Coronavirus Thread

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

are you able to provide us some direct links to this  evidence, please? I’d be very interested to read it.

As would a few folks, I think.

[yorkie1999]

4 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

are you able to provide us some direct links to this  evidence, please? I’d be very interested to read it.

There is no evidence of anything, only likelihood, no one actually knows, even the chinese say it was brought into their country. 

[MPH]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

There is no evidence of anything, only likelihood, no one actually knows, even the chinese say it was brought into their country. 

 

yes I know. I’m just wanting someone who claims the evidence is overwhelming to show us why he is making such a claim.

[yorkie1999]

14 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

yes I know. I’m just wanting someone who claims the evidence is overwhelming to show us why he is making such a claim.

Well, you could argue the evidence is overwhelming due to lack of evidence to refute such claims.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well, you could argue the evidence is overwhelming due to lack of evidence to refute such claims.

...that's not how burden of proof works.

 

Someone making the claim needs to back it up, rather than just pointing out "hey, you can't prove it isn't true so it must be true".

[marbles]

21 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

yes I know. I’m just wanting someone who claims the evidence is overwhelming to show us why he is making such a claim.

Gimme a minute.

Editing Wikipedia takes time.  I’ll be done shortly 

[yorkie1999]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

...that's not how burden of proof works.

 

Someone making the claim needs to back it up, rather than just pointing out "hey, you can't prove it isn't true so it must be true".

Well you can, i smoke 20 cigerettes a day and each cigerette reduces my life by 5 minutes.

[MPH]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well you can, i smoke 20 cigerettes a day and each cigerette reduces my life by 5 minutes.

 

But you’d only know that if you had a certain date that you knew you were going to die on..

 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

 

But you’d only know that if you had a certain date that you knew you were going to die on..

 

That's the point.

[Trav Le Bleu]

10 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

If you repeat a lie often enough, or indeed it is repeated to you often enough, it will eventually be believed. 

I blame Wellens.

[dsr-burnley]

8 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...that's not how burden of proof works.

 

Someone making the claim needs to back it up, rather than just pointing out "hey, you can't prove it isn't true so it must be true".

True.  But as Rebekah Vardy found out, sometimes a defence of "you don't have the evidence to convict me, and I would have had the evidence to prove me innocent except that I dropped it in the sea" doesn't convince.  

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

True.  But as Rebekah Vardy found out, sometimes a defence of "you don't have the evidence to convict me, and I would have had the evidence to prove me innocent except that I dropped it in the sea" doesn't convince.  

When you're dealing with a lower burden of proof in a civil trial, certainly. But not in a criminal case.

 

However, I will refer to Hanlons Razor once again that applies anywhere: "that which is asserted without evidence should be dismissed without evidence".

[st albans fox]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

However, I will refer to Hanlons Razor once again that applies anywhere: "that which is asserted without evidence should be dismissed without evidence".

Unless it’s in the transfer forum. ??? 

Edited 5 July 2023 by st albans fox

[st albans fox]

why was line-x ‘s response to sim’s post removed - it was informative and relevant and I didn’t notice anything aggressive in it .

 

similarly I posted about excess death rates and comparisons  - what was wrong with that ?  
 

Fair enough my flat earth rubbish was removed as it added nothing. 

[yorkie1999]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

When you're dealing with a lower burden of proof in a civil trial, certainly. But not in a criminal case.

 

However, I will refer to Hanlons Razor once again that applies anywhere: "that which is asserted without evidence should be dismissed without evidence".

Hitchens

[filbertway]

To be fair it'd be mad if there was any obvious and conclusive evidence of a lab leak

 

I'm very sure most governments would look to clean that one up, you don't want to be known as the country that accidentally started a global pandemic. Considering they would  be likely well aware of it before anyone in the west had even cottoned onto the issue. 

 

It would have to be accidental because nobody would be nuts enough to release a virus onto their own people and bring the world to a halt whilst potentially killing themselves, their friends and family.

[leicsmac]

40 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Hitchens

....shit, I got my "H" authors mixed up. You're right of course.

 

Hanlons is "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence", for anyone who wants to know.

[Dunge]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

....shit, I got my "H" authors mixed up. You're right of course.

 

Hanlons is "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence", for anyone who wants to know.

I just use an electric shaver.

[Wymsey]

It does annoy me very much that some people think Covid-19 was/is a 'myth'; especially as they've probably never experienced themselves first-hand the struggles of working in busy medical wards and seeing unfortunate patients sadly losing the war against it..

Edited 5 July 2023 by Wymsey

[simFox]

Crikey, there's books published on the subject. Have none of you read them? I don't want to quote direct from the books.

 

If it was zoonotic they would have found the evidence to support it, but they didn't find any. They tested thousands and thousands of animals from the wet market and the entire region and found no trace.

 

Couple that with the testing of previous outbreaks, it was everywhere. On the walls, on the animals, the people, work surfaces, all over.

 

I can start listing the evidence if you like. Maybe some of the clever scientists here will tell use how a furin clevege site appeared on a bat Corona virus? But no environmental trace!

[Zear0]

56 minutes ago, simFox said:

Crikey, there's books published on the subject. Have none of you read them? I don't want to quote direct from the books.

 

If it was zoonotic they would have found the evidence to support it, but they didn't find any. They tested thousands and thousands of animals from the wet market and the entire region and found no trace.

 

Couple that with the testing of previous outbreaks, it was everywhere. On the walls, on the animals, the people, work surfaces, all over.

 

I can start listing the evidence if you like. Maybe some of the clever scientists here will tell use how a furin clevege site appeared on a bat Corona virus? But no environmental trace!

Which books? 

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, simFox said:

Crikey, there's books published on the subject. Have none of you read them? I don't want to quote direct from the books.

 

There are indeed. You'll find that many who make claims have one to sell or a range of products to flog. 

 

1 hour ago, simFox said:

If it was zoonotic they would have found the evidence to support it, but they didn't find any. They tested thousands and thousands of animals from the wet market and the entire region and found no trace.

 

This is absolutely and completely false. 

 

There have been a multitude of studies which indicate a natural origin for Sars-CoV-2 and this data/literature has steadily grown in volume since the outbreak. Earlier this year a published study examines samples taken from raccoon dogs, bamboo rats, palm civets: (these are just some of the animals whose DNA has been found in swabs taken from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, China,) The swabs also tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, which causes the disease. The analysis, provides evidence supporting the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 spilled over from animals to humans at the market or possibly before.

 

Conversely, there is not one paper offering evidence that a lab leak was responsible to have passed peer review because the is no substantive data to support it. As mentioned previously  although the DOE have backed the recent FBI intelligence assessment indicating a lab leak, they have a 'low confidence level. According to guidance from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence: “A low confidence level generally indicates that the information used in the analysis is scant, questionable, fragmented, or that solid analytical conclusions cannot be inferred from the information, or that the IC has significant concerns or problems with the information sources.” Again, this does not mean that the possibility of a lab leak should be ruled out. As I and others have said may times on this thread, it's a very strong possibility that we won't ever determine the source. Pinpointing the site of a spillover is tricky and becomes increasingly challenging with time. Also, matching the genetics of those initially infected by Alpha with sequences derived from animals to isolate the host is a very difficult task. In terms of the lab leak possibility, as relationships between China and the West continue to deteriorate, the situation continues to be so politicised, and whilst Beijing refuses to cooperate the necessary transparency to allow an independent forensic investigation into research activities at WIV, we have nothing more than circumstantial supposition

 

1 hour ago, simFox said:

I can start listing the evidence if you like. Maybe some of the clever scientists here will tell use how a furin clevege site appeared on a bat Corona virus? But no environmental trace!

This was discussed in full two years ago on this thread when the spurious claims from Alina Chan first emerged. And yes, out of interest, surprise, surprise, she also has a book to sell. Perhaps that's what you were referring to? As explained innumerable times, the science is not in her favour. This is what she has said: 

 

“I think the lab origin is more likely than not. Right now it’s not safe for people who know about the origin of the pandemic to come forward. But we live in an era where there is so much information being stored that it will eventually come out."

“We have heard from many top virologists that a genetically engineered origin is reasonable and that includes virologists who made modifications to the first Sars virus. 

“We know this virus has a unique feature, called the furin cleavage site, and without this feature there is no way this would be causing this pandemic"

“A proposal was leaked showing that EcoHealth and the Wuhan Institute of Virology were developing a pipeline for inserting novel furin cleavage sites. So, you find these scientists who said in early 2018 ‘I’m going to put horns on horses’ and at the end of 2019 a unicorn turns up in Wuhan city.” 

 

Although the furin cleavage site is not found in the closest known relatives of SARS-CoV-2, this should not be unexpected because the lineage culminating in this virus is poorly sampled and the closest bat viruses have divergent spike proteins due to recombination. The suggestion that the Furin cleavage site is "a unique feature" is utterly disingenuous. Furin cleavage sites are scattered across the coronavirus family and present in their spike proteins. Simple evolutionary mechanisms routinely explain the evolution of an out-of-frame insertion of a furin cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2. This is nothing to do with allegations of towing the line or rubbishing alternative views - it's simply what the science tells us. 

 

Many other pathogens within the coronavirus family have furin cleavage sites, including the common cold. These viruses containing the site are strewn across the coronavirus family tree as opposed to being the preserve of closely related viruses. All prior research indicates that the site evolved multiple times in search of evolutionary advantage. What is known as convergent evolution, the process by which organisms that aren’t closely related independently evolve similar traits as a result of adapting to similar environmental circumstances is incredibly common.

 

Listen to what the science tells us as opposed to falsities and conjecture from individuals such as Alina Chan and Matt Ridley with a book to sell and a fanciful story to weave and engage. 

 

To reiterate and clarify yet again, people are not dismissing the lab leak possibility, because it is precisely that - a possibility. However, the evidence is circumstantial whilst the consilience across multiple related/cognate fields from the scientific evidence that we have is that it is of zoonotic origin. 

Edited 27 July 2023 by Line-X

[simFox]

If I had Corona virus and you sampled my cat, you would likely pick up a trace. I can't believe you've quoted Kristine Anderson's paper! It's not like he hasn't got a bias or anything.

 

Finding sampled that were on animals that were sold on the market is virtually meaningless. It wasn't found in the wet market or on any of the animals in the wet market. There was no trace. 

 

If it was there it would be be like catching a murderer with a smoking gun.

 

Furin clevege sites don't just appear in a NOVEL coronavirus. It was genetically manipulated, even the lying cluster of scientists themselves who released that paper in the Lancet have since had more emails released said so. Beyond what was initially released. Maybe see what was said.

 

It will all come out in the end. Just follow the money. Fauci should be in prison.

 

 

Edited 28 July 2023 by simFox

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, simFox said:

If I had Corona virus and you sampled my cat, you would likely pick up a trace. I can't believe you've quoted Kristine Anderson's paper! It's not like he hasn't got a bias or anything.

 

Finding sampled that were on animals that were sold on the market is virtually meaningless. It wasn't found in the wet market or on any of the animals in the wet market. There was no trace. 

 

If it was there it would be be like catching a murderer with a smoking gun.

 

Furin clevege sites don't just appear in a NOVEL coronavirus. It was genetically manipulated, even the lying cluster of scientists themselves who released that paper in the Lancet have since had more emails released said so. Beyond what was initially released. Maybe see what was said.

 

It will all come out in the end. Just follow the money. Fauci should be in prison.

 

 

Sorry, whose money are we following exactly? 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Sorry, whose money are we following exactly? 

Soros' for Agenda 2030, naturally.

 

On a more serious note, Hitchens Razor applies yet again here.