Brexit!

[danfox76]

the only real problem is the irish border.. but even then why should it be on the uk to sort out? leave and let the e.u. sort out their side of the border.. lets put it on them.

[Jon the Hat]

7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

It's remarkable that we're all angry at the same thing - the betrayal of the British public - but we can't agree on what the betrayal is.  For some it's lying to the nation and trying to force the most extreme, harmful version of Brexit, for the rest it's lying to the nation and trying to prevent the most extreme, harmful Brexit.

And for other's it is the bullshit that no deal (or Brexit, to give it its proper name) is some sort of Armageddon.

[RoboFox]

.

Edited 24 September 2019 by RoboFox

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

And for other's it is the bullshit that no deal (or Brexit, to give it its proper name) is some sort of Armageddon.

That's what I said.

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, danfox76 said:

the only real problem is the irish border.. but even then why should it be on the uk to sort out? leave and let the e.u. sort out their side of the border.. lets put it on them.

 

IRA would love that.

[Dames]

1 minute ago, danfox76 said:

all of which can be sourced outside the eu.. the world is a lot bigger than the eu.. they've had years to sort these things out.. and should not be stopping the result from happening.. for example the U.S. has already offered to supply medicines.

 

again fear-mongering and stalling tactics.. i don't buy into that bullshit

And who do you think will pay for all this? Because it certainly won't be given away for free.

 

All the current trade deals we have are because of the EU, Britain has spent the last 40 odd years leaving this stuff to the EU without really getting involved. Yes we can source all this stuff from outside of the EU and from even inside of the EU but it will be a lot more expensive than it was previously and like i've just said, who will pay for it? Us.

 

You are living in a fantasy if you think everything is magically going to be all right. At least in the short to medium term we are going to have to pay more with a currency that is worth less, which as I keep saying will come out of our pockets and nobody elses.

 

There probably will be upsides to Brexit, but not for 10 years as a minimum, and if you want to quote many leavers, it may even be up to 50.

[danfox76]

21 minutes ago, Dames said:

The last 3 years for starters and how difficult it has been to obtain a deal, more focus on a hard border in Ireland which threatens the peace.

 

We now know the deal we have on offer, how bad it truly is. We also know the potential ramifications of no deal thanks to Operation Yellowhammer.

 

More than likely a new referendum would be between No Deal and Remain and if No Deal were to win then it would truly reflect the will of the people. As of right now, we cannot be 100% certain about that.

so if we vote leave again do we stall for another 3 years and hope something else will change.. and so on and so on?

[Alf Bentley]

2 minutes ago, Dames said:

He's a clever bloke is Nigel.

 

This comment seems as if he's putting himself against the Tories during an Election campaign and he can campaign on the benefit of a clean, law abiding Brexit. That has the potential to get him and the Brexit party a fair few seats.

 

Indeed. He's no fool and doubtless has some ulterior motives. I'm sure these events potentially help him, if we do end up with a pre-Brexit election.

 

Whether he'd want to stand everywhere against the Tories, I'm dubious, as it obviously runs the risk of splitting the Leave vote and electing another Remain/Soft Brexit parliament.

By all accounts, he and Cummings loath one another, so getting rid of Cummings might ease his way to an electoral pact with the Tories....maybe standing in Labour Leave seats and against Tory Remainers....

[Jon the Hat]

10 minutes ago, Dames said:

Lack of food, lack of fuel, lack of medicine, potential lack of clean water as the chemical to clean our water is imported from guess where... the EU and this is just for starters. I mean realistically most of these dangers can be avoided by correct planning but as it has been proven, this Government and the ones that came before it do not do correct planning.

 

The kind of Brexit deal that benefits me personally is none, either way life is about to get more expensive, as proven every time the pound drops in value the closer we get to Brexit. But if any kind of Brexit were to be done it would need to minimize the impacts of all of the above and everything else outlined in the Yellowhammer document.

 

Its not fear mongering when it is an official document from a pro-leave Government. You cant keep writing these things off as 'Project Fear' when it doesn't suit your fairy tale narrative. There is going to be downsides to Brexit, potentially major downsides before we even start seeing some of the upsides and you have to accept that the view of some people in this country is that they would rather not have to risk those downsides.

 

Its not as simple as 'Leave won, end of'.

I am at a loss, a complete loss as to why you or anyone should think that we would have a lack of food, fuel or medicine.  Honesty, this week we are repatriating 150,000 stranded people from all over the place with no notice, and you think we can't ship some medicines.  Jesus Christ.

[danfox76]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

And for other's it is the bullshit that no deal (or Brexit, to give it its proper name) is some sort of Armageddon.

this ^^

[Dames]

Just now, danfox76 said:

so if we vote leave again do we stall for another 3 years and hope something else will change.. and so on and so on?

As i've mentioned previously if there is another vote and No Deal is the option things become a lot simpler. It has a mandate it currently might not have.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Dames said:

As i've mentioned previously if there is another vote and No Deal is the option things become a lot simpler. It has a mandate it currently might not have.

You know damn well the only reason remainers want a second vote is they think they have a chance of stopping Brexit.  They would continue to do anything to stop Brexit after a second defeat, find another pile of lame excuses as to why they didn't really lose, why those who beat them are stupid, or racist or ill informed, and so they don't count.

[Dames]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

I am at a loss, a complete loss as to why you or anyone should think that we would have a lack of food, fuel or medicine.  Honesty, this week we are repatriating 150,000 stranded people from all over the place with no notice, and you think we can't ship some medicines.  Jesus Christ.

You are just so far down the rabbit hole that you refuse to accept that there will be any downside to Brexit at all. You are honestly deluded.

 

A Pro-Brexit Governments own 'Reasonable' Worst Case scenario outlined the potential shortages in their official documents. I don't know how many times I have to state this fact.

 

Either way, its not going to come to us for free, its going to cost more and cost more with a currency that will be worth significantly less than it was before.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

One of the easiest ways to avoid being proved wrong is for us to remain. 

Yes indeed. Although another referendum would legitimise the decision to remain. And also give the people the chance to say if they still want to Leave.

 

Although we'd of course have leavers moaning about 2016 being betrayed when inevitably people choose to Remain - and couldn't blame them to be honest, but to stick doggedly to the mantra of Leave means Leave is foolhardy given all the past 3 years have brought.

 

[SMX11]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

I am at a loss, a complete loss as to why you or anyone should think that we would have a lack of food, fuel or medicine.  Honesty, this week we are repatriating 150,000 stranded people from all over the place with no notice, and you think we can't ship some medicines.  Jesus Christ.

This. They just don't want to leave and will do anything to stop it, including demolishing the constitution. 

[danfox76]

5 minutes ago, Dames said:

And who do you think will pay for all this? Because it certainly won't be given away for free.

 

All the current trade deals we have are because of the EU, Britain has spent the last 40 odd years leaving this stuff to the EU without really getting involved. Yes we can source all this stuff from outside of the EU and from even inside of the EU but it will be a lot more expensive than it was previously and like i've just said, who will pay for it? Us.

 

You are living in a fantasy if you think everything is magically going to be all right. At least in the short to medium term we are going to have to pay more with a currency that is worth less, which as I keep saying will come out of our pockets and nobody elses.

 

There probably will be upsides to Brexit, but not for 10 years as a minimum, and if you want to quote many leavers, it may even be up to 50.

same people who pay now.. you are the one living in a fear-mongered fantasy.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

You know damn well the only reason remainers want a second vote is they think they have a chance of stopping Brexit.  They would continue to do anything to stop Brexit after a second defeat, find another pile of lame excuses as to why they didn't really lose, why those who beat them are stupid, or racist or ill informed, and so they don't count.

Not true. If Leave wins out in a 2nd referendum, we will leave, possibly with no deal, and justifiably so, there will be no leg to stand on for staying.

 

But you know full well a 2nd referendum will see us remain, which is why pro-leavers are so keen to avoid it.

[Dames]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

You know damn well the only reason remainers want a second vote is they think they have a chance of stopping Brexit.  They would continue to do anything to stop Brexit after a second defeat, find another pile of lame excuses as to why they didn't really lose, why those who beat them are stupid, or racist or ill informed, and so they don't count.

They think they are doing whats best for the country. It is their view and they are entitled to it. We don't live in a dictatorship, its part and parcel of a democracy.

 

Just like your view is that Brexit is whats best, you are entitled to it.

 

As i've mentioned my opinion is that I don't believe that No Deal has enough of a mandate so why don't we find out, if you're so confident it should be quite simple - put it back to the people. If No Deal really is the will then we go head with it and thats the end of it.

 

[Rain King]

I feel really conflicted. I used to really like Louis Theroux but repeated visits to this thread are beginning to make me despise him through no fault of his own. 

Edited 24 September 2019 by pds

[The Horse's Mouth]

This is just taking the piss now, GIVE US A GENERAL ELECTION. If the opposition are scared of losing a majority to this shambolic reign so far then they're not fit for the job. We are only going to continue going sideways, we cant negotiate a better deal with the EU because they wont give in to BoJos demands because he doesn't have the majority to get it through. We're wasting time, fighting over proroguing when ultimately it's a minor point, those 3 days aren't going to change the situation at all its just a way to shoot ammo at boris without having to commit to putting power on the line.

[Dames]

Just now, danfox76 said:

same people who pay now.. you are the one living in a fear-mongered fantasy.

Its not a fear mongered fantasy. Everything I've said is perfectly reasonable, I'm not claiming the world will crumble I just don't want to pay more for things now than I already do.

 

I'm not a patriotic nut job who thinks Brexit is worth it at any cost, for me there is a cost and that cost is that I would rather not be worse off now for a decision that was not of my own making. I'm entitled to that view no matter how much the Brexit side of the argument want to suppress that view and press ahead.

[danfox76]

4 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Yes indeed. Although another referendum would legitimise the decision to remain. And also give the people the chance to say if they still want to Leave.

 

Although we'd of course have leavers moaning about 2016 being betrayed when inevitably people choose to Remain - and couldn't blame them to be honest, but to stick doggedly to the mantra of Leave means Leave is foolhardy given all the past 3 years have brought.

 

there was no decision to remain we voted leave.. accept it or maybe move to a communist country.. i have a feeling you'd fit in.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 minute ago, danfox76 said:

there was no decision to remain we voted leave.. accept it or maybe move to a communist country.. i have a feeling you'd fit in.

try reading the quote Im replying to rather than taking the reply in isolation, thats why Foxestalk uses the quote function. 

[danfox76]

4 minutes ago, Dames said:

They think they are doing whats best for the country. It is their view and they are entitled to it. We don't live in a dictatorship, its part and parcel of a democracy.

 

Just like your view is that Brexit is whats best, you are entitled to it.

 

As i've mentioned my opinion is that I don't believe that No Deal has enough of a mandate so why don't we find out, if you're so confident it should be quite simple - put it back to the people. If No Deal really is the will then we go head with it and thats the end of it.

 

unfortunately for you.. not enough people shared that view.. democracy gotta love it

[String fellow]

If I were Boris, I'd now say to Gina Miller, parliament and the country - okay, I'm staying here until 2022, with no new session of parliament, and endless extensions to Article 50. Are you happy now? That way, Corbyn doesn't get the chance to ruin everything, the Brexiteers still have their dream of eventually leaving the EU, and the Remoaners continue to have their chance to play their stop Brexit games.