Brexit!

[Alf Bentley]

4 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Wetherspoons ain't, and they're the only one that counts!

 

If we have a No Deal Brexit, the big business fat cats will all be reduced to drinking in Wetherspoon's.

 

No wonder Tim Martin's so keen on it..... 

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Equally weird how the right wing all of a sudden mistrust big business. After decades telling us our prosperity depends on business investment, growth and profitability, in turn requiring burgeoning inequality and corporate tax avoidance. 

 

I wouldn't trust big business to redistribute wealth or create a fairer society......but that's the job of democratic politics (if we choose to persist with it). The job of big business is to create wealth, isn't it? 

I would trust big companies not to announce an adverse outlook for business, investment and profitability under No Deal if the outlook was actually great.

CEOs don't generally talk down their own business prospects unnecessarily.....it would be bad for their profits, share prices and bonuses, wouldn't it? 

So you don’t think big business is capable of over egging the pudding, when publicly lobbying? 

[MC Prussian]

6 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

 

It raises the question whether the companies mentioned are having difficulties because of Brexit or not.

 

My guess it's the latter. Car manufacturers have been going through tough times for years now and need consolidation and a healthier restart, trimmed down fleets and more energy-efficient cars.

Electronics? Probably the same issue.

Airbus? Tough market, cost-cutting pressure, sloppy engineering and manufacturing, see Boeing for further reference.

 

And Unilever, couldn't care less. Evil company.

[Legend_in_blue]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/eus-chief-negotiator-calls-johnsons-backstop-solution-unacceptable/ar-AAHJ4Gq?ocid=spartanntp

 

So, all that's needed now is for Boris to spout the usual "we did what we could but the EU won't back down stance" and take us into a GE.

 

G'won Boris! 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

Have to say I'm dubious the Thomas Cook problems have anything to do with Brexit, my first assumption was that it was a bit like how Blockbuster got wrecked by online streaming.  

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

So you don’t think big business is capable of over egging the pudding, when publicly lobbying? 

 

Of course, I think it's capable of that - and I assume that it is lobbying against No Deal out of self-interest, not out of altruism towards the British people.

 

Maybe it is exaggerating the risks of No Deal or maybe not. I'm sure we disagree about that - but can maybe agree that we'll only find out if No Deal happens (maybe some time afterwards in some cases).

But I don't see why a lot of self-interested businesses would be publicly lobbying against No Deal unless they believed that it would be bad for their interests.

 

Before you ask, I haven't suddenly developed a great love for global corporations. I'd like to see govt stand up more for taxpayers, those in need and small business - and spend less time bending over backward for big business lobbyists.

But the economic reality is that, if big business in the UK takes a big hit and cuts jobs/investment or becomes less/non-viable, its employees, suppliers, the tax coffers and wider society will take much of the damage.

 

Do you believe that those big businesses would be lobbying against No Deal if they thought that it would boost their businesses - or even that it would have little impact? That would be bonkers, surely?

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Of course, I think it's capable of that - and I assume that it is lobbying against No Deal out of self-interest, not out of altruism towards the British people.

 

Maybe it is exaggerating the risks of No Deal or maybe not. I'm sure we disagree about that - but can maybe agree that we'll only find out if No Deal happens (maybe some time afterwards in some cases).

But I don't see why a lot of self-interested businesses would be publicly lobbying against No Deal unless they believed that it would be bad for their interests.

 

Before you ask, I haven't suddenly developed a great love for global corporations. I'd like to see govt stand up more for taxpayers, those in need and small business - and spend less time bending over backward for big business lobbyists.

But the economic reality is that, if big business in the UK takes a big hit and cuts jobs/investment or becomes less/non-viable, its employees, suppliers, the tax coffers and wider society will take much of the damage.

 

Do you believe that those big businesses would be lobbying against No Deal if they thought that it would boost their businesses - or even that it would have little impact? That would be bonkers, surely?

I don’t, and I’ve never said no deal would boost their business (although i do think some areas of business it would). It’s just when any pro brexit voice pops up, there seems to be a witch hunt before it’s established that he/she/they would personally benefit from it but then when a pro remain voice pops up. It’s like, see I told you so. There is no balance to any of this.

I’m not having a pop at you personally Alf but people that are feeding the drama, do their cause no justice whatsoever. They are exasperating the division and almost getting off on it I think. There are plenty of narcissists on both sides.

[Alf Bentley]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I don’t, and I’ve never said no deal would boost their business (although i do think some areas of business it would). It’s just when any pro brexit voice pops up, there seems to be a witch hunt before it’s established that he/she/they would personally benefit from it but then when a pro remain voice pops up. It’s like, see I told you so. There is no balance to any of this.

I’m not having a pop at you personally Alf but people that are feeding the drama, do their cause no justice whatsoever. They are exasperating the division and almost getting off on it I think. There are plenty of narcissists on both sides.

 

I certainly agree that there are plenty on both sides indulging in needless and damaging polarisation and narcissism. I don't remember many witch hunts re. self-interested Brexit voices. Is that in the wider social media? Maybe I miss out on the more hysterical stuff by not being on Twitter?

 

Views should be judged on their merits but with some awareness of any self-interest that may be at play. But it's awareness of the self-interest at play for big business that makes their views more credible to me - they're not lobbying out of some political agenda or out of the goodness of their hearts, but because they expect to lose cash!

 

I'm sure some areas of business would benefit from No Deal. It would be interesting to discuss which:

- Certainly the UK tourist industry if the pound falls, making foreign holidays expensive for Brits and Britain a cheap holiday destination for continentals.

- Some domestic manufacturers currently competing with the cheap imports of big foreign firms, if imports get more expensive or cross-Channel supply lines disrupted - but only UK producers not dependent on imported foreign parts?

- UK producers able to get into exporting, if they're in sectors not badly affected by high tariffs & selling non-perishable goods (small tariff rises could be more than offset by the likely fall in the pound)?

- Cheaper supermarkets & pubs (Wetherspoons ) when Brits have less spare cash due to higher food prices & possible squeeze on employment & pay?

- Would some in construction & associated trades benefit if house prices fell? Maybe those doing renovations/decorating (if people stayed put due to negative equity) or cheaper places became more affordable to first-time buyers?

 

I still think the overall economic impact of No Deal would be massively negative....just the basic idea of causing major disruption & expense to cross-Channel trade, making firms less competitive or even non-viable. 

Not just the direct impact, either. There are the local suppliers to big trading companies & the lost spending in the local economy if people lose their jobs or have pay squeezed to offset their employer's lost competitiveness/trade...

 

 

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Have to say I'm dubious the Thomas Cook problems have anything to do with Brexit, my first assumption was that it was a bit like how Blockbuster got wrecked by online streaming.  

Indeed.

An ex colleague of mine was the ops director of Thomas Cook and he left two years ago because he knew the writing was on the wall back then. Over 500 stores paying big rent and many up for renewal - they were never going to survive.

Shoppers habits have changed and TC didn’t adapt quick enough. Even my old parents in their 70’s now book their holidays online.

TC, Toys are Us, Maplin, New Look, Office Oulet, all gone bust recently and more to follow.

Its not Brexit, it’s just that high street retail is on its arse and online shopping continues to boom.

 

 

[Jimothy]

18 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Indeed.

An ex colleague of mine was the ops director of Thomas Cook and he left two years ago because he knew the writing was on the wall back then. Over 500 stores paying big rent and many up for renewal - they were never going to survive.

Shoppers habits have changed and TC didn’t adapt quick enough. Even my old parents in their 70’s now book their holidays online.

TC, Toys are Us, Maplin, New Look, Office Oulet, all gone bust recently and more to follow.

Its not Brexit, it’s just that high street retail is on its arse and online shopping continues to boom.

 

 

New Look didn't go bust, they did what Thomas Cook should have done and shut some poorly performing stores.

[HappyHamza]

29 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Indeed.

An ex colleague of mine was the ops director of Thomas Cook and he left two years ago because he knew the writing was on the wall back then. Over 500 stores paying big rent and many up for renewal - they were never going to survive.

Shoppers habits have changed and TC didn’t adapt quick enough. Even my old parents in their 70’s now book their holidays online.

TC, Toys are Us, Maplin, New Look, Office Oulet, all gone bust recently and more to follow.

Its not Brexit, it’s just that high street retail is on its arse and online shopping continues to boom.

 

 

This is slightly off.

Whilst online sales have obviously expanded, you only have to look at restaurants to see that the issue is deeper than that. 

People are going out less too. 

The economy isnt going to be heading anywhere other than downwards unless something changes. 

If we had a Labour government the papers would be screaming about it being all down to them. 

[Izzy]

8 minutes ago, HappyHamza said:

This is slightly off.

Whilst online sales have obviously expanded, you only have to look at restaurants to see that the issue is deeper than that. 

People are going out less too. 

The economy isnt going to be heading anywhere other than downwards unless something changes. 

If we had a Labour government the papers would be screaming about it being all down to them. 

Interesting that top of the list of new retailers opening on the High Street are take away outlets.

 

People might be going out less but they're spending more on Supermarket alcohol and in home entertainment.

 

Shoppers habits and the way we spend our money is changing, regardless of Brexit or who's running the country.

[Salisbury Fox]

8 hours ago, HappyHamza said:

If we had a Labour government the papers would be screaming about it being all down to them. 

Thankfully we haven’t and looking at their conference I can only hope it stays that way.

[The Guvnor]

32 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

Thankfully we haven’t and looking at their conference I can only hope it stays that way.

Composite 13 vote was pure slapstick comedy gold.

Ohhh Jereeeemyyy Corbyyyyyyn

We are the democratic party my arse.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

So in that show of hands at the Labour conference yesterday, they didn't actually count the votes, they just eyeballed it? 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, The Guvnor said:

Composite 13 vote was pure slapstick comedy gold.

Ohhh Jereeeemyyy Corbyyyyyyn

We are the democratic party my arse.

 

Unless there's some complication over union votes, the visuals did suggest that Corbyn's crew successfully defeated the Remain motion.

 

It was utterly cringeworthy, though:

- How did they get someone so incompetent to chair the conference?

- You could almost see Corbyn's mate Jennie Formby twisting the chair's hand up her back & angrily whispering: "No! The vote needs to be the other way!"

- Drunken students chanting "O00h! Je-re-my Cor-byn!" at closing time in 2017 was mildly amusing; old codgers doing it at conference in 2019 is seriously embarrassing....it's a political party, not a personality cult, people!

 

I have mixed feelings about the outcome of the vote:

- A case can be made for renegotiating a Brexit deal & putting it to a referendum 

- There isn't even a problem with the party not having everyone united around a single referendum outcome....the Tories weren't united like that in 2016; everyone knows that most Labour leaders will support Remain but Corbyn prefers Soft Brexit

- The problem lies in explaining that policy during an election, particularly when most voters have only a superficial interest in politics

 

A simple, honest message might work: "most in Labour support Remain, but some support leave; but we want to unite the country by having the people decide.....unlike those Tories & Lib Dems who want to polarise & force us into extreme outcomes". That would allow Corbyn to stay on his fence, most other Labour leaders to campaign for Remain & Leave Labour MPs to make it clear to their constituents at an election that they support a Brexit deal.

 

I can't see that message working, though, as most voters want simpler messages.....

I'd still expect Labour to lose seats at an election (unless Boris seriously fvcks up in the meantime - entirely possible).

Depressing that cynical, divisive messages like those promoted by him and by Swinson are the ones most likely to win support, by being clear, partisan - and dishonest. There'll be a price to pay for that further down the line. 

[ealingfox]

34 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

So in that show of hands at the Labour conference yesterday, they didn't actually count the votes, they just eyeballed it? 

 

This is common practice in large membership bodies, usually with provision that a division can be called to count precisely if it's obviously close on the show of hands.

[Steven]

Supreme court rules Boris Johnson's prorogation was 'unlawful'

Hale says the court is “bound to conclude that the decision to advise her Majesty to prorogue parliament was unlawful”.

[Voll Blau]

 

 

 

[Steven]

Lying to Her Majesty. How low can Johnson stoop. Very shabby from a UK Prime Minister.

[RoboFox]

Wow. Parliament is effectively still sitting.

 

Has any PM ever been humiliated to this extent?

 

Oh, and he wanted the job so, so bad. He's played the longest game in politics to get it. Lived for it. Lied for it.

 

So cathartic to see him being stripped bare.

 

F**k him.

[Finnaldo]

Sovereignty rules.

 

[EnderbyFox]

 

[Bryn]

He is a disgrace and should do the following:

 

Sack Cummings 

Request and agree to an extension to article 50

Resign, leading to a general election

Submit to an independent investigation of his actions as prime minister 

[HappyHamza]

11 hours ago, Izzy said:

Interesting that top of the list of new retailers opening on the High Street are take away outlets.

 

People might be going out less but they're spending more on Supermarket alcohol and in home entertainment.

 

Shoppers habits and the way we spend our money is changing, regardless of Brexit or who's running the country.

People not going out and instead purchasing cheaper take always and supermarket lager only supports my point. This is what happens when consumer confidence sinks. Consumers move to cheaper products.