The Politics Thread 2020

[StanSP]

Would love to know why Emily Maitlis has lost her slot on tonight's Newsnight's episode by BBC bosses but when Kuenssberg defends Cummings' actions she is also defended by BBC. 

 

Emily Maitlis didn't even say anything wrong

[Innovindil]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Would love to know why Emily Maitlis has lost her slot on tonight's Newsnight's episode by BBC bosses but when Kuenssberg defends Cummings' actions she is also defended by BBC. 

 

Emily Maitlis didn't even say anything wrong

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52824508

 

The BBC has said an introduction about Dominic Cummings on Tuesday's Newsnight did not meet the required standards of due impartiality.

 

Would probably guess this.

[StanSP]

Just now, Innovindil said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52824508

 

The BBC has said an introduction about Dominic Cummings on Tuesday's Newsnight did not meet the required standards of due impartiality.

 

Would probably guess this.

I think it's a bit harsh for her to lose the slot tonight in all honesty. I know they put that reasoning out but when you have people like Neil and Kuenssberg do their thing whilst not always showing impartiality and perhaps being even ruder than anything Maitlis has said you begin to wonder what's gone on behind the scenes here. Maybe it's just me! 

[Guesty]

57 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Would love to know why Emily Maitlis has lost her slot on tonight's Newsnight's episode by BBC bosses but when Kuenssberg defends Cummings' actions she is also defended by BBC. 

 

Emily Maitlis didn't even say anything wrong

I agree with everything Maitlis said. But I don't think she should have said it; and I think the BBC are right. It's Newsnight; not The Emily Maitlis Show. She's just a presenter.

 

If anything is going viral on social media from Newsnight, it should be an interview or investigative report. Not the presenter's opening monologue. She could have rephrased all of it slightly differently as a question - or said it as she interviewed someone. This isn't the first time I've seen one of her monlogues go viral appealing to people's emotions. I think sometimes in the age of social media some journalists want the celebrity/attention. But you can trade attention for respect. If Newsnight wants to hold itself to a higher standard, it has to stick to their rules; if it wants to be seen as a jokey light-hearted news programme then I'd have more sympathy - a bit like This Week. But serious news programmes on the BBC have impartiality rules; she could say this sort of thing in other outlets.

 

Kuenssberg is always quoting stories or sources; she never really gives an opinion - even if she is biased. Maitlis could have said something similar using the same tactics Kuenssberg does. I think Maitlis lost her slot just to stop the drama; not as punishment.

 

The BBC has enough problems about being seen as impartial. Sometimes it's partisan rubbish; but sometimes they do make mistakes. It's alright for Maitlis to say this: she get's to sit in a studio. There are juniour reporters, cameramen, photographers who work for the BBC who have to deal with the fall out of this on the front line.

 

 

Edited 27 May 2020 by Guesty

[foxile5]

37 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I think it's a bit harsh for her to lose the slot tonight in all honesty. I know they put that reasoning out but when you have people like Neil and Kuenssberg do their thing whilst not always showing impartiality and perhaps being even ruder than anything Maitlis has said you begin to wonder what's gone on behind the scenes here. Maybe it's just me! 

Harsh? 

 

She's lost her job for being openly suggestive of guilt. He's kept his whilst being largely accepted of being guilty. 

 

I do understand the need for being apolitical but ****ing hell. The man claimed to be driving forty five minutes each way to test his eyes. Most people do accept his guilt. The tory party are literally arguing about his guilt. 

 

Poor woman

 

Edited 27 May 2020 by foxile5

[Dr The Singh]

BBC impartial my arse

[hackneyfox]

Government just keep getting grubbier:

Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick has accepted he approved a £1bn east London housing development unlawfully.

The 1,500-home development on the Isle of Dogs, Tower Hamlets, was approved on 14 January - the day before community charges placed on developments were increased.

The timing of the decision meant Conservative Party donor Richard Desmond avoided paying around £40m.

Mr Jenrick accepted his decision was unlawful but denies any bias.

The government's own planning inspector advised against the scheme saying it needed to deliver more affordable housing in what is London's poorest borough.

The inspector also said that with buildings up to 44 storeys high, the development harmed the character of the area and views of Tower Bridge.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52826751

 

 

[leicsmac]

9 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

If the polarization were such an issue (and I do believe the US media play a big part as an often despicable third party with their sensationalist and selective take on issues), then how come US crime rates have decreased lately?

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2019-preliminary-semiannual-uniform-crime-report-released-012120

Crime rates since 2017 have gone down each year (with the odd exception in the report on 2017).

 

All of that whilst the US population keeps increasing, it rose by three million in between 2017 and 2019.

As for the Yahoo UK report, just google it ("Minneapolis, looting").

https://www.google.com/search?q=minneapolis+looting&client=safari&rls=en&sxsrf=ALeKk02tDQmQ96vhlcOm8MqCGjeq0RvjhA:1590592471787&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWkY3aqtTpAhXKsaQKHWM1D0kQ_AUoAnoECAsQBA&biw=1440&bih=789

 

Maybe this one works:

https://newsone.com/playlist/minneapolis-george-floyd-police-protest-photos-video/

"Some reports of vandalism and looting", that are unsubstantiated. Fair enough - it's certainly possible, but personally I'm going to wait for more information on this one before deciding either way.

 

What does crime rate have to do directly and solely with increased polarisation? Obvious "gish gallop" is obvious, let's not go down that road.

 

I stand by what I said in that there is a massive double standard in the way two different groups of protestors have been treated based on their skin colour as opposed to their behaviour.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52821304

 

I wonder what Twitter will do here?

 

On the one hand, stopping pushing for impartiality and thus going after Toupee45 would be bad PR after the effort they have put into it all. On the other, this kind of controversy means lots more clicks, which means more money, so letting the man have free reign must appeal too.

 

Regarding the topic itself - Twitter is a private platform which means any guarantee of absolutely "free speech" is ridiculous, and Trump said - very clearly - that mail-in ballots will (not may) lead to voter fraud. The latter ("may") is perhaps true, the former ("will") is not and is blatant deliberately phrased misinformation and Twitter were right to label it as such.

 

NB. Centralised voting, while theoretically ideal in terms of preventing fraud, is easier to suppress via limiting access in terms of transport, valid ID and thus overall availability - especially in a country with size and wealth disparity like the US.

 

Edited 28 May 2020 by leicsmac

[Stan]

Could any of the many Johnson supporters on here explain which of his leadership qualities they admire most?

Edited 28 May 2020 by Stan

[WigstonWanderer]

Really hope that the UK Test and Trace system works out, but I’m surprised Matt Hancock could keep a straight face while launching it when asking infected people to stay at home, “it is your civic duty”. Of course this is right, but the message has been spectacularly undermined.

 

I hope that people will comply despite Johnson, Cummings and Gove, et al.

[Dahnsouff]

The mindset that "cos Cummings did it, I can" is beyond my intellect to understand I am afraid, as it just feels like selfishness dressed up as civic objection. 

[RobHawk]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The mindset that "cos Cummings did it, I can" is beyond my intellect to understand I am afraid, as it just feels like selfishness dressed up as civic objection. 

It's not those that are knowingly infected I worry about, it's those who feel ok, could be asymatic, and think there will be no harm done.

 

Here in Wales lockdown restrictions haven't been lifted at all yet but I've noticed a huge increase in the number of cars on the road and people in the shops.

 

People are definately being more relaxed, some of which will be lockdown fatigue but some will be people just thinking "it'll be alright" and #cumgate will have only fuelled this more relaxed mindset.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, RobHawk said:

It's not those that are knowingly infected I worry about, it's those who feel ok, could be asymatic, and think there will be no harm done.

 

Here in Wales lockdown restrictions haven't been lifted at all yet but I've noticed a huge increase in the number of cars on the road and people in the shops.

 

People are definately being more relaxed, some of which will be lockdown fatigue but some will be people just thinking "it'll be alright" and #cumgate will have only fuelled this more relaxed mindset.

Fair enough, but those people have been getting out more have been doing so for a while now, and there has definitely been more cars on the roads for the last few weeks, at least around here. 

Certainly people are fatigued with the lockdown restrictions so are starting to stretch their definition - and sure #cumgate won't have helped, but I could never hold it solely responsible.

[RobHawk]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Fair enough, but those people have been getting out more have been doing so for a while now, and there has definitely been more cars on the roads for the last few weeks, at least around here. 

Certainly people are fatigued with the lockdown restrictions so are starting to stretch their definition - and sure #cumgate won't have helped, but I could never hold it solely responsible.

No I agree it's not solely responsible, but as you say it doesn't help. 

 

The biggest worry is that with the new track and trace program, people just never really get on board with it. For the track and trace to work it requires people to actually comply but people are already wondering why they should bother . The trust in the government has plummeted. 

 

And with all that in mind, let's not forget that a fair proportion of the population are idiots anyway.

[CosbehFox]

I really hope for the sake of society this Track and Trace app appears to work (Sky News were claiming last night it doesn’t) cos another disaster could see partisans within the public throttling each other. 

That Hancock wouldn’t clarify the data issue with it yesterday hardly gives you confidence.

 

Just on the Maitlis case I strongly suspect she decided to take the night off because of a death threat or the wave of abuse she received

 

Edited 28 May 2020 by Cardiff_Fox

[RobHawk]

I've bit read extensively into the track and trace app as it doesn't apply here in Wales yet anyway.

 

But I read earlier that if you come into close contact with someone with Corona you will have to isolate for 14 days even if you don't have symptoms. 

 

What I don't understand is what happens if it's confirmed someone has been in a shop, are all the staff on the shop floor expected to isolate?

 

It could be shutting down shops through lack of staff at this rate.

[MC Prussian]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52821304

 

I wonder what Twitter will do here?

 

On the one hand, stopping pushing for impartiality and thus going after Toupee45 would be bad PR after the effort they have put into it all. On the other, this kind of controversy means lots more clicks, which means more money, so letting the man have free reign must appeal too.

 

Regarding the topic itself - Twitter is a private platform which means any guarantee of absolutely "free speech" is ridiculous, and Trump said - very clearly - that mail-in ballots will (not may) lead to voter fraud. The latter ("may") is perhaps true, the former ("will") is not and is blatant deliberately phrased misinformation and Twitter were right to label it as such.

 

NB. Centralised voting, while theoretically ideal in terms of preventing fraud, is easier to suppress via limiting access in terms of transport, valid ID and thus overall availability - especially in a country with size and wealth disparity like the US.

 

You don't seem to get that Trump was stating an opinion, not fact.

Just like every other Twitter user.

 

Twitter themselves say that as long as you don't target an individual repeatedly, this is just fine and everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

It's not as if Twitter aren't innocent in all of this: They have a very odd way of moderating tweets, and tend to allow more leeway on the left than on the right (I'm not talking about extremist views here).

As somebody else once said: If Twitter disappeared overnight, the world would be a better place. Twitter is toxic, Twitter is an absolute trash heap of people swinging their useless opinions around.

 

As for centralized voting, it's not perfect, sure. There's voting suppression, as demonstrated in 2016 in California:

https://www.aclu.org/blog/voting-rights/fighting-voter-suppression/were-suing-california-because-it-threw-out-more-45000

I just find the timing rather odd now. I'm all up for a thorough voting system reform in the US - right after the elections.

You don't get there with a hasty decision within less than six months (before November 2020).

Edited 28 May 2020 by MC Prussian

[Dahnsouff]

Is there a more likeable, honest seeming national leader out there than Jacinda Ardern. The bit about the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny just been classified as Key Workers (Whilst addressing the children of NZ) was particularly sweet.

But I am a soft old tart 

Edited 28 May 2020 by Dahnsouff

[StanSP]

28 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Is there a more likeable, honest seeming national leader out there than Jacinda Ardern. The bit about the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny just been classified as Key Workers (Whilst addressing the children of NZ) was particularly sweet.

But I am a soft old tart 

Nah she shows humility and compassion. This is just from the clips we see but she has that air of composure about her too. Doesn't seem to get rattled or drawn in to mind games. As you say too, honest. 

[RobHawk]

39 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

You don't seem to get that Trump was stating an opinion, not fact.

Just like every other Twitter user.

 

Twitter themselves say that as long as you don't target an individual repeatedly, this is just fine and everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

It's not as if Twitter aren't innocent in all of this: They have a very odd way of moderating tweets, and tend to allow more leeway on the left than on the right (I'm not talking about extremist views here).

As somebody else once said: If Twitter disappeared overnight, the world would be a better place. Twitter is toxic, Twitter is an absolute trash heap of people swinging their useless opinions around.

 

As for centralized voting, it's not perfect, sure. There's voting suppression, as demonstrated in 2016 in California:

https://www.aclu.org/blog/voting-rights/fighting-voter-suppression/were-suing-california-because-it-threw-out-more-45000

I just find the timing rather odd now. I'm all up for a thorough voting system reform in the US - right after the elections.

You don't get there with a hasty decision within less than six months (before November 2020).

Twitter can do what they like, it's their platform, if people including the potus don't like it, they should just leave. You can't really say they are guilty of anything other than running the platform how they wish.

 

People have a choice to use it or not. Same with Facebook, Instagram and all the others. 

 

I agree the world would be a better place without it though, but my world is Twitter free coz I don't use it.

[MC Prussian]

4 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

Twitter can do what they like, it's their platform, if people including the potus don't like it, they should just leave. You can't really say they are guilty of anything other than running the platform how they wish.

 

People have a choice to use it or not. Same with Facebook, Instagram and all the others. 

 

I agree the world would be a better place without it though, but my world is Twitter free coz I don't use it.

Oh, definitely.

 

Sadly, we as a society and the media are putting too much emphasis on what people are saying (not just on Twitter) instead of what people (not just politicians) are doing.

Twitter's just the convenient excuse for the media not to do any proper journalism and the convenient excuse for people not to engage in a proper, personal debate.

It's mad.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Is there a more likeable, honest seeming national leader out there than Jacinda Ardern. The bit about the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny just been classified as Key Workers (Whilst addressing the children of NZ) was particularly sweet.

But I am a soft old tart 

They have an election this year and before this crisis she was 5 points down in their polls, she's now 30 ahead. Pretty incredible, she's had to deal with several terrible events and she's shown outstanding leadership throughout them both. New Zealanders are extremely lucky to have her! 

[CosbehFox]

22 minutes ago, Lionator said:

They have an election this year and before this crisis she was 5 points down in their polls, she's now 30 ahead. Pretty incredible, she's had to deal with several terrible events and she's shown outstanding leadership throughout them both. New Zealanders are extremely lucky to have her! 

I think she ultimately shows what display a human empathy makes people think of you. I do wonder whether that could be the next step what will burst the culture war era of British politics right now. 

[Facecloth]

18 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I think she ultimately shows what display a human empathy makes people think of you. I do wonder whether that could be the next step what will burst the culture war era of British politics right now. 

I think a lack of empathy is part of what started the fall of Theresa May. At Grenfell plenty picked up on how she struggled to show a caring side. Even if it was there she struggled to show it. There were obviously many other things that forced her out, but that was the start of people turning against her I think.