the market is so hugely inflated
reynard Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 3 hours ago, Swan Lesta said: I'm a bit lost here - which era are you on about? He's on about all time and he's right to an extent. Roger Davies big signing in the 70s flop Tommy English swopped for Jim Melrose flop Akinbiyi at 5m the record signing flop Jermaine Beckford signed last minute for 2million flop Slimani 28 million flop Iheanacho 25 million potential flop Set that against Lineker through academy Alan Smith signed for 15k Vardy for 1 million Steve Claridge 1 million All successes. A recurring theme that many of our top signings have not worked out as well as our supposed bargains and this is not just a recent phenomenon.
Gerard Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 I loved the Tielemans and Justin signings but for me the jury is still out on Perez. I would have preferred a much more dynamic player but we'll see how he goes. I thought we were one or two quality wide players away from being a side that could get top four and I think Perez is probably not a big enough upgrade. In an ideal world I would have swapped Ryan Fraser for Gray and blown the bank on Pepe.
LinekersApples Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 Perez is very classy. He was expensive, but we became aware of his release clause, knew that he was happy to move as a result of Rafa going (agent was shring this info) and for want of a better phrase...... we are rich as ****. We had to act quickly as others were sniffing. I have every faith he will be a huge success and there are 2 other key reasons why. We've never had 3 of the same ilk as we do now (Maddison, Perez, Tielemans) and players like that help one another to be a success. I'm really excited to watch them grow this year.
StriderHiryu Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 1 hour ago, Ric Flair said: I'm not in any way worried about the lack of goals in pre-season, we haven't suddenly become less potent than we were under Rodgers at the back end of last season. We will only get better what with Tielemans on a permanent, Perez signing and Barnes and/or Albrighton getting more and more chances in and around the box. I'd love another winger or attacking midfielder with end product, it would ease any fears that Barnes doesn't hit the heights expected or Albrighton can't add goals to his game but the signs are there that there will be the environment and style of play that will bring that for these players. Ricardo is going to go bang again this season too, and maybe just maybe Chilwell continues to improve. If Iheanacho maintains confidence and feels an integral team player then they'll be queuing up. 53 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: We will score a lot more than 51 this season - playing attacking football for a whole season under Rodgers. I reckon it’ll be around the 70 mark. Obviously I hope you guys are right! The signs are all there... let's enjoy that Albrighton goal again in all it's glory. Perez wins the ball, plays it to Ricardo, to Tielemans, exquisite through the lines through ball to Ricardo, fantastic cross, coll as you like chest control and wallop! Fantastic team move! The most encouraging thing about this goal is that it's great play from 4 separate players. They all play their part!
Ric Flair Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 Just now, StriderHiryu said: Obviously I hope you guys are right! The signs are all there... let's enjoy that Albrighton goal again in all it's glory. Perez wins the ball, plays it to Ricardo, to Tielemans, exquisite through the lines through ball to Ricardo, fantastic cross, coll as you like chest control and wallop! Fantastic team move! The most encouraging thing about this goal is that it's great play from 4 separate players. They all play their part! The most encouraging thing about it mate, isn't the intricate passing and movement but just look how many players are in the box when it comes in to Albrighton? Compare that to the struggles we had under Puel for two thirds of last season and it's certainly looking positive for next season.
Mark 'expert' Lawrenson Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 59 minutes ago, reynard said: He's on about all time and he's right to an extent. Roger Davies big signing in the 70s flop Tommy English swopped for Jim Melrose flop Akinbiyi at 5m the record signing flop Jermaine Beckford signed last minute for 2million flop Slimani 28 million flop Iheanacho 25 million potential flop Set that against Lineker through academy Alan Smith signed for 15k Vardy for 1 million Steve Claridge 1 million All successes. A recurring theme that many of our top signings have not worked out as well as our supposed bargains and this is not just a recent phenomenon. Add Heskey, Joachim and Kitson to the second list
fuchsntf Posted 30 July 2019 Posted 30 July 2019 2 hours ago, Ric Flair said: Maddison, Tielemans, Perez and Barnes could quite easily score and assist 50 goals between them. It's looking much healthier than the prospect we faced when we sold Mahrez. I believe,this is what is giving us that hope!!! They all look that they will increase our conversion rate. So far to be fair to the neutral-world..The potential is there,the fans drepidation,ambition,dreams & fears,still have to be earnt by our new looking squad,with an exciting manager behind them..we are simply anticipating they will realise our crazy,bias hope ,and bum tightening expectations... My happy place... Vardy ..18+ Perez....10-12+ Nacho...,8-10+ Wingbacks...7-10+ between them Maddison..8-12+ Tielemans 8-10+ Other front5...5-6 between them. Defenders..7-12,between them.. That is still an high call. Our defence can help us to ,close out 2-1../1-0 games,that if we click at the back,we can balance out our goal-tally needs!! carrying that pesky flag on down days..
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