George Hirst

[Guest An Sionnach]

3 hours ago, Plastik Man said:

He may run the channels from a central position but I can't see him being particularly effective cutting in from outside. 

Mahrez used to do that for us and if you have his skill at beating defenders it can be very effective but Albrighton rarely does and long speculative crosses will not work for us. We have to use a quick interchange of passing to create the chances and they have been created, but too many go begging. I don't know for sure if Hirst would both create chances or take them. He has both height and strength and would give us something different .I think it is worth giving him an opportunity from the bench soon.

[Jimmy]

Hirst is a centre forward who is also apparently a decent finisher so why the hell would we put him in a role where he needs to be creative? Yes we need more winger options but Hirst is not one of them

[Guest An Sionnach]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Hirst is a centre forward who is also apparently a decent finisher so why the hell would we put him in a role where he needs to be creative? Yes we need more winger options but Hirst is not one of them

Our style now needs all our forwards to be both creators and finishers. Think De Brunye this afternoon.

[Nicolo Barella]

8 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Our style now needs all our forwards to be both creators and finishers. Think De Brunye this afternoon.

A shame de Bruyne is literally the best player in the PL, and asking our players to just "play like De Bruyne" would be stupid.

 

Obviously I'm mischaracterising your point but it's more difficult than you're making it sound. Do you think Vardy has it in him to be a creator? He's ok at it, but do you really think having him as a Kaneesque forward would work? That's our best forward (by far, and one of the best in the PL) who is unable to do what you've asked him. It's very difficult to find players that complete, much less at a level where they can perform for a club in a Top 4 position in the PL. We need to play to our strengths, not our weaknesses. Right now our squad isn't elite enough for any of our attacking players to be able to do that, let alone one.

[Guest An Sionnach]

1 hour ago, Nicolo Barella said:

A shame de Bruyne is literally the best player in the PL, and asking our players to just "play like De Bruyne" would be stupid.

 

Obviously I'm mischaracterising your point but it's more difficult than you're making it sound. Do you think Vardy has it in him to be a creator? He's ok at it, but do you really think having him as a Kaneesque forward would work? That's our best forward (by far, and one of the best in the PL) who is unable to do what you've asked him. It's very difficult to find players that complete, much less at a level where they can perform for a club in a Top 4 position in the PL. We need to play to our strengths, not our weaknesses. Right now our squad isn't elite enough for any of our attacking players to be able to do that, let alone one.

I think you are underestimating our potential , all our forwards possess the technique to both create and score .Maddison has one of the best brains in the division. Kevin Debrunye is part of an attacking set up whose ability is more than the sum of the individuals. They have worked hard to achieve an understanding that means they all possess goal threat but also create chances for each other.

[Nicolo Barella]

2 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

I think you are underestimating our potential , all our forwards possess the technique to both create and score .Maddison has one of the best brains in the division. Kevin Debrunye is part of an attacking set up whose ability is more than the sum of the individuals. They have worked hard to achieve an understanding that means they all possess goal threat but also create chances for each other.

Maddison is probably the closest to being able to do it I agree, which is why he is our top assister and second goalscorer. But, those numbers are boosted by his excellent set pieces, not to mention his shooting technique is nowhere near de Bruyne's, he hardly ever gets a good amount of power on his shots. And that's basically the one player who is close to doing what you describe. 

 

Best also not to forget that our players are also currently part of a setup that has an ability greater than the sum of it's individuals, Rodgers has them coached excellently.

[Guest An Sionnach]

Man. City have perfected it after years of work, we still have a way to go but we are getting there.

[Jimmy]

5 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Man. City have perfected it after years of work

not for getting the Billions they have spent also, seriously no one else can do what they do so stop trying to do so as we simply will never be able to achieve it, in this instance you are wanting a young centre forward to suddenly play like one of the best attacking midfielders around, I don't think you can have watched Hirst at all if you think that is remotely possible

[coolhandfox]

Hirst will be lucky to ever make the first team.

[Guest An Sionnach]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

not for getting the Billions they have spent also, seriously no one else can do what they do so stop trying to do so as we simply will never be able to achieve it, in this instance you are wanting a young centre forward to suddenly play like one of the best attacking midfielders around, I don't think you can have watched Hirst at all if you think that is remotely possible

I'm pretty sure that Rodgers is at least trying to follow their example . I did watch him play the other night and no he is not Aguero yet but his control and awareness looked good to me. Rodgers is trying to instill a new mindset into his forwards, working as a constantly mobile, interchanging unit, not individuals and I see no reason why Hirst can't be part of that.

[Guest An Sionnach]

Any rumours on what's happening with him , loan , transfer or a legal quagmire ?

[Guest]

I'm hearing Man City are in for him as their long-term De Bruyne replacement

[Guest An Sionnach]

1 minute ago, Guest said:

I'm hearing Man City are in for him as their long-term De Bruyne replacement

De Bruyne got his arse kicked by Chelsea when he was his age.

[Guest An Sionnach]

Must be getting close now or at least a topic of discussion with the coaching team.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, An Sionnach said:

Must be getting close now or at least a topic of discussion with the coaching team.

Got to be on the bench tomorrow night surely. We've no other striker available than Iheanacho and Gray is evidently not a consideration of Rodgers since his lacklustre display vs Villa in the semi final. Give the lad the experience.

[Suzie the Fox]

12 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Got to be on the bench tomorrow night surely. We've no other striker available than Iheanacho and Gray is evidently not a consideration of Rodgers since his lacklustre display vs Villa in the semi final. Give the lad the experience.

Perez perhaps? 

[surrifox]

18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Got to be on the bench tomorrow night surely. We've no other striker available than Iheanacho and Gray is evidently not a consideration of Rodgers since his lacklustre display vs Villa in the semi final. Give the lad the experience.

as he played a full 90 last night I really don't see this happening. playing Perez in his correct position is a more likely option. If Nige keeps the Watford gig I can see him bidding for Hirst in the Summer 

[Suzie the Fox]

1 minute ago, surrifox said:

as he played a full 90 last night I really don't see this happening. playing Perez in his correct position is a more likely option. If Nige keeps the Watford gig I can see him bidding for Hirst in the Summer 

Why do you think he will, Hirst was pants at OHL when Nige was there. 

 

The Belgium guys thought he was a total flop (unless i'm missing something obvious here, which is highly likely  ) 

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

Perez perhaps? 

Hmmmmm not a striker though in my opinion, certainly not to play up there on his own it's a horrible prospect.

[Suzie the Fox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Hmmmmm not a striker though in my opinion, certainly not to play up there on his own it's a horrible prospect.

On his own is perhaps pushing it abit, but maybe in a 2 with Barnes? I'm just thinking more of a central position for him might suit and he sorta was a striker for Newcastle (albeit not centrally) 

 

Just a thought as i've never played a game of football in my life so have zero clue on tactics lol. 

[volpeazzurro]

On 15/12/2019 at 23:15, An Sionnach said:

Our style now needs all our forwards to be both creators and finishers. Think De Brunye this afternoon.

Style is nothing if you don't possess the players to play that style. Think Leicester City when Paolo Sosa came, you couldn't  play Barcelona champagne football with beer and chips players. To exaggerate, would you put Schmeichel on the wing and tell him to be a creator just to try to fulfil a style?

 

You couldn't out Barcelona playing Barcelona football, likewise currently with Liverpool or Manchester City but, you can beat or compete with them sometimes by playing differently and by playing to YOUR strengths if you have any, Watford did ok didn't they? Full commitment and die for the cause attitude helps as well, we used to have that.

 

Rodgers for example didn't appear to have any 'different' coherent tactical plan against Manchester City away and as expected, their better players came out on top but, we know that some supposed 'lesser' teams have managed to get at them, why was that?

 

 If you wanted to beat the old Barcelona, though any tactics might fail due to their quality of style and players,  you'd stand more chance by being the big strong long ball Pulis Stoke City on a wet Friday night than a Leicester City tippy tappy looky likely.

 

All style and no substance eventually gets you nowhere and neither does just being a poor copy of something. We won the League by being a functioning team with its own particular style at a particular moment in time with players that fitted it. 

 

Currently, albeit with some talented young players and some early season style of a sort, we seem to have lost our way for a number of reasons, one being not yet having all the necessary players to play Rodgers style ie Perez stuck ineffectively out on the right for one. But, even if we get some better players to follow Rodgers dream style, is it attainable commensurate with the players we could afford or, could his style even be an poor imitation of an old style?

 

 

Edited 3 March 2020 by volpeazzurro

[urban.spaceman]

Hope he gets on the bench tomorrow!

[ALC Fox]

Even though he played the full 90, it'd be good if he made the squad and we're able to give him ten minutes or so of first team football. Dangling the carrot could spur him on as well.

 

Seems like the lad is having a good season. Maybe a loan to top end Championship is on the cards next season (with a recall clause like Barnes did).

[surrifox]

44 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

Why do you think he will, Hirst was pants at OHL when Nige was there. 

 

The Belgium guys thought he was a total flop (unless i'm missing something obvious here, which is highly likely  ) 

yes he was pants there but he has shown some ability before going there and  since his return. Nigel and Hirst senior are old mates and Nige influenced his move from Sheff wed. it's  merely idle speculation however , I just wouldn't be surprised if he went 

[drofmor55]

46 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

On his own is perhaps pushing it abit, but maybe in a 2 with Barnes? I'm just thinking more of a central position for him might suit and he sorta was a striker for Newcastle (albeit not centrally) 

 

Just a thought as i've never played a game of football in my life so have zero clue on tactics lol. 

 I believe the only way to find out if they can play well together is to actually play them..partnerships that on paper that look they will work often dont and some others

almost have a telepathic understanding and do. Nowadays though, managers dont get this luxury..lose 3 or 4 matches on the spin and the fans are calling for thier heads