Coronavirus Thread

[SpacedX]

10 hours ago, marbles said:

CIA was behind the crack epidemic in the US

Posted the above prematurely by accident - meant to hit the quote button and clicked on submit reply instead.

 

To continue -

 

Again, this was not actually a conspiracy theory and this is very inaccurately phrased. The CIA backing of the Contras war effort against the Sandanistas allowed the trafficking of Cocaine largely from Columbia into the US to continue - this was later admitted by the CIA in 1998 I believe. However, nowhere in Gary Webb's investigative journalism was it shown that the CIA were directly responsible for the crack epidemic, let alone that they intentionally sold the drug. However this was the narrative that was picked up in populist circles and public consciousness/imagination. 'Dark Alliance' was also one of the first pieces of investigative journalism to hit the internet and rapidly went viral appealing to radicals, newscasters and networks, political opponents and...the rapidly  emerging lucrative industry that is conspiracy theory. 

 

10 hours ago, marbles said:

.US govt poisoning of alcohol during prohibition 

Actually the bootleggers were partly to blame for many deaths. However, in 1926, the federal government's “Noble Experiment,” sanctioned adding poisons such as methanol to industrial alcohol so as to discourage people from drinking it. Again, not a conspiracy theory.

 

10 hours ago, marbles said:

Twitter actually was shadow banning

Eh? So what? I don't actually use Twitter/X, so can't comment on that, but You Tube have been doing it for years in their comments section. It's simply a very crude and unsophisticated spam filter that appears to indiscriminately remove posts from visibility based upon a defective broken algorithm. It happens to everyone, particularly when posting links. How is this a conspiracy theory? 

 

 

Should we trust our governments? No. Patriotism, as far as I am concerned, involves distrusting the government. Keep them in check. They are our employees...they are to represent us, yet they are frequently self-serving. But that distrust is pointless if we're fooled into thinking that our government is always up to something and yet we can't discern when it is, and when it isn't - or detracts from genuine corruption or duplicity. Of course governments/agencies/organisations lie, deceive and conspire. No one in their right mind would suggest otherwise. But simply because they do that does not then logically follow that claims of a moon landing hoax for example, or any random conspiracy theory of one's arbitrary choosing, devising or consequence of personal bias/agenda should automatically be assumed to be true. A lazy syllogistic fallacy. 

 

[marbles]

Maybe you and I have different opinions on conspiracy theories @Line-X 

Or I’m misunderstanding your replies to my examples.

 

My examples were denied initially and discounted by claiming they were just “conspiracy theories” - later to be admitted to or proven true.

 

As for Twitter - it is a prime example of what I’m trying to say.

For years people claimed they were being shadow banned.  Twitter execs even went on Joe Rohan and said “nonsense.  It’s just a conspiracy theory created by certain individuals”.

Lo and behold - it was true.

 

So in recap

People made a claim against Twitter

Execs called it a falsehood spread by conspiracy theorists

It ended up being true.

 

Just another example of what I’m trying to explain.

Edited 10 August 2023 by marbles

[marbles]

8 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I’ll wait for @line-x to deal with these examples because I have a bit of a day upcoming !  My initial take is that some of these were  not conspiracy theories - govt secrecy is sometimes necessary under the cover of national security rather than being something more sinister 

 

I assume your illustrations are all in the states because that’s where you live 

 

 

Whether it’s part of national security or not, it’s still the same.

Something was going on.

Someone found out or made a lucky guess about it

They were discredited by calling it a “conspiracy theory”

The truth eventually came out.

 

My point is (which I’m thinking people on here are not getting or I’m not doing a good job of conveying) is….Some things identified as being spewed by a conspiracy theorists, COULD be true.  Because the guilty party are quick to label someone a conspiracy theorist as a fast and easy way to discredit them.  

In no way am I saying all theories are true or even have a basis in truth.  All I’m saying, is don’t be so quick to buy into a narrative. 

[marbles]

Anyways, I really didnt want to sidetrack this thread and I’m sorry for having done so.

 

 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, marbles said:

Anyways, I really didnt want to sidetrack this thread and I’m sorry for having done so.

 

 

I think they are how  a sig part of society views covid and why is v important 

Edited 10 August 2023 by st albans fox

[SpacedX]

6 minutes ago, marbles said:

Maybe you and I have different opinions on conspiracy theories @Line-X 

Or I’m misunderstanding your replies to my examples.

Those were denied initially and discounted by claiming they were just “conspiracy theories” - later to be admitted to or proven true.

Maybe you and I have different opinions upon what constitutes "being proven true". To clarify:

 

As explained, the suggestion that the Roswell debris was anything other than a downed weather balloon and your claim that "Roswell was not a weather balloon" has not contrary to your claim, been 'proven true'. 

 

Indeed the US has investigated UFOs. So what? This has been known since Project Bluebook. Upon its termination the official public summary stated that there was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as "unidentified" were extraterrestrial vehicle - as is the case today in respect of the AITP. What is alleged by conspiracy theorists is that the government are concealing and hiding evidence of extraterrestrial visitations, contact and reverse engineering captured and stockpiled alien technology for which again there is zero in the way of supporting evidence. 

 

To reiterate, there was no conspiracy theory alleging the existence of Project Sunshine which was a classified project. There may well have been leaks, but that is like saying that conspiracy theory was right about the Manhattan Project even though there weren't any, and simply because there were breaches in security.

 

Similarly, the support and maintaining of drug cartel trafficking routes to fund the Contras was not a conspiracy theory, rather, a brilliant piece of investigative journalism - 'The Dark Alliance'. The claim that "The CIA was behind the crack epidemic of the USA", is however a hell of a stretch, pure populist conspiracy theory and utterly disingenuous.

 

During the Prohibition/Noble Experiment, the trade in unregulated alcohol had grave consequences for public health. As the trade in illegal alcohol became more lucrative, the quality of alcohol on the black market declined. On average, 1000 Americans died every year during the Prohibition from the effects of drinking tainted liquor. Against the  backdrop, yes it is true that the Federal Government did indeed poison some alcohol in 1926. Again, there was no conspiracy theory about this. Even claims that at first sound conspiratorial can be rooted in well-documented history and records. The federal government sometimes proved willing to go to unethical lengths to prevent alcohol consumption. While the government never directly poisoned drinking alcohol, it did take steps to ensure that toxic chemicals were included in industrial alcohols that were known to be used by bootleggers. 

 

Shadow banning is no revelation. I'm not surprised that Twitter has introduced it and I wasn't aware that it had been denied? Even if it has, conspiracy theory? Really? That's a tad lame ad clutching at straws if you don't mind me saying. 

 

 

[SpacedX]

20 minutes ago, marbles said:

Anyways, I really didnt want to sidetrack this thread and I’m sorry for having done so.

 

 

No issues here, you are simply discussing a topic in a civil manner which is relatable to the thread and engaging in healthy discourse. You're right, it probably belongs on the 'tin foil hat' thread. 

[Izzy]

Just had 24 hours from hell and tested positive for Covid.

 

What was interesting is my symptoms were exactly the same as the side effects I had following my first vaccination.

 

Shivering, cold sweats, piecing headaches, and throwing up bright green bile 

 

Feeling a bit better now and staring to eat/drink a little but those 24 hours were fvcking horrible.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Just had 24 hours from hell and tested positive for Covid.

 

What was interesting is my symptoms were exactly the same as the side effects I had following my first vaccination.

 

Shivering, cold sweats, piecing headaches, and throwing up bright green bile 

 

Feeling a bit better now and staring to eat/drink a little but those 24 hours were fvcking horrible.

Is it the first time you’ve had covid? 

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

Is it the first time you’ve had covid? 

Yes mate.

 

I'm in the 'vulnerable' group as I take immunosuppressants so I've always been first to have all the vaccinations and boosters.

 

Just found it interesting that the symptoms I had yesterday were identical to the side effects I had from the very first vaccination (I had no other side effects from the following three jabs)

 

Honestly felt fvcking terrible. It was horrible.

 

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Yes mate.

 

I'm in the 'vulnerable' group as I take immunosuppressants so I've always been first to have all the vaccinations and boosters.

 

Just found it interesting that the symptoms I had yesterday were identical to the side effects I had from the very first vaccination (I had no other side effects from the following three jabs)

 

Honestly felt fvcking terrible. It was horrible.

 

Sounds awful, immune systems are weird especially I guess if yours isn’t working at optimal level. 
 

At least it probably won’t be as bad if you ever catch it again, first infection are pretty much always the worst unless you’re unlucky. 

[Izzy]

Interesting. Three days in and I'm still feeling RAF 

 

What you need to know about Covid as new variant rises

The number of people in hospital has gone up. Google searches have doubled in a month and booster vaccines have been brought forward because of a new variant.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66848549

[Zear0]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Interesting. Three days in and I'm still feeling RAF 

 

What you need to know about Covid as new variant rises

The number of people in hospital has gone up. Google searches have doubled in a month and booster vaccines have been brought forward because of a new variant.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66848549

Just flu mate

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, Zear0 said:

Just flu mate

 

Ngl mate thought i was gonna die those first 24 hours. Fvck me I've never felt so ill.

[Zear0]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

Ngl mate thought i was gonna die those first 24 hours. Fvck me I've never felt so ill.

Grim ain't it. Bracing myself to get it again as I really suffered 18 months ago and it's the worst I've ever felt. 

[Izzy]

2 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Grim ain't it. Bracing myself to get it again as I really suffered 18 months ago and it's the worst I've ever felt. 

Must admit I was a bit guilty of 'it's only flu' back in the day but now I've had it I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Fvcking horrible thing.

 

Hope you manage to avoid it 

[Leeds Fox]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Must admit I was a bit guilty of 'it's only flu' back in the day but now I've had it I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Fvcking horrible thing.

 

Hope you manage to avoid it 

To be fair, flu (proper flu, not a cold) is absolutely horrid. 

[Brizzle Fox]

I've got Covid for the first time (that I know off). Feels like flu on steroids.

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, Brizzle Fox said:

I've got Covid for the first time (that I know off). Feels like flu on steroids.

It's rank ain't it? I know a few mates and colleagues who've also got it and that article I posted earlier suggests it's on the rise again. Hope you fee better soon 

[Brizzle Fox]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

It's rank ain't it? I know a few mates and colleagues who've also got it and that article I posted earlier suggests it's on the rise again. Hope you fee better soon 

Thanks Izzy. I foolishly thought I would never get it I think 

 

[CosbehFox]

Latest variant is defo causing a spike. My only observation over nothing other than those I know who’ve had it recently. If you’ve had covid a couple of times, it seems to quickly get in and get out. Those who haven’t had or had covid from the earlier stages, it hits them bad 

[dsr-burnley]

3 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

To be fair, flu (proper flu, not a cold) is absolutely horrid. 

Depends how badly you get it.  Like all viruses, including covid, if you get a small dose it's not bad or even not noticeable; if you get a big dose, it's a whole lot worse.

[Leeds Fox]

36 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Depends how badly you get it.  Like all viruses, including covid, if you get a small dose it's not bad or even not noticeable; if you get a big dose, it's a whole lot worse.

Yeah of course. I just know that I’ve had flu that was horrible, I had Covid too which was just as bad in fairness. Not in a hurry to have either again. 

[FoyleFox]

What do people consider the protocol or appropriate action if you've got Covid now? Are people isolating and/or their household?

 

One of our footie group arrived on Saturday and said their partner tested positive during the week. Partner isn't well so is at home. Mate cancelled a visit to elderly (ish) parents but came out with us. I'd sort of assumed people would still stay at home. 

 

Given we're being told this is a new bad version, I wasn't sure how to feel about their decision. I know we can't do the whole hide away forever but surely we should show some caution. 

 

My primary concern was they could not have it but, still pass it to me and I've to take my very elderly parents to hospital appointments this week. So can't avoid them to be sure. 

[fox_favourite]

2 hours ago, FoyleFox said:

What do people consider the protocol or appropriate action if you've got Covid now? Are people isolating and/or their household?

 

One of our footie group arrived on Saturday and said their partner tested positive during the week. Partner isn't well so is at home. Mate cancelled a visit to elderly (ish) parents but came out with us. I'd sort of assumed people would still stay at home. 

 

Given we're being told this is a new bad version, I wasn't sure how to feel about their decision. I know we can't do the whole hide away forever but surely we should show some caution. 

 

My primary concern was they could not have it but, still pass it to me and I've to take my very elderly parents to hospital appointments this week. So can't avoid them to be sure. 

The official line from the government is basically to use your common sense, which a few don't have. My wife's work has said to treat it like flu or any other illness.

 

Me, I'd be cautious to go out to group settings as I wouldn't want others to have it. I probably ask to WFH  until I was better as I wouldn't want the team off with it either.