Brighton Pre-Match Thread

[Guest An Sionnach]

1 minute ago, deanolegend1989 said:

There is more to football than goals and assists..its about dominating the games by creating chances. We can pass the ball sideways and build possession stats all we like, it means nothing. Its about breaking down defences and having someone who has the ability to do that

I wouldn't disagree that he has the ability but he is rarely showing it and let us not forget he cost over £30 million.As I have said before if he had played this season up to his undoubted potential we would be five to ten points better off.

[deanolegend1989]

 

1 minute ago, An Sionnach said:

I wouldn't disagree that he has the ability but he is rarely showing it and let us not forget he cost over £30 million.As I have said before if he had played this season up to his undoubted potential we would be five to ten points better off.

An average to below par YT is far better than an 100% top of his game prime Praet or Hamza. They are limited players and persisting with them will mean continuing with our form since Xmas. We have an ok average squad of players with a few world class ones(YT, Ricardo and Vardy top bracket - Ndidi, Maddison and Chillwell not far behind). The reason Utd are improving now is because they have found a game changer(fernandes).

Wolves struggled the other night, Troare came on. game over. Hes a game changer.

No salah for Liverpool, they look blunt. hes a game changer.

 

Ours in YT, he can be pony for 80 mins but he can change a game and has a sprinkle of world class ablity. Its as simple as that. Hes vital to our chances.

[Danno]

12 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

 

An average to below par YT is far better than an 100% top of his game prime Praet or Hamza. They are limited players and persisting with them will mean continuing with our form since Xmas. We have an ok average squad of players with a few world class ones(YT, Ricardo and Vardy top bracket - Ndidi, Maddison and Chillwell not far behind). The reason Utd are improving now is because they have found a game changer(fernandes).

Wolves struggled the other night, Troare came on. game over. Hes a game changer.

No salah for Liverpool, they look blunt. hes a game changer.

 

Ours in YT, he can be pony for 80 mins but he can change a game and has a sprinkle of world class ablity. Its as simple as that. Hes vital to our chances.

Tielemans is miles off world class.. as is the rest of our squad apart from Ndidi and Pereira.

[Ric Flair]

37 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I worry more about Wolves than I do United, without European football to distract them, they're a force.

 

I think we've just got to hope that the other teams going for the top 4 just take points off each other, enough so that we can just scrape 2 wins and a couple of draws and that'll see us through. Hopefully Saturday was just a bit of rust and we'll come out playing good stuff tomorrow night.

Wolves are essentially 9 points behind us and don't get to play us again either, it's still a huge ask for them to overtake us and if they do then we really don't deserve it anyway. If they win all 8 then feasibly we still could have had a decent end to the season and they've pipped us but I highly doubt they win all 8, so for them to still catch us would mean we continue to struggle to win and then we deserve to be overtaken. 4 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats and I think we'd still be ok.

[deanolegend1989]

Youri is world class, hes just young and inconsistent. However he will grow into a top top player and play for an elite club. Vardy is world class but hes 33 and is not at his peak, but prime Vardy is a world class striker and a Premier League great. If he was 20-25 now he'd be worth 150 mill, absolutely no doubt about it.

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Wolves are essentially 9 points behind us and don't get to play us again either, it's still a huge ask for them to overtake us and if they do then we really don't deserve it anyway. If they win all 8 then feasibly we still could have had a decent end to the season and they've pipped us but I highly doubt they win all 8, so for them to still catch us would mean we continue to struggle to win and then we deserve to be overtaken. 4 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats and I think we'd still be ok.

If any of them catch us it'll be our own fault and we won't deserve Europe, but yeah I agree, it's a big ask for any of them to overtake us. 3 wins will be more than enough IMO. I just think Wolves will end up 5th rather than United.

[Grebfromgrebland]

I think we've been found out a bit this year and judging by the Watford game Brendan hasn't got any other ideas.

 

I would be genuinely surprised if we beat Brighton but I won't be surprised if we beat Chelsea.

[Nicolo Barella]

1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Its very conclusive to me. We are a completely different animal with him in the team. Its a bit like man Utd with fenandes. These players with a little extra are key to edging out average teams.

I remember seeing he wernt playing Vs Southampton at home and was really worried we wouldn't win - we didn't. I didn't watch it live though so thought Id reserve judgement.

Next week I saw the Burnley game and he wernt in and I thought 'here we go again lets see' and we lost again. he even came on and we looked more of a threat in his cameo chasing the game than the entire game before!

When he was back in the side vs West Ham I was expecting us to win and when we did , ever since its gone how I expected. We drew some tough games Vs Chelsea and wolves and lose to city..the next real sign was very Norwich, I was expecting a win and then hes not in the line up again..Suddenly I was certain we'd lose. Low and behold we lost again, but not only lost, we deserved to lost and looked absolutely toothless against the worst side in the division.

Its as simple as this, he is the reason we are top 3 and not 10-15th. Hes the first name on the teamsheet for me.

Alright, Southampton and Burnley we were missing Ndidi. The first game Tielemans missed was the one where he was rested against WHA, which we won. Southampton and Burnley, he had to be dropped because he wasn't defensively good enough without Ndidi. The only loss Tielemans misses with Ndidi in the team back fully is Norwich. The very next game, Tielemans also missed the majority of, in which we dominated Aston Villa 4-0.

 

Of the games Tielemans did start in this season, since our poor form has started, he has won 2, drew 3, lost 3. 

 

Games Tielemans started: 2:3:3

Games Tielemans did not start: 2:0:3

 

That, to me, doesn't particularly show Tielemans being some necessary key. In fact, we only lost 1 game with Ndidi and no Tielemans in the side.

 

 

Edited 22 June 2020 by Nicolo Barella

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

 

An average to below par YT is far better than an 100% top of his game prime Praet or Hamza. They are limited players and persisting with them will mean continuing with our form since Xmas. We have an ok average squad of players with a few world class ones(YT, Ricardo and Vardy top bracket - Ndidi, Maddison and Chillwell not far behind). The reason Utd are improving now is because they have found a game changer(fernandes).

Wolves struggled the other night, Troare came on. game over. Hes a game changer.

No salah for Liverpool, they look blunt. hes a game changer.

 

Ours in YT, he can be pony for 80 mins but he can change a game and has a sprinkle of world class ablity. Its as simple as that. Hes vital to our chances.

 

Are you YT's girlfriend?

 

Firstly Praet maybe a similar type of player to Tielemans but Choudhury certainly isn't so it's not really a simple comparison but I'd have to say that Praet has proven to be of about the same quality as Tielemans and this season has played better.

 

YT is certainly NOT world class, he's no KDB, he's a good player with some great qualities and he's young and therefore with the potential to improve further. He struggles severely when the pace is high, I'd go so far as to say that he needs a slower paced game to succeed and that is why he can look better in the last 15 minutes of a game when players are tired and the game is stretched giving him more room to make a pass - which is possibly his best skill.

 

He's certainly not our game changer. he looked like he could be at the end of last season but he has been underwhelming this season. I'm not even sure we'd have bought him if he'd played last season like he has this. In midfield I'd put him well behind Maddison (who is the closest to player type) and on a par with Praet who I'd play over him because of his added defensive capability. He isn't similar in style to N'Didi or Choudhury and I'd want both of them in my squad. Maybe he could also be also be compared to Mendy who is far better defensively but also capable of picking out a good pass, YT can shoot better than Mendy though, even if he hasn't really hit many good shots this season either.

 

In short, YT is a good player with very good potential who has underwhelmed this season, he really needs a good end to the season to even be seen as a first team regular next season in a midfield packed with talent.

[deanolegend1989]

9 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Alright, Southampton and Burnley we were missing Ndidi. The first game Tielemans missed was the one where he was rested against WHA, which we won. Southampton and Burnley, he had to be dropped because he wasn't defensively good enough without Ndidi. The only loss Tielemans misses with Ndidi in the team back fully is Norwich. The very next game, Tielemans also missed the majority of, in which we dominated Aston Villa 4-0.

 

Of the games Tielemans did start in this season, since our poor form has started, he has won 2, drew 3, lost 3. 

 

Games Tielemans started: 2:3:3

Games Tielemans did not start: 2:0:3

 

That, to me, doesn't particularly show Tielemans being some necessary key. In fact, we only lost 1 game with Ndidi and no Tielemans in the side.

 

 

That's dressing it up a lot. We didn't have to not play YT because Ndidi was out, its a total different decision. YT should be first name on the sheet, if Ndidi is out its YT and a another.

Also the game you mention Vs West Ham, he came on for Mendy after half hour so he was playing for a majority of that(dare I say it maybe we wouldn't of hammered them 4-1 had he not).

The villa game you mention, we were 2-0 up when he came on and won 4-0..we dominated the 2nd half but the first half we struggled as usual with no creativity and was lucky Riena gave us the lead to make it easier.

Facts are when YT isn't on from the start we look like we are treading water most of the time. We have absolutely nothing to offer with the rest of our midfield.

[deanolegend1989]

5 minutes ago, FIF said:

 

Are you YT's girlfriend?

 

Firstly Praet maybe a similar type of player to Tielemans but Choudhury certainly isn't so it's not really a simple comparison but I'd have to say that Praet has proven to be of about the same quality as Tielemans and this season has played better.

 

YT is certainly NOT world class, he's no KDB, he's a good player with some great qualities and he's young and therefore with the potential to improve further. He struggles severely when the pace is high, I'd go so far as to say that he needs a slower paced game to succeed and that is why he can look better in the last 15 minutes of a game when players are tired and the game is stretched giving him more room to make a pass - which is possibly his best skill.

 

He's certainly not our game changer. he looked like he could be at the end of last season but he has been underwhelming this season. I'm not even sure we'd have bought him if he'd played last season like he has this. In midfield I'd put him well behind Maddison (who is the closest to player type) and on a par with Praet who I'd play over him because of his added defensive capability. He isn't similar in style to N'Didi or Choudhury and I'd want both of them in my squad. Maybe he could also be also be compared to Mendy who is far better defensively but also capable of picking out a good pass, YT can shoot better than Mendy though, even if he hasn't really hit many good shots this season either.

 

In short, YT is a good player with very good potential who has underwhelmed this season, he really needs a good end to the season to even be seen as a first team regular next season in a midfield packed with talent.

Quite possibly the worst post I have ever heard haha. Praet is absolutely awful really, he offers nothing. Fair play to the lad he gives it his all but hes just not good enough and is a squad player.

Did you honestly just compare YT to Mendy!? HAHA. Hilarious post. I think a lot of fans seem to be so far off its incredible.

Seem to prefer average players who will end up doing nothing in their careers over true top players.

Praet is more similar to Hamza than YT - I.E hustle bustle but not much actual talent. can 'do a job' but will not win you games. YT is a match winner, hes not even in the same sentence as them. Lets just hope Brendan doesn't start putting him on the bench again and ****ing up from a great spot like he did with Liverpool.

I guarantee is YT is on the bench vs Brighton we wont win. 100%.

[Nicolo Barella]

5 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

That's dressing it up a lot. We didn't have to not play YT because Ndidi was out, its a total different decision. YT should be first name on the sheet, if Ndidi is out its YT and a another.

Also the game you mention Vs West Ham, he came on for Mendy after half hour so he was playing for a majority of that(dare I say it maybe we wouldn't of hammered them 4-1 had he not).

The villa game you mention, we were 2-0 up when he came on and won 4-0..we dominated the 2nd half but the first half we struggled as usual with no creativity and was lucky Riena gave us the lead to make it easier.

Facts are when YT isn't on from the start we look like we are treading water most of the time. We have absolutely nothing to offer with the rest of our midfield.

Why is it a total different decision? The only reason we can play such attacking players as Maddison and Tielemans is because of Ndidi. Even Man City have started to drop off as Fernandinho has been less useful to them. Without Ndidi, Tielemans and Maddison become an unbalancing factor. One has to go, and usually the consistent one is picked. Which is Maddison.

 

Also, Tielemans didn't come on for Mendy when we beat WHU 2-1. In the 4-1 game, Tielemans started, which I included in the 2 games he played in which we won since Norwich. And the he where he came on when we were 2-0 up, we had been playing well and deserved to be 2-0 up. I won't deny that he can be very useful in certain situations, particularly when the game is very open. But he is not some deity for our team.

 

And that doesn't change our team's form with him in and out of it... He doesn't have a huge effect either way. 

[Nicolo Barella]

11 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Quite possibly the worst post I have ever heard haha. Praet is absolutely awful really, he offers nothing. Fair play to the lad he gives it his all but hes just not good enough and is a squad player.

Did you honestly just compare YT to Mendy!? HAHA. Hilarious post. I think a lot of fans seem to be so far off its incredible.

Seem to prefer average players who will end up doing nothing in their careers over true top players.

Praet is more similar to Hamza than YT - I.E hustle bustle but not much actual talent. can 'do a job' but will not win you games. YT is a match winner, hes not even in the same sentence as them. Lets just hope Brendan doesn't start putting him on the bench again and ****ing up from a great spot like he did with Liverpool.

I guarantee is YT is on the bench vs Brighton we wont win. 100%.

Praet is absolutely good you're chatting shite. I won't compare Tielemans to Mendy or whatever but you can't deny that Praet has been extremely useful and a great addition to pressure and rotate Tielemans and Maddison with.

[Tom12345]

On 21/06/2020 at 16:57, Foxin_Mad said:

We have Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, Sheff Utd and Man Utd. We would be hard pushed to get much return on those games unless our performance levels return to the early season levels where we actually try to score a goal. Before lockdown with the exception of the Villa game we had been pretty dire since Christmas  and yesterday way looked to play the same pass it around between the centre backs and get 70% possession. Possession doesnt win games.

Agree. I also said it on the Tielemans thread but something needs to change.  Some fans keep saying we are in top 3 as an excuse to avoid a decent conversation on what we need to do to change and progress. We played well in first half of season but then we got found out because we are still not multidimensional enough and is too slow in moving the ball upfield. If we don’t change, we may drop out of the top four by the end of season.

 

Further problem now is that we do not have Ricardo. Even with him in the side, other teams found out that they could stifle our attacking potent by (1) putting pressure on our CBs and letting us pass around in the back by our defenders (not the best passers in the team); (2) putting pressure on Chilwell who has been a bit of a weak link (hope his goal gives him a boost); (3) by putting pressure on Chilwell, they are also limiting Barnes as he gets nothing from Chilwell. Our midfielders need to therefore help the back 4 a bit, so I can see why Maddison has been dropped to help pick up the ball, but this has created another problem as Maddison is simply not effective enough in getting the ball upfield - Praet is much better at that. Maddison is better off playing further upfront near Vardy. Tielemans should drop back a bit and be given more responsibility in the middle to put those killer passes that he is so capable of through (Maddison has the right ideas but his execution is not there). I think the team is there or about but we are lacking tactically. Also, Maddison needs to stop taking corners and free kicks! Can’t he at least share 50%. Tielemans is known to be quite decent in freekicks and Albrighton and Barnes can take better corners.

[deanolegend1989]

5 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Why is it a total different decision? The only reason we can play such attacking players as Maddison and Tielemans is because of Ndidi. Even Man City have started to drop off as Fernandinho has been less useful to them. Without Ndidi, Tielemans and Maddison become an unbalancing factor. One has to go, and usually the consistent one is picked. Which is Maddison.

 

Also, Tielemans didn't come on for Mendy when we beat WHU 2-1. In the 4-1 game, Tielemans started, which I included in the 2 games he played in which we won since Norwich. And the he where he came on when we were 2-0 up, we had been playing well and deserved to be 2-0 up. I won't deny that he can be very useful in certain situations, particularly when the game is very open. But he is not some deity for our team.

 

And that doesn't change our team's form with him in and out of it... He doesn't have a huge effect either way. 

I meant Ndidi came on but the point remains, He came back into the team after not playing for 2 games(2 losses to poor opposition).

He is vital, im not saying he plays unreal perfect every second but what im saying is he is first name on the teamsheet I look for and have confidence of opening up and winning a game. Everytime he isn't on I instantly fear for a win and funnily enough bar Villa have always been proved correct in are struggles.

When we play Praet its always a similar story, we just don't open teams up much. We will only win games with a midfield of no YT by 2 ways - 1. A villa Pepe Riena type mistake to get us ahead or an Ianacho goal vs Norwich(disallowed) but I mean by that type of magic to open up a sh*t game. We never really look good with him in the team.

 

It feels like im making a personal attack on Praet to be fair, which im not. However its only because hes the one whose 'replacing' YT when hes not on and hes just not up to scratch. Im sure most midfielders wouldn't, players with YTs ability are a gift, there the difference between a top 4 place and not.

[Tom12345]

3 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

I meant Ndidi came on but the point remains, He came back into the team after not playing for 2 games(2 losses to poor opposition).

He is vital, im not saying he plays unreal perfect every second but what im saying is he is first name on the teamsheet I look for and have confidence of opening up and winning a game. Everytime he isn't on I instantly fear for a win and funnily enough bar Villa have always been proved correct in are struggles.

When we play Praet its always a similar story, we just don't open teams up much. We will only win games with a midfield of no YT by 2 ways - 1. A villa Pepe Riena type mistake to get us ahead or an Ianacho goal vs Norwich(disallowed) but I mean by that type of magic to open up a sh*t game. We never really look good with him in the team.

 

It feels like im making a personal attack on Praet to be fair, which im not. However its only because hes the one whose 'replacing' YT when hes not on and hes just not up to scratch. Im sure most midfielders wouldn't, players with YTs ability are a gift, there the difference between a top 4 place and not.

Praet is a really good player but is the type who is often under appreciated because of how simple he likes to play football. He does not dance around like Maddison and waste time. He looks up and moves the ball forward. He is capable of accurate long passing and is often there to receive a pass to help teammates. He should be replacing Maddison in my view as I think Praet-Tielemans partnership is better than Maddison-Tielemans or Maddison-Praet. 

 

Yes, Ndidi is crucial - he is the rock in our team.

[1972 Fox]

2 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I worry more about Wolves than I do United, without European football to distract them, they're a force.

 

I think we've just got to hope that the other teams going for the top 4 just take points off each other, enough so that we can just scrape 2 wins and a couple of draws and that'll see us through. Hopefully Saturday was just a bit of rust and we'll come out playing good stuff tomorrow night.

But Wolves do have European football, they're still in the Europa League.

 

Although I do agree that they are becoming a force. They are a very decent side.

[themightyfin]

7 hours ago, st albans fox said:

A big plus Point of possession and moving the ball around is to tire out the opponent and see spaces open up as the game progresses

 

however, as pointed out a couple weeks ago, the new rule of five subs will allow the opposition to refresh more and negate that possession advantage somewhat.  Be interesting to see how this plays out next few weeks.   

Complete myth.

Playing it around keeping possession uses just as much energy if not more than the tesm sitting back letting you play.

Yes you can make the opposition move around by moving the ball but to do that the possession team has to constantly be running on and off the ball creating the triangles to keep the ball. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

10 minutes ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

But Wolves do have European football, they're still in the Europa League.

 

Although I do agree that they are becoming a force. They are a very decent side.

They aren't being played until after our domestic season ends, so while they're still in them, they won't be rotating the team or worrying about a European game a few days earlier/later.

[filbertway]

4 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Complete myth.

Playing it around keeping possession uses just as much energy if not more than the tesm sitting back letting you play.

Yes you can make the opposition move around by moving the ball but to do that the possession team has to constantly be running on and off the ball creating the triangles to keep the ball. 

I've got to agree with this, I've never really understood the point. If you're passing around at a walking pace, the other team can defend at a walking pace. If you're moving around then the defenders basically just have to match that effort.

The reason we probably do better later in games is because our squad is younger and fitter than most other squads. Or certainly was earlier in the season.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Quite possibly the worst post I have ever heard haha. Praet is absolutely awful really, he offers nothing. Fair play to the lad he gives it his all but hes just not good enough and is a squad player.

Did you honestly just compare YT to Mendy!? HAHA. Hilarious post. I think a lot of fans seem to be so far off its incredible.

Seem to prefer average players who will end up doing nothing in their careers over true top players.

Praet is more similar to Hamza than YT - I.E hustle bustle but not much actual talent. can 'do a job' but will not win you games. YT is a match winner, hes not even in the same sentence as them. Lets just hope Brendan doesn't start putting him on the bench again and ****ing up from a great spot like he did with Liverpool.

I guarantee is YT is on the bench vs Brighton we wont win. 100%.

I share your appreciation of Tielemans, I think he is a superb player but I cannot have that. Absurd statement, Praet has been good for us and provided a few very good assists already this season. I think he is a valuable first team player.

[urban fox]

26 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I've got to agree with this, I've never really understood the point. If you're passing around at a walking pace, the other team can defend at a walking pace. If you're moving around then the defenders basically just have to match that effort.

The reason we probably do better later in games is because our squad is younger and fitter than most other squads. Or certainly was earlier in the season.

Agree. You cannot win football matches if you do not have the ball, but unless you move it quickly, then you run the risk of getting pressed and making a mistake. When we were at our best, this is what we did. We kept the ball but moved it quickly from defence to midfield through Tielemans and Maddison, bringing Perez and Barnes into the game, allowing the FBs to get into advanced positions or feeding Vardy. At the minute we seem to be lacking that urgency and that leads to the midfield/wide players having to come deep to receive the ball, and by the time we do get into the final third the spaces have been closed up. Tielemans is a master of the quick round the corner type ball, that looks simple, but releases others into space before defences can get organised. When we do this right we look very slick indeed, but it needs to be done with speed, which can only happen if there is good movement and player with the ball is looking to release it early.

Edited 22 June 2020 by urban fox

[gurru991]

On 21/06/2020 at 02:45, Foxin_Mad said:

Have to win this if we have any hope of maintaining a top 4 finish.

You may be exaggerating just a tad. The sky isn't falling just yet !!!

[1972 Fox]

58 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

They aren't being played until after our domestic season ends, so while they're still in them, they won't be rotating the team or worrying about a European game a few days earlier/later.

Fair point. I hadn't thought of that.

[KingsX]

3 hours ago, DanNDH88 said:

Tielemans is miles off world class.. as is the rest of our squad apart from Ndidi and Pereira.