The Politics Thread 2020

[Leicester_Loyal 6,317]

I think you're all wrong. I genuinely think it'll go away in a week or two, without Cummings being sacked. 'Lets put this all behind us and move onto the next stage of lockdown, while focusing our efforts on saving lives'.

 

I could be totally wrong though!

[Cardiff_Fox 6,704]

5 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I think you're all wrong. I genuinely think it'll go away in a week or two, without Cummings being sacked. 'Lets put this all behind us and move onto the next stage of lockdown, while focusing our efforts on saving lives'.

 

I could be totally wrong though!

The latest you gov poll has seen Labour nearest to Tory for years 

 

Anyway, this was incredibly powerful watch on BBC last night. (You know that nasty MSM source) 

 

[Lionator 2,334]

6 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I think you're all wrong. I genuinely think it'll go away in a week or two, without Cummings being sacked. 'Lets put this all behind us and move onto the next stage of lockdown, while focusing our efforts on saving lives'.

 

I could be totally wrong though!

If it moves on, it moves on to their shambolic handling of the pandemic in its early days. With public opinion changed then it could begin to get even messier. 

[Dahnsouff 6,356]

5 minutes ago, Lionator said:

If it moves on, it moves on to their shambolic handling of the pandemic in its early days. With public opinion changed then it could begin to get even messier. 

If this is the case it is both useless and immoral, as it will be driven purely by the press, and I seriously doubt there is a large appetite amongst the wider public to pick over the bones of this, especially as the financial costs continue to bite whilst the virus costs begin to dwindle. (But that is just my personal "feel")

 

In terms of review of all stages of the handling of this pandemic, it should be done as a very dry,  academic led study, and certainly not as a front page tabloid expose. I also think this story with DC will pass, there is only so much mileage, new elements it has. (Like it not, he has given his version of events)

[jammie82uk 1,578]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The latest you gov poll has seen Labour nearest to Tory for years 

Polls have to be taken with a huge pinch of salt 

 

 

[Dahnsouff 6,356]

Basing voting intentions off the back of a recent "scandal" is notoriously unreliable longer term.

[Cardiff_Fox 6,704]

16 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

Polls have to be taken with a huge pinch of salt 

 

 

You haven’t read my next post then - I’m not making any bold claims about Tories getting surpassed off the back of a poll. To aside, it’s an absolute gigantic task of that happening given the likely boundary changes. 
 

I’m saying the negative shift on the Tories and positive shift on Labour is a symbol of the public mood which may cause Tory MPs to twitch and agitate. 
 

It easy to try and make political debate, us and them but I’m not doing that here. Just providing a commentary. 
 

The Momentum twitter poll is about as much use as a chocolate teapot 

[StanSP 31,318]

I don't think it's right to just 'move on'. It's such a big issue - the debatable initial trip, the trip to the castle, the lack of responsibility and accountability from government and specific individuals, the lack of regret, the double standards, the scandal of Cummings editing that document to make it look like he predicted the virus, the governments response from the beginning in preparing/handling the pandemic. It just smacks of deceit and being lied to which obviously no one likes. 

 

It all rolls in to one and government are in a position to be held to account for things they've done wrong as well as praised for things they've done right. With so much media attention in literally every angle on what they do and everything instantly scrutinised, there's bound to be some things magnified more than others. Look at what the Mail and Guardian have done - singing from the same broadsheet for once... When else has that happened?! They'll run with it til it actually gets boring or if something is done about it, not just because someone says 'move on'. They'll continue with it until a bigger story comes along, but right now this is the big story. 

 

I also don't get the point of saying 'it's a distraction, let us focus on dealing with coming out of the pandemic and lockdown' . Maybe tell your staff and ministers and advisors to behave and stick by the rules! Also, can you not do more than one thing at once ?! With the amount of people working on it and their input, I'm sure you can deal with more than one thing at a time

You can focus on saving lives at the same time as getting your own house in order. If you can't, maybe it's not right to be in the position you're in... 

[Mike Oxlong 8,545]

Boris’s appearance before the liaison committee this afternoon could be worth a look at although he appears to have manipulated its effectiveness by getting Bernard Jenkins to chair

 

Might have a drinking game - half a pint for every question Boris actually answers - fully expecting to be entirely sober at the end

[StanSP 31,318]

Just now, Mike Oxlong said:

Boris’s appearance before the liaison committee this afternoon could be worth a look at although he appears to have manipulated its effectiveness by getting Bernard Jenkins to chair

 

Might have a drinking game - half a pint for every question Boris actually answers - fully expecting to be entirely sober at the end

Who is on the committee? How often does this liaison committee happen? 

[Mike Oxlong 8,545]

Just now, StanSP said:

Who is on the committee? How often does this liaison committee happen? 

I’m no expert but from what I can gather it’s a meeting at which  the heads of the various select committees are able to question the PM. It had been chaired by the  head of one of the committees but the pro Johnson Jenkins didn’t get elected as a chair last time round.

 

PM normally appears before the Liaison Committee every 3 months. Boris is making his first appearance 10 months in. Probably been too busy attending Cobra meetings ! 

[Finnaldo 3,296]

Bit odd to say ‘move on’. Polls suggest a majority of the people think he’s done wrong and should be sacked. Tory MPs and even apolitical religious heads think he should stand down. The only person at fault for this dragging out is the guy bullheaded enough not to just apologise day one. It’s been exacerbated by the flawed stories and contradictory accounts and from the point we’re at it won’t end now until there’s decisive action either way. It’s got to the point where the cabinet is ‘reviewing lockdown rules around families’ to get him out of dodge. 
 

I said yesterday, and I maintain that here, that I’m done discussing this because I don’t think there’s much left to convince or persuade others. This is now a matter of damage limitation rather than any kind of debate. All I’m gonna say is claiming this story is ‘old’, ‘stale’ or we all need to ‘move on’ is going to be hard to sell when there’s literally developments by the day and no clear resolution apparent.
 

If you’re bored of it, just discuss something else. There was several other discussions running parallel in the Coronavirus thread you could have participated in whilst not fuelling the Cummings debate by adding that you’re tired of it. I’m not being funny, this argument seems to be trotted out by people who have an interest in the story disappearing, and they’re just as culpable as people regularly posting updates on it.

 

If you don’t like a post and don’t wish to discuss it, talk about something else. It’s really that simple.

[Jon the Hat 4,458]

Woohoo politics thread is BACK baby!  Lets keep it friendly folks!

Off to find the Covid thread as I have a point on that!

[UpTheLeagueFox 11,385]

5 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The latest you gov poll has seen Labour nearest to Tory for years 

Really?
This time last year Labour were ahead of the Tories for about four months (April-July).

Tories dropped to 18% - yes really! - in June last year.

They started to open up a decent gap over Labour when Johnson became PM.

 

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/dec/11/election-opinion-polls-uk-2019-latest-poll-tracker-tories-labour

[Jon the Hat 4,458]

I don't think I can recall a time when the politics / media relationship is quite so antagonistic.  Despite their being a lot of journo's in politics or married to our polticians or becuase of it?  The need for a gotcha moment has been getting more annoying for years;  Anytime a politician changes their mind they are performing a U turn, not just responding to public opinion or new information.  Is that real or the media treating normal adult behaviour as some kind of weakness - for me changing your opinion or policy when new facts emerge should be the status quo. Depressing really.

[StanSP 31,318]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I don't think I can recall a time when the politics / media relationship is quite so antagonistic.  Despite their being a lot of journo's in politics or married to our polticians or becuase of it?  The need for a gotcha moment has been getting more annoying for years;  Anytime a politician changes their mind they are performing a U turn, not just responding to public opinion or new information.  Is that real or the media treating normal adult behaviour as some kind of weakness - for me changing your opinion or policy when new facts emerge should be the status quo. Depressing really.

The need for a gotcha moment has been around for years surely? Look at how Corbyn was treated. Abbott on the train with a mojito from a can. Ed Miliband with the bacon roll! 

 

The social media age we're in doesn't help. Everyone wants to be first. Everyone wants the reaction. Everyone (journalists, reporters, presenters, interviewers) wants that big scoop, that quick gambit or bite. It gives airtime to one's who perhaps aren't qualified for it or weren't anywhere near getting it before social media became prevalent. (I include myself in this at times, especially Twitter, so will hold my hands up there!). 

[The Horse's Mouth 2,868]

Cummings is past the peak so to speak, pressure is just going to dwindle from here, no chance he goes now, Boris double downed too much, he'd probably lose a lot of his base if he went back on that now.

[Cardiff_Fox 6,704]

9 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Really?
This time last year Labour were ahead of the Tories for about four months (April-July).

Tories dropped to 18% - yes really! - in June last year.

They started to open up a decent gap over Labour when Johnson became PM.

 

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/dec/11/election-opinion-polls-uk-2019-latest-poll-tracker-tories-labour

Oh well Geoff, I was wrong on that a point but it’s a significant shift.

 

Seems a bit off you raging like this. 

[UpTheLeagueFox 11,385]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Oh well Geoff, I was wrong on that a point but it’s a significant shift.

Seems a bit off you raging like this. 

Hahaha not raging at all, blimey I've even quoted the Grauniad 

 

As for significant shift, depends when you compare it to.

Tories polling higher than the GE and Labour about the same.

Lies, damned lies and statistics etc etc

[Cardiff_Fox 6,704]

3 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Hahaha not raging at all, blimey I've even quoted the Grauniad 

 

As for significant shift, depends when you compare it to.

Tories polling higher than the GE and Labour about the same.

Lies, damned lies and statistics etc etc

I actually think the most worrying of any poll is the survey conducted by Daily Mail which was in the paper today. Although obvs the Mail has influenced that with their telling of the coverage 

[The Horse's Mouth 2,868]

Polls mean **** all at this point anyway let's be honest, no way we have an early election again with the amount of power the Tories have now

Edited 27 May 2020 by The Horse's Mouth

[Guest Markyblue]

9 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Polls mean **** all at this point anyway let's be honest, no way we have an early election again with the amount of power the Tories have now

A week is a long time in politics,  4 years is a lifetime. 

[Chocolate Teapot 4,353]

5 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

If this is the case it is both useless and immoral, as it will be driven purely by the press, and I seriously doubt there is a large appetite amongst the wider public to pick over the bones of this, especially as the financial costs continue to bite whilst the virus costs begin to dwindle. (But that is just my personal "feel")

 

In terms of review of all stages of the handling of this pandemic, it should be done as a very dry,  academic led study, and certainly not as a front page tabloid expose. I also think this story with DC will pass, there is only so much mileage, new elements it has. (Like it not, he has given his version of events)

Yep I think you're absolutely right - by the time the next election comes round the two biggest issues will have been and gone, Brexit and the pandemic.

 

What I imagine will be crucial will be the economy (as always), how brexit is managed and how we pay back all the damage to the economy. It sounds like that's going to be a real issue for the tories, as their members heavily oppose raising taxes and they think re-employing austerity will not be good news for the electorate. How Sunak navigates this will be a far bigger issue than the handling of the pandemic and DC's movement, but it may leave some scars. Be interesting to see how this goes.

Edited 27 May 2020 by Abrasive fox

[bovril 8,660]

Just now, Abrasive fox said:

Yep I think you're absolutely right - by the time the next election comes round the two biggest issues will have been and gone, Brexit and the pandemic.

 

What I imagine will be crucial will be the economy (as always), how we navigated brexit and how we pay back all the damage to the economy. It sounds like that's going to be a real issue for the tories, as their members heavily oppose raising taxes and they think re-employing austerity will not be good news for the electorate. How Sunak navigates this will be a far bigger issue than the handling of the pandemic and DC's movement, but it may leave some scars. Be interesting to see how this is navigated.

Lots of navigation in there.

[Chocolate Teapot 4,353]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

Lots of navigation in there.

Just read that back, it reads terribly. Ha, should really proof read this! Getting the thesaurus out as we speak.