Brexit!

[The Horse's Mouth]

5 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Not true. If Leave wins out in a 2nd referendum, we will leave, possibly with no deal, and justifiably so, there will be no leg to stand on for staying.

 

But you know full well a 2nd referendum will see us remain, which is why pro-leavers are so keen to avoid it.

They dont want a referendum because they won and also if remain had won there wouldn't be a second chance for leave to win so why the double standard?

[Dames]

1 minute ago, danfox76 said:

there was no decision to remain we voted leave.. accept it or maybe move to a communist country.. i have a feeling you'd fit in.

This whole thing stems from leavers not accepting a result 40 years ago.

 

But that is part of democracy, we get to change our minds. You would be the one that fits in best with a Communist regime if you truly believe that people don't get to change their minds and have to abide to 1 vote for all of eternity.

[Dames]

Just now, The Horse's Mouth said:

They dont want a referendum because they won and also if remain had won there wouldn't be a second chance for leave to win so why the double standard?

This vote technically was Leaves second chance after losing in the 70s.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

They dont want a referendum because they won and also if remain had won there wouldn't be a second chance for leave to win so why the double standard?

To reuse a previous reply to this -  so much has changed in 3 years,and people are now so much more informed, before it was an ideological sort of vote, now we actually know a lot more about the reality of Leave/Remain - should go back to the people now.

 

Whether you agree or not thats your opinion, but the above is mine.

[Jon the Hat]

8 minutes ago, Dames said:

They think they are doing whats best for the country. It is their view and they are entitled to it. We don't live in a dictatorship, its part and parcel of a democracy.

 

Just like your view is that Brexit is whats best, you are entitled to it.

 

As i've mentioned my opinion is that I don't believe that No Deal has enough of a mandate so why don't we find out, if you're so confident it should be quite simple - put it back to the people. If No Deal really is the will then we go head with it and thats the end of it.

 

Ah yes, we have a year of no deal project fear #2, and now you want a new referendum.  Of course you do!

[Alf Bentley]

3 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

This is just taking the piss now, GIVE US A GENERAL ELECTION. If the opposition are scared of losing a majority to this shambolic reign so far then they're not fit for the job. We are only going to continue going sideways, we cant negotiate a better deal with the EU because they wont give in to BoJos demands because he doesn't have the majority to get it through. We're wasting time, fighting over proroguing when ultimately it's a minor point, those 3 days aren't going to change the situation at all its just a way to shoot ammo at boris without having to commit to putting power on the line.

 

Corbyn has repeatedly made clear that he wants an election as soon as possible once Johnson has requested a Brexit extension to avoid No Deal. He said that again today.

 

There's a chance the EU might refuse, of course, but that applies regardless. All their previous comments suggest that they'd agree so long as the extension was for a "democratic event" like an election.

 

In all probability, all BoJo has to do is make that extension request, get EU agreement & then we could have an election by late November. 

[danfox76]

1 minute ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

try reading the quote Im replying to rather than taking the reply in isolation, thats why Foxestalk uses the quote function. 

i did... and just to add.. a second referendum is a joke when they haven't followed through on the first.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Just now, Dames said:

This vote technically was Leaves second chance after losing in the 70s.

I know and it took 41 years for them to get a second chance

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Dames said:

This vote technically was Leaves second chance after losing in the 70s.

Completely different vote on a completely different membership to a completely different organisation which happened to contain some of the same countries.  Yeah.

[Voll Blau]

 

Arf.

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 minute ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

To reuse a previous reply to this -  so much has changed in 3 years,and people are now so much more informed, before it was an ideological sort of vote, now we actually know a lot more about the reality of Leave/Remain - should go back to the people now.

 

Whether you agree or not thats your opinion, but the above is mine.

Nothing has changed though, remainers are still making the same points they did before the referendum, and so are leavers. The only change is more young people being able to vote who would most likely vote remain, I'm not necessarily against another vote,I dont think I'd partake in it. But I fully understand why leavers are adamant on not wanting another referendum. Every politician at the time said they would honour and respect the referendum result and that hasn't happened, of course they all expected remain to win and leave is very complex issue, but why should the 17 odd million that said we want to leave have to vote again when we've not even left the EU, and who's to say the EU even still want us now anyway 

[danfox76]

5 minutes ago, Dames said:

This vote technically was Leaves second chance after losing in the 70s.

and after decades the population realised the **** up.. well some at least.

[Ric Flair]

41 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think the argument is a second referendum would a least give people the opportunity to vote knowing much more about what leaving entails than before. 

 

Having said that, I am not massively keen on one. Although I'm starting to think it'd be the best way out of the impasse. 

Really? All I know is the MP's are often making decisions based on what they want and not what the people want. I know that is highly subjective but they certainly haven't given too much serious thought to the result of the referendum above all.

 

A whole host of exaggerations have been whiffed about from all parties and all I feel now is apathy and a hatred towards those involved in politics. I'd personally smear them all in fish paste and do a Battle Royale type game with giant piranhas to see who the winner and what the result is as there's fcuk all reason or use of asking the general public again. WE STILL DON'T KNOW.

[The Horse's Mouth]

6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Corbyn has repeatedly made clear that he wants an election as soon as possible once Johnson has requested a Brexit extension to avoid No Deal. He said that again today.

 

There's a chance the EU might refuse, of course, but that applies regardless. All their previous comments suggest that they'd agree so long as the extension was for a "democratic event" like an election.

 

In all probability, all BoJo has to do is make that extension request, get EU agreement & then we could have an election by late November. 

But I mean in the time frame promised, if Boris won the general election mid October he would most likely win it with a no deal Brexit mandate, meaning hed have every right to leave. All Corbyn has done as played party politics to hogtie the government and devoid it of all power. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Nothing has changed though, remainers are still making the same points they did before the referendum, and so are leavers. The only change is more young people being able to vote who would most likely vote remain, I'm not necessarily against another vote,I dont think I'd partake in it. But I fully understand why leavers are adamant on not wanting another referendum. Every politician at the time said they would honour and respect the referendum result and that hasn't happened, of course they all expected remain to win and leave is very complex issue, but why should the 17 odd million that said we want to leave have to vote again when we've not even left the EU, and who's to say the EU even still want us now anyway 

 

6 minutes ago, danfox76 said:

i did... and just to add.. a second referendum is a joke when they haven't followed through on the first.

It's difficult to argue with the above - but at the risk of repeating myself, I feel this is quite a unique referendum that was put to the people with most myself included not understanding the actual repercussions (not the mention the Leave campaign guilty lying and making things up) so it was an vague and ideological decision based on little knowledge of what Brexit actually entailed - now complicated with Hard / Soft Brexit, no deal etc. And for it to still be valid 3 years later with all the upheaval it needs to be put to the people again.

 

However I respect your opinions - but disagree with the doctrine.

[Dames]

4 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

But I mean in the time frame promised, if Boris won the general election mid October he would most likely win it with a no deal Brexit mandate, meaning hed have every right to leave. All Corbyn has done as played party politics to hogtie the government and devoid it of all power. 

The only way Boris wins is if he campaigns on a No Deal mandate. Which arguably puts the matter to bed once and for all.

[bovril]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Really? All I know is the MP's are often making decisions based on what they want and not what the people want. I know that is highly subjective but they certainly haven't given too much serious thought to the result of the referendum above all.

 

A whole host of exaggerations have been whiffed about from all parties and all I feel now is apathy and a hatred towards those involved in politics. I'd personally smear them all in fish paste and do a Battle Royale type game with giant piranhas to see who the winner and what the result is as there's fcuk all reason or use of asking the general public again. WE STILL DON'T KNOW.

Yes, really. 
Most people undoubtedly understand the workings of the EU, the process of leaving and the trade-offs that requires more than they did in 2016, myself included. 

[danfox76]

the u.k. is a buying nation in general.. does anyone really believe that other countries can afford not to sell their products to us?

 

for example.. if we stopped importing German cars.. i'm pretty sure the Germans would bend over backwards to get a trade deal done. and thats just one area

Edited 24 September 2019 by danfox76

[Dames]

1 minute ago, danfox76 said:

the u.k. is a buying nation in general.. does anyone really believe that other countries can afford not to sell their products to us?

 

for example.. if we stopped importing German cars.. i'm pretty sure they'd bend over backwards to get a trade deal done. and thats just one area

Actually they wouldn't.

 

The demand would still be there and trading would get back to similar levels after a time but we'd be paying more in tariffs and charges etc lining the EU's pockets even more. Even when two parties want to make a trade deal it takes years to ratify. Not to mention the EU would absolutely want to make an example of us to ensure nobody else thinks of leaving and the Germans, the French and whoever else will toe the company line.

 

The only people who will really be affected is us when things get more expensive.

 

 

[Saxondale]

16 minutes ago, danfox76 said:

and after decades the population realised the **** up.. well some at least.

Come on then, explain why you think it's a ****n up.

[Livid]

An 11-0 unanimous decision does make me question the decision of lower court to back the government just a little ? 

 

It's the footballing equivalent of Jon Moss missing a 15 yard offside call, being instantly being overruled by VAR and being awarded a free visit to Specsavers.

 

 

[danfox76]

3 minutes ago, Dames said:

Actually they wouldn't.

 

The demand would still be there and trading would get back to similar levels after a time but we'd be paying more in tariffs and charges etc lining the EU's pockets even more. Even when two parties want to make a trade deal it takes years to ratify. Not to mention the EU would absolutely want to make an example of us to ensure nobody else thinks of leaving and the Germans, the French and whoever else will toe the company line.

 

The only people who will really be affected is us when things get more expensive.

 

 

not good at business are you.. demand or not.. ban importing german cars.. the germans have a problem and will want to resolve.

[Jon the Hat]

10 minutes ago, Dames said:

Actually they wouldn't.

 

The demand would still be there and trading would get back to similar levels after a time but we'd be paying more in tariffs and charges etc lining the EU's pockets even more. Even when two parties want to make a trade deal it takes years to ratify. Not to mention the EU would absolutely want to make an example of us to ensure nobody else thinks of leaving and the Germans, the French and whoever else will toe the company line.

 

The only people who will really be affected is us when things get more expensive.

 

 

Or BMW open a factory in the UK to get easy access to our market

[Jon the Hat]

Reading a bit more around this, it seems the point of the Supreme court deciding prorogation is not a parliamentary procedure, and therefore is in the remit of the Supreme court it a significant change in our constitution.  It would be huge loss I think if we end up with a US style political appointed Supreme court, but stepping into the political arena might lead to that.

[Strokes]

23 minutes ago, Dames said:

Actually they wouldn't.

 

The demand would still be there and trading would get back to similar levels after a time but we'd be paying more in tariffs and charges etc lining the EU's pockets even more. Even when two parties want to make a trade deal it takes years to ratify. Not to mention the EU would absolutely want to make an example of us to ensure nobody else thinks of leaving and the Germans, the French and whoever else will toe the company line.

 

The only people who will really be affected is us when things get more expensive.

 

 

How would we be lining the EUs pockets even more?