Brexit!

[Steven]

12 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Is that the Parliament which then passed a law requiring him to request an article 50 extension to avoid no deal brexit, and then buggered off to conference?  How is it Frustrated exactly?

Do you know what unlawful proroguing means and the circumstances that would be required to effect such unlawful behavior and what the consequences of it would be. Ask a Judge and a corrupt PM who dishes out money for his latest honey. 

[danfox76]

5 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I do in fact believe in, 'again democracy'

against lmao

[AKCJ]

6 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

No, I don't agree at all and wouldn't say it if I thought it was bollocks! What you said could only be true if it was a landslide to Leave and that was not the case at all.

 

So much has changed in 3 years,and people are now so much more informed, before it was an ideological sort of vote, now we actually know a lot more about the reality of Leave/Remain - should go back to the people now.

 

 

 

So if the country votes 52/48 in favour to leave again you'll be happy with it?

 

I seriously doubt that.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

So if the country votes 52/48 in favour to leave again you'll be happy with it?

 

I seriously doubt that.

Happy - no; accept it - yes.

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Happy - no; accept it - yes.

So what has changed? If the country votes exactly the same?

[Dames]

1 minute ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Happy - no; accept it - yes.

I echo this sentiment. We won't have any leavers spouting rubbish about easy deals and extra funding for the NHS. They can campaign purely off a clean break perspective and if they win then so be it.

[ftfagos]

11-0 ... and Watford thought they’d had a bad result at the weekend.

[Collymore]

Come on guys, there's only one way to find a valid solution for the country to move forward which is fair and impartial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Foxestalk poll!

[bovril]

Just now, AKCJ said:

So what has changed? If the country votes exactly the same?

I think the argument is a second referendum would a least give people the opportunity to vote knowing much more about what leaving entails than before. 

 

Having said that, I am not massively keen on one. Although I'm starting to think it'd be the best way out of the impasse. 

[SMX11]

A general election is needed immediately. I suspect the remain parliament will attempt to gain control over the next week or so and kick an election into the long grass. They will not be able to hide forever.

[Alf Bentley]

16 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Erm, did you read the judgment?  Even Domonic Grieve doesn;t believe what you just wrote.

 

Its a ****ing week!  He suspended parliament for a week longer than normal at this time of year.  

 

That's factually incorrect, Jon - as the judge explained.

 

The Commons usually does not sit for 3+ weeks during conference season, but it is not prorogued to that end. 

Other parliamentary business, processing of legislation & committee meetings normally continues - & parliament could be recalled to sit in an emergency (which some were calling for, before prorogation).

 

Parliament is normally prorogued for less than a week prior to a Queen's Speech, not 5 weeks.

All commentators I've seen agree that this was the longest prorogation since at least WW2, if not the 1930s.....at the time of our biggest crisis since then.

 

It was a blatant and dangerous abuse of democracy & attempt to force through policy by anti-democratic, autocratic means.

There are all sorts of arguments over what should happen with Brexit - bona fide arguments that should continue & hopefully be resolved soon.....by democratic, not dictatorial means. 

It's a shame that you cannot see that undermining parliamentary democracy is not the way to resolve the impasse.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 minute ago, ftfagos said:

11-0 ... and Watford thought they’d had a bad result at the weekend.

Boris Johnson - worse than Ipswich!

[Dames]

Just now, AKCJ said:

So what has changed? If the country votes exactly the same?

The last 3 years for starters and how difficult it has been to obtain a deal, more focus on a hard border in Ireland which threatens the peace.

 

We now know the deal we have on offer, how bad it truly is. We also know the potential ramifications of no deal thanks to Operation Yellowhammer.

 

More than likely a new referendum would be between No Deal and Remain and if No Deal were to win then it would truly reflect the will of the people. As of right now, we cannot be 100% certain about that.

[danfox76]

14 minutes ago, Dames said:

Another tired old cliche when you have nothing intelligent to add to the argument you fire off some platitudes and end it with 'End of'.

 

Johnson lied to the Queen and therefore unlawfully acted - No remain MP has yet to unlawfully act. They have frustrated the process yes but within their democratic rights as MPs. For the most part many remain voting MPs will accept the result of the referendum but they will not accept the danger that a No Deal exit entails - A pro leave Governments own documents even outline this, its not project fear its just facts.

aye but still rings true.

 

and whats your take on these so called dangers? and what Brexit deal do you think benefits YOU.. or at least the general population?

 

its fear-mongering on the most part.. i remember when they first offered the vote.. Cameron on tv saying a leave vote could mean war lmao.. and blair chatting shit and crying on tv to save his e.u. job.. what a joke

[AKCJ]

4 minutes ago, Dames said:

The last 3 years for starters and how difficult it has been to obtain a deal, more focus on a hard border in Ireland which threatens the peace.

 

We now know the deal we have on offer, how bad it truly is. We also know the potential ramifications of no deal thanks to Operation Yellowhammer.

 

More than likely a new referendum would be between No Deal and Remain and if No Deal were to win then it would truly reflect the will of the people. As of right now, we cannot be 100% certain about that.

So you know for certain now what will happen in regards to Brexit in the next 3 years following a second leave/remain referendum?

 

As far as I can tell, nobody knows.

[The Guvnor]

Just witnessing Ian Blackford grinning like a Cheshire Cat has made me vomit explosively. 

[danfox76]

amazes me how people are so willing to believe the shit the gov spills over the word of their grandparents

[Alf Bentley]

Even Nigel gets the distinction between a legal ruling on democracy and policy on Brexit: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-resign-nigel-farage-parliament-brexit-supreme-court-dominic-cummings-a9117986.html

 

"Mr Farage said: "The calling of a Queen's Speech and prorogation is the worst political decision ever. Dominic Cummings must go."

 

[Dames]

1 minute ago, danfox76 said:

aye but still rings true.

 

and whats your take on these so called dangers? and what Brexit deal do you think benefits YOU.. or at least the general population?

 

its fear-mongering on the most part.. i remember when they first offered the vote.. Cameron on tv saying a leave vote could mean war lmao.. and blair chatting shit and crying on tv to save his e.u. job.. what a joke

Lack of food, lack of fuel, lack of medicine, potential lack of clean water as the chemical to clean our water is imported from guess where... the EU and this is just for starters. I mean realistically most of these dangers can be avoided by correct planning but as it has been proven, this Government and the ones that came before it do not do correct planning.

 

The kind of Brexit deal that benefits me personally is none, either way life is about to get more expensive, as proven every time the pound drops in value the closer we get to Brexit. But if any kind of Brexit were to be done it would need to minimize the impacts of all of the above and everything else outlined in the Yellowhammer document.

 

Its not fear mongering when it is an official document from a pro-leave Government. You cant keep writing these things off as 'Project Fear' when it doesn't suit your fairy tale narrative. There is going to be downsides to Brexit, potentially major downsides before we even start seeing some of the upsides and you have to accept that the view of some people in this country is that they would rather not have to risk those downsides.

 

Its not as simple as 'Leave won, end of'.

[Dames]

3 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

So you know for certain now what will happen in regards to Brexit in the next 3 years following a second leave/remain referendum?

 

As far as I can tell, nobody knows.

If there is a mandate from the general public for no deal it becomes a hell of a lot simpler.

[Finnaldo]

2 minutes ago, danfox76 said:

amazes me how people are so willing to believe the shit the gov spills over the word of their grandparents

 You mean Boomers who had access to the golden era of the NHS, pensions worth their weight in gold and could buy houses with their spare change?

 

A spoilt generation making life hard for their successors.

[Carl the Llama]

It's remarkable that we're all angry at the same thing - the betrayal of the British public - but we can't agree on what the betrayal is.  For some it's lying to the nation and trying to force the most extreme, harmful version of Brexit, for the rest it's lying to the nation and trying to prevent the most extreme, harmful Brexit.

[Dames]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Even Nigel gets the distinction between a legal ruling on democracy and policy on Brexit: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-resign-nigel-farage-parliament-brexit-supreme-court-dominic-cummings-a9117986.html

 

"Mr Farage said: "The calling of a Queen's Speech and prorogation is the worst political decision ever. Dominic Cummings must go."

 

He's a clever bloke is Nigel.

 

This comment seems as if he's putting himself against the Tories during an Election campaign and he can campaign on the benefit of a clean, law abiding Brexit. That has the potential to get him and the Brexit party a fair few seats.

[danfox76]

1 minute ago, Dames said:

Lack of food, lack of fuel, lack of medicine, potential lack of clean water as the chemical to clean our water is imported from guess where... the EU and this is just for starters. I mean realistically most of these dangers can be avoided by correct planning but as it has been proven, this Government and the ones that came before it do not do correct planning.

 

The kind of Brexit deal that benefits me personally is none, either way life is about to get more expensive, as proven every time the pound drops in value the closer we get to Brexit. But if any kind of Brexit were to be done it would need to minimize the impacts of all of the above and everything else outlined in the Yellowhammer document.

 

Its not fear mongering when it is an official document from a pro-leave Government. You cant keep writing these things off as 'Project Fear' when it doesn't suit your fairy tale narrative. There is going to be downsides to Brexit, potentially major downsides before we even start seeing some of the upsides and you have to accept that the view of some people in this country is that they would rather not have to risk those downsides.

 

Its not as simple as 'Leave won, end of'.

all of which can be sourced outside the eu.. the world is a lot bigger than the eu.. they've had years to sort these things out.. and should not be stopping the result from happening.. for example the U.S. has already offered to supply medicines.

 

again fear-mongering and stalling tactics.. i don't buy into that bullshit

[Strokes]

44 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

No matter what corruption or shenanigans, comes to light, Leavers gonna Leave - because they can't bear to be proved wrong, hurts their fragile egos.

 

Put it to another referendum, put your money where you mouth is.

One of the easiest ways to avoid being proved wrong is for us to remain.