Brexit!

[Arriba Los Zorros]

No matter what corruption or shenanigans, comes to light, Leavers gonna Leave - because they can't bear to be proved wrong, hurts their fragile egos.

 

Put it to another referendum, put your money where you mouth is.

[Finnaldo]

Law of the land trumps any silly policy. Great day for Britain regardless of the outcome of Brexit. You should never be held unaccountable for trying to bypass Parliament.

[Jon the Hat]

4 minutes ago, Steven said:

PM frustrated parliament. He lied to the people. He lied to Parliament. He lied to the Queen. Supreme Court found he broke the law. He's not fit to be Prime Minister! Disgraceful!

Erm, did you read the judgment?  Even Domonic Grieve doesn;t believe what you just wrote.

 

Its a ****ing week!  He suspended parliament for a week longer than normal at this time of year.  

[danfox76]

2 minutes ago, Tommo220 said:

When does anything you ever vote for ever get delivered!? 

 

I voted for Free tuition fees from the Lib Dems a few years ago - still waiting for that to be delivered as well.

 

 

yep students got ****ed over by the lib-dems.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

No matter what corruption or shenanigans, comes to light, Leavers gonna Leave - because they can't bear to be proved wrong, hurts their fragile egos.

 

Put it to another referendum, put your money where you mouth is.

Absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing has happened to prove leavers wrong.  If anything I am more convinced that the EU is a bloody nightmare and we must leave it as soon as we can.

[Dames]

5 minutes ago, danfox76 said:

its not a phrase its truth.. there was a vote.. there was a result.. that result has not been delivered.. until the result is delivered democracy is out the window.. whats the point in voting on anything if the result isn't delivered? the only people who benefit from this whole thing is remainers.. who will happily see democracy go out the window as long as they get their way.

No I believe that is the leave side of the argument.

 

Yes the hardcore remainers for the most part have been whinge bags and some remain MPs have tried to frustrate the process at every turn but if the hardcore leave MPs didn't rebel on Mays deal then we would be out of the EU right now. That is democracy for you, that is our democracy, we vote in MPs who then in turn try their best to reflect our views in Parliament. What you absolutely cannot do is go against that Democracy which Johnson has tried to do by denying Parliament the right to sit. He broke the law, even if it was to uphold the 'will of the people' he broke the law and he cannot do that, it sets a dangerous precedent - If it were Corbyn you'd be demanding his head.

 

 

 

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, danfox76 said:

yep students got ****ed over by the lib-dems.

 

And the entire country has been fvcked over since 2015 by the Tories and their total lack of preparation for Brexit.

[Benji]

4 minutes ago, danfox76 said:

This ^^ we left back in march

What’s the problem then?  Sounds like you already have what you want.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing has happened to prove leavers wrong.  If anything I am more convinced that the EU is a bloody nightmare and we must leave it as soon as we can.

To be fair about this, even staunchly Leave voters have got to admit a hell of a lot has changed since the last referendum, and a lot more people now actually understand a lot more of the pros and cons than ever before. We are a much more informed public than in 2016.

 

Put it to another referendum, should the majority vote leave again, nobody in the country will be able to oppose it, lets get a deal and GTFO.

 

But first prove it's still the will of the people which I strongly doubt is now the case.

Edited 24 September 2019 by Arriba Los Zorros

[Jon the Hat]

7 minutes ago, Steven said:

PM frustrated parliament. He lied to the people. He lied to Parliament. He lied to the Queen. Supreme Court found he broke the law. He's not fit to be Prime Minister! Disgraceful!

Is that the Parliament which then passed a law requiring him to request an article 50 extension to avoid no deal brexit, and then buggered off to conference?  How is it Frustrated exactly?

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Do you understand the difference between a single issue referendum and a general election?  If not, do please go and do some reading before you comment

You're absolutely correct: Things change; new events take place; new facts come to light; people change their mind on previous decisions when they realise it's no longer in the country's best interests. 

[Tommo220]

9 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Do you understand the difference between a single issue referendum and a general election?  If not, do please go and do some reading before you comment

do you understand the term "advisory"? if not, do please go and do some reading before you comment 

Edited 24 September 2019 by Tommo220

[Finnaldo]

 

[Alf Bentley]

On 18/09/2019 at 00:20, Alf Bentley said:

 

Parliament had a Remain majority before the referendum, but it's not honest at all to say that is the case now. There might be a majority who still think Remain would be better, but the vast majority of MPs have voted for one or other sort of Brexit.....they just cannot agree on what SORT of Brexit is acceptable between Soft Brexit options, Hard Brexit deal / May's Deal, No Deal etc.

 

Here are the results of the "indicative votes": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47779783

- 273 MPs (mainly Labour) voted for a Brexit Customs Union proposal from Ken Clarke;

- 261 MPs (mainly Labour & SNP) voted for a Brexit Common Market proposal from Nick Boles;

- 280 MPs (mainly Labour, SNP & Lib Dem) voted to accept the Withdrawal Agreement if it was put to a second referendum

.....That's on top of the 286 MPs (mainly Tories - different MPs from above) who voted to accept May's Deal at the 3rd time of asking.

So, in fact, the vast majority of MPs have voted for an actual or hypothetical Brexit deal......but for different ones.

 

Almost the only MPs who have NEVER voted for a Brexit deal are.....the ERG & DUP MPs, holding out for a No Deal or a Unicorn Brexit (May's Deal with no backstop, no alternative to backstop, yet no hard border)

 

Parliament has been unable to reach an agreement because "Leave" was never properly defined - and MPs prefer all sorts of different terms of exit, none of them invalid.

The majority of the vote IS represented because the vast majority of MPs have been ready to support versions of Brexit.....but different ones, and no compromise has been secured.

 

 

4 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Maybe the supreme court should consider the legality of parliament trying to stop Brexit! 

 

I apologise for self-quoting, but cannot be arsed to keep making the same point. See response above.

 

Brexit has been delayed due to a lack of consensus over terms of exit. It has not been cancelled. It is still a live issue and ongoing tussle......which should be decided by democratic means.

 

This ruling was about democracy, not about deciding Brexit. If Parliament approves a deal or No Deal, Brexit happens.

If the October deadline is not extended by UK not requesting it or EU refusing request), then No Deal at Halloween remains the default position.

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

To be fair about this, even staunchly Leave voters have got to admit a hell of a lot has changed since the last referendum, and a lot more people now actually understand a lot more of the pros and cons before.

 

Put it to another referendum, should the majority vote leave again, nobody in the country will be able to oppose it, lets get a deal and GTFO.

 

But first prove it's still the will of the people which I strongly doubt is now the case.

I am a remainer, but that's bollocks and you know it is. A second referendum would be chaos.

 

Brexit will never please everyone, but the country voted to leave and so we should.

[danfox76]

7 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

No matter what corruption or shenanigans, comes to light, Leavers gonna Leave - because they can't bear to be proved wrong, hurts their fragile egos.

 

Put it to another referendum, put your money where you mouth is.

keep voting until the result is remain you mean? again how is that democratic?

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Tommo220 said:

do you understand the difference between advisory and legally binding? if not, do please go and do some reading before you comment 

Yes yes I do. I also no that no one at all suggested that the referendum result would not be delivered.  It's almost like the Government sent everyone a leaflet saying "WE WILL IMPLEMENT WHAT YOU DECIDE"

[lgfualol]

 

Just now, danfox76 said:

keep voting until the result is remain you mean? again how is that democratic?

It doesn't sound very democratic but it sounds better than ****ing the country up over bendy bananas and bus slogans.

[danfox76]

5 minutes ago, Dames said:

No I believe that is the leave side of the argument.

 

Yes the hardcore remainers for the most part have been whinge bags and some remain MPs have tried to frustrate the process at every turn but if the hardcore leave MPs didn't rebel on Mays deal then we would be out of the EU right now. That is democracy for you, that is our democracy, we vote in MPs who then in turn try their best to reflect our views in Parliament. What you absolutely cannot do is go against that Democracy which Johnson has tried to do by denying Parliament the right to sit. He broke the law, even if it was to uphold the 'will of the people' he broke the law and he cannot do that, it sets a dangerous precedent - If it were Corbyn you'd be demanding his head.

 

 

 

you believe wrong then.. the fact that remainers will not except the result is proof they are again democracy end of.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

3 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I am a remainer, but that's bollocks and you know it is. A second referendum would be chaos.

 

Brexit will never please everyone, but the country voted to leave and so we should.

No, I don't agree at all and wouldn't say it if I thought it was bollocks! What you said could only be true if it was a landslide to Leave and that was not the case at all.

 

So much has changed in 3 years,and people are now so much more informed, before it was an ideological sort of vote, now we actually know a lot more about the reality of Leave/Remain - should go back to the people now.

 

 

 

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, danfox76 said:

you believe wrong then.. the fact that remainers will not except the result is proof they are again democracy end of.

I do in fact believe in, 'again democracy'

[Tommo220]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

Yes yes I do. I also no that no one at all suggested that the referendum result would not be delivered.  It's almost like the Government sent everyone a leaflet saying "WE WILL IMPLEMENT WHAT YOU DECIDE"

indeed, they did.  But there were lies on both sides.  Why should the government be held to the letter of their campaign when the majority of the arguments to leave have been debunked along the way?

 

 

'We will implement what you decide" is right up there with "an extra £350m a week" or the mythical 70million Turks that would be coming to the UK when they joined the EU.

 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

.

Edited 24 September 2019 by Arriba Los Zorros

[Dames]

Just now, danfox76 said:

you believe wrong then.. the fact that remainers will not except the result is proof they are again democracy end of.

Another tired old cliche when you have nothing intelligent to add to the argument you fire off some platitudes and end it with 'End of'.

 

Johnson lied to the Queen and therefore unlawfully acted - No remain MP has yet to unlawfully act. They have frustrated the process yes but within their democratic rights as MPs. For the most part many remain voting MPs will accept the result of the referendum but they will not accept the danger that a No Deal exit entails - A pro leave Governments own documents even outline this, its not project fear its just facts.

[lgfualol]

Brexiters: "We demand sovereignty!"

Also Brexiters: "Not that much sovereignty!"