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Guest MattP

FT General Election Poll 2019

By Guest MattP, in General Chat

FT General Election 2019  

501 members have voted

  1. 1. Which party will be getting your vote?

    • Conservative
      155
    • Labour
      188
    • Liberal Democrats
      93
    • Brexit Party
      17
    • Green Party
      26
    • Other
      22

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bovril

bovril

Posted
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Posted

I don't know why people get so wound up by comments about the electorate being stupid. It's hardly the worst insult and it's probably true, millions of people are stupid and have no idea what they're voting for. It's the same in every country I'm sure. 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

1) There are plenty around who didn't like the result who suggested the electorate is stupid.

 

 

There are always plenty of stupid comments on every side. Doesn't make sense to judge any cause by its most idiotic elements.

Likewise, doesn't make sense to judge a whole party by one reported comment, spitefully revealed without context by a bitter rival who's just lost her job.

 

Don't get me wrong. There's plenty of blame to be laid at the door of the Labour leadership. It's a truly shocking performance to get such a thrashing from a shower of shite who've been mismanaging the country for 9 years, who have created massive division, who have achieved almost nothing and who are led by a democracy-suspending narcissist and habitual liar.....when neither Boris nor the Tories were particularly popular themselves. That's a hell of a judgment on Corbyn's Labour. It's like LCFC losing 0-6 at home to a Nuneaton Borough team who are all hungover after their Xmas party.

 

I'd just like to see Labour judged (harshly but realistically) on its record & proposals, not on the opportunistic use of one reported comment of dubious relevance. Likewise, the Tories should be judged on their record and proposals, not on one stupid comment (e.g. Rees-Mogg on Grenfell - a comment made publicly, in a known context, unlike Thornberry's reported private comment).

 

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Kopfkino

Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, bovril said:

I don't know why people get so wound up by comments about the electorate being stupid. It's hardly the worst insult and it's probably true, millions of people are stupid and have no idea what they're voting for. It's the same in every country I'm sure. 

Probably because it's pretty damn obvious she's decided that based on how they voted in 2016. Rather than just making your pretty obvious observation that some people are less stupid than others. 

 

And it sums up people like Thornberry, nauseatingly arrogant. The electorate are just objects to project her paternatilistic instincts onto and when they don't come into line they're stupid. 

 

And I'm pretty sure you didn't brush JRM's comments off as yeah well some people do lack common sense. 

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UpTheLeagueFox

UpTheLeagueFox

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, bovril said:

I don't know why people get so wound up by comments about the electorate being stupid. It's hardly the worst insult and it's probably true, millions of people are stupid and have no idea what they're voting for. It's the same in every country I'm sure. 

Doesn't bother me in the slightest what they think.

However, if you're trying to get people onside and win elections then the 'stupid' comments and calling anyone who's voted Tory before "scum" and doing similar to centre right Labour people ("Blairite scum") and Lib Dems ("Austerity-enabling Yellow Tory scum")  it's not exactly inclusive and doesn't help their own cause. 

Not all people who vote Tory are racist neanderthals and not everyone who votes Labour are antisemite, Terrorist-lovers.

 

5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

There are always plenty of stupid comments on every side.

100% agree.

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bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
Just now, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Doesn't bother me in the slightest what they think.

However, if you're trying to get people onside and win elections then the 'stupid' comments and calling anyone who's voted Tory before "scum" and doing similar to centre right Labour people ("Blairite scum") and Lib Dems ("Austerity-enabling Yellow Tory scum")  it's not exactly inclusive and doesn't help their own cause. 

Not all people who vote Tory are racist neanderthals and not everyone who votes Labour are antisemite, Terrorist-lovers.

 

But that sounds more like stuff you would read on social media, who could be anybody frankly. 

 

Loads of people seem to have these caricatures in their heads of what they consider the opposition to be like, which is only loosely based on reality I think. 

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LiberalFox

LiberalFox

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, bovril said:

I don't know why people get so wound up by comments about the electorate being stupid. It's hardly the worst insult and it's probably true, millions of people are stupid and have no idea what they're voting for. It's the same in every country I'm sure. 

Because it's a stereotype of the left wing.

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LiberalFox

LiberalFox

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, The Guvnor said:

I don't know why people get so wound up by comments about the left wing being stupid. It's hardly the worst insult and it's probably true, millions of people are stupid and have no idea what they're voting for. It's the same in every country I'm sure. 

I'm genuinely not sure what you are trying to say. lol

 

What I mean is that there's a stereotype of left wing people believing (working class) people who don't agree with them are stupid. I'd also add that the political right has done a good job of priming people to respond to this, not just in this country too. An awful lot of votes are being cast for conservative parties by people who have been made to feel furious that they are being patronised and talked down to by the left wing parties that claim to represent them.

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The Guvnor

The Guvnor

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I'm genuinely not sure what you are trying to say. lol

 

What I mean is that there's a stereotype of left wing people believing (working class) people who don't agree with them are stupid. I'd also add that the political right has done a good job of priming people to respond to this, not just in this country too. An awful lot of votes are being cast for conservative parties by people who have been made to feel furious that they are being patronised and talked down to by the left wing parties that claim to represent them.

Shouldn't have posted that really it was a copy and paste of a previous post with a slight ammendment, I probably agree with the poster that there are an awful lot of people who know next to nothing about politics, does that make them stupid, of course not. Generally speaking political debate is repetitive and as boring as fcuk so it's no surprise people are switched off by it.

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twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet

Posted
Posted

You have to look at labours failings:-

1. Not to recognise that leave voters whether you liked or not wanted to leave. Dispite some of your MP's saying they had made up thier minds.

2. Electing a leader that was percieved before he was elected to be an IRA sympathiser. Was going to be difficult to get exservices to support you.

3. Promoting Dianne Abbot well above the level of her own incompetence in the eyes of many.

4. Assuming the British public can be bought with freebies.

5. The rhetoric coming from momentum was toxic both internally and externally.

6. Continuing to believe what you are telling yourself rather than what you are being told on the doorsteps.

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Leicester_Loyal

Leicester_Loyal

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, twoleftfeet said:

You have to look at labours failings:-

1. Not to recognise that leave voters whether you liked or not wanted to leave. Dispite some of your MP's saying they had made up thier minds.

2. Electing a leader that was percieved before he was elected to be an IRA sympathiser. Was going to be difficult to get exservices to support you.

3. Promoting Dianne Abbot well above the level of her own incompetence in the eyes of many.

4. Assuming the British public can be bought with freebies.

5. The rhetoric coming from momentum was toxic both internally and externally.

6. Continuing to believe what you are telling yourself rather than what you are being told on the doorsteps.

Number 1 was suicide. Even posters on here were saying it was a great idea to campaign for remain after negotiating a deal, it was ridiculous.

 

Number 6 - There were clearly millions who were fed up with Brexit, it was so obvious. Jess Phillips knocked on 25,000 doors and only 2 people mentioned Brexitlol

 

Looking at the next batch of potential leaders, Labour are going to struggle again. They'll pick a left wing remainer again and not a lot will change. Meh, more fool them.

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katieakita

katieakita

Posted
Posted

Think they were completely out of touch with a leader un-electable, The new MP for Leicester East is a prime example ignoring what the local Labour party wanted. Was approached in Long Eaton by a Labour canvasser and when I told them I ran a Post Office so it was pretty obvious who I would vote for they were blissfully unaware of what the Post bank and bringing Royal Mail back under public ownership actually meant and the benefits. 

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Kendal Fox

Kendal Fox

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Doesn't bother me in the slightest what they think.

However, if you're trying to get people onside and win elections then the 'stupid' comments and calling anyone who's voted Tory before "scum" and doing similar to centre right Labour people ("Blairite scum") and Lib Dems ("Austerity-enabling Yellow Tory scum")  it's not exactly inclusive and doesn't help their own cause. 

Not all people who vote Tory are racist neanderthals and not everyone who votes Labour are antisemite, Terrorist-lovers.

 

100% agree.

It's the fact that the word "scum" is used in such a frivolous way that disturbs me. Like, a person's identity rests solely on what political party they vote for??!! Calling them "scum" because they vote differently to you and just reducing their whole identity to nothingness FFS!!?

 

It's the shallowness of that and the fact it denotes so much instability, seemingly of no concern to the Labour party, which is equally disturbing. Worst of all, these people say they are "for the people", which means they should know better than anyone?!!! That is unacceptable.

 

How is it any wonder that this kind of toxicity lost them so many seats?! As Alf and Facecloth have alluded to, they really need to let the dust settle and seriously deconstruct the party and then reconstruct, with the essence of the core principles of Labour/Socialism genuinely understood and respected.

Edited by Kendal Fox
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