Chrysalis Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 6 hours ago, jonthefox said: Just what i was about to say. I thought we were debt free since promotion. We have taken out at least 3 loans since I am aware off. One to pay for training ground. Another for mahrez money (man city sending future payments to the creditor) Then there was a 3rd done against tv revenue. Financially we going backwards. This is all external debt as well as far as I am aware, not owed to KP.
dimmerchant Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 Nice dashboard, although I think the mapping of the financial statement accounts is slightly misleading. Of the £240m total debt amount mentioned, only £56m of it would really be considered third party debt, which is the loan with Macquarie (more detail here: https://tinyurl.com/y7o78ht4), and £36m relates to amounts owed to companies within the King Power group. The remaining balance can be split as follows: - £97m - Transfer fees payable (which although could be considered a debt-like item, should be looked at with the £53m transfer fees receivable (i.e. net position of -£44m)) - £28m - Working capital (Accruals & deferred income - £14m; Other creditors - £10m; Trade creditors - £4m) - £24m - Taxes (Tax & social security - £18m; Deferred tax - £6m) Taking into account the considerable intangibles balance of £179m (i.e. the players), and various other current assets, the Club was in a net asset position of £133m at 31 May 2019, so I don't think there's anything particularly concerning from a debt perspective at that point in time. Will be interesting to see the FY20 financial statements, and whether there's any tangible impact of covid through May-20. Hopefully any impact is offset in FY21 with Champions League revenue!
Chrysalis Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 so did the other 3rd party debts get transferred to king power?
foxinsocks Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 5 hours ago, Richard said: We took loans out against the fee instalments for Mahrez and Maguire so thatll be a sizeable chunk. e.g we sold Utd’s £80m transfer debt to a bank for £79.5m cash or something A tangent.... but imo football clubs should only be able to buy with cash.... for 2 reasons. 1. It would reduce the prices paid for players and 2. If a club goes into admin the footballing debts have to be paid to keep the golden share.... this puts other clubs who unwisely offered credit ahead of the laundry firm or pie company
dimmerchant Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 31 minutes ago, Chrysalis said: so did the other 3rd party debts get transferred to king power? King Power provided a facility to the Club of £91m in Oct-19 in relation to the training ground (not reflected in the May-19 financial statements but noted as a subsequent event).
LinekersLugs Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 If your not worried about These figures your deluded ! duty free has all but died in Thailand Shopping centres are half empty and the True cost of the Bosses death is not known these figures are scary ! relegation would wipe us out forever 🤦♂️
Ric Flair Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 15 minutes ago, LinekersLugs said: If your not worried about These figures your deluded ! duty free has all but died in Thailand Shopping centres are half empty and the True cost of the Bosses death is not known these figures are scary ! relegation would wipe us out forever 🤦♂️ Baring in mind King Power haven't put their own money in for many years, essentially because you no longer can means there's no short term worry about their finances. Whether this eventuslly leads to them selling us is another matter.
Stadt Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 Our wages to turnover % is a worry. We need to get Silva, Slimani, Ghezzal, Diabate and Kapustka off the books but I can't see there being many takers
HankMarvin Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 58 minutes ago, LinekersLugs said: If your not worried about These figures your deluded ! duty free has all but died in Thailand Shopping centres are half empty and the True cost of the Bosses death is not known these figures are scary ! relegation would wipe us out forever 🤦♂️
Chrysalis Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 2 hours ago, dimmerchant said: King Power provided a facility to the Club of £91m in Oct-19 in relation to the training ground (not reflected in the May-19 financial statements but noted as a subsequent event). Thats good news, I am confused as I remember reading somewhere a bank supplied the credit but if its owed to KP now, then thats much better.
Aus Fox Posted 10 July 2020 Posted 10 July 2020 2 hours ago, LinekersLugs said: If your not worried about These figures your deluded ! duty free has all but died in Thailand Shopping centres are half empty and the True cost of the Bosses death is not known these figures are scary ! relegation would wipe us out forever 🤦♂️ Bit of an overreaction there, we have more than enough in assets to ensure that this is not the case. We own our own stadium a huge training ground and the likes of Chilwell, Maddison, Ndidi, Tielemans, Soyunchu, Ricardo - These 6 alone would wipe the debt completely if sold.
LinekersLugs Posted 11 July 2020 Posted 11 July 2020 6 hours ago, Aus Fox said: Bit of an overreaction there, we have more than enough in assets to ensure that this is not the case. We own our own stadium a huge training ground and the likes of Chilwell, Maddison, Ndidi, Tielemans, Soyunchu, Ricardo - These 6 alone would wipe the debt completely if sold. Kingpower own all that ! Those figures are scary , this club has a long yo-yo history my fear is they will have to sell if things get bad for them and my worry is the next lot through the door are not likely to be so generous Khun Vichai and Top have been miracle owners but as football evolves and as Issues rise for Top and Family I can see this club changing hands and the yanks or who ever next in will not run it as a personal treasure !
Foxin_Mad Posted 11 July 2020 Posted 11 July 2020 They are here for the long run. There will have been insurance policies in place for Vichai. Although Covid has a short term impact on their business, travel will return and it will boom again in time. Their personal wealth (multi billion) is more than enough to keep the club ticking over. It's a hobby for them like me having a bet, you win some you lose some. But unless close supporters of the Thai king become destitute overnight its unlikely to be a problem.
dynamark Posted 11 July 2020 Posted 11 July 2020 air asia in serious danger of folding and I think our owners are significant shareholders
LinekersLugs Posted 11 July 2020 Posted 11 July 2020 44 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said: They are here for the long run. There will have been insurance policies in place for Vichai. Although Covid has a short term impact on their business, travel will return and it will boom again in time. Their personal wealth (multi billion) is more than enough to keep the club ticking over. It's a hobby for them like me having a bet, you win some you lose some. But unless close supporters of the Thai king become destitute overnight its unlikely to be a problem. Covid isn’t a short term issue and estimates are travel will take a decade to recover, Covid will hopefully become seasonal but it’s not going anywhere ! their personal wealth is only one Military Coup in Thailand away from disappearing im not sure how cash rich they are, who borrows 1/4 of billion if they don’t have to , the Loans to LCFC maybe be ledgered as from Kingpower but KP borrowed the money off an Australian Bank they are heavily hedged into retail shopping and shopping malls ! And that’s an industry collapsing by the day I’m not sure they are here for the long term especially if we continue to cost them lots of money , if the Thai authorities decree they remain they remain but if that changes they will be out of here
LinekersLugs Posted 11 July 2020 Posted 11 July 2020 44 minutes ago, dynamark said: air asia in serious danger of folding and I think our owners are significant shareholders Vichai sold most of his shareholding in 2018 ! He could see aviation struggling , has only 4% in the end
Le Renard Posted 11 July 2020 Posted 11 July 2020 King Power, if wise will not have put all their eggs in one basket, so if their duty free business suffers they will have other investments to make money! The super rich will make money out of this crisis; look at Chelski and their spending, Abramovich made his billions out of disaster capitalism, so I suspect all this spending at his club is due to making a ton of cash out of the Coronavirus misery.
Foxin_Mad Posted 11 July 2020 Posted 11 July 2020 1 hour ago, LinekersLugs said: Covid isn’t a short term issue and estimates are travel will take a decade to recover, Covid will hopefully become seasonal but it’s not going anywhere ! their personal wealth is only one Military Coup in Thailand away from disappearing im not sure how cash rich they are, who borrows 1/4 of billion if they don’t have to , the Loans to LCFC maybe be ledgered as from Kingpower but KP borrowed the money off an Australian Bank they are heavily hedged into retail shopping and shopping malls ! And that’s an industry collapsing by the day I’m not sure they are here for the long term especially if we continue to cost them lots of money , if the Thai authorities decree they remain they remain but if that changes they will be out of here Covid will be around a while, we have got to learn to live with it. Those businesses and people that dont hide away and act scared will thrive long term. I understand King Power now have quite a large ecommerce operation in Thailand too and ecommerce is booming at present. The only thing that will screw things now is if the idiots at the top decided to lock us away again, despite the fact that 90% of those who economically active and under 45 are affected minimally by this virus. No business has 250 million in cash just laying around, even banks, in fact that is awful business sense given the value of cash. It's all fictional money secured on tangible things of value. It's a huge investment on the training facility and possibly stadium to support long term growth and sustained success. They wont walk away from that. As long as we remain in the Premier League they will stay. This is a bigger picture about raising the profile of Thailand, improving facilities and opportunities for young Thai footballers. I understand King Power has invested heavily in grassroots over there. King Power have got to where they are by being shrewd and making wise investments. They survived 9/11 and the banking crash. I dont know what the economy is like over in the east but I dont think they are quite as petrified as we are over here. I think their personal wealth will be invested away from Thailand in the event of a coup happening, they are not daft. Businesspeople like them will be more than welcome in London, Dubai and others.
jonthefox Posted 11 July 2020 Posted 11 July 2020 12 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said: Covid will be around a while, we have got to learn to live with it. Those businesses and people that dont hide away and act scared will thrive long term. I understand King Power now have quite a large ecommerce operation in Thailand too and ecommerce is booming at present. The only thing that will screw things now is if the idiots at the top decided to lock us away again, despite the fact that 90% of those who economically active and under 45 are affected minimally by this virus. No business has 250 million in cash just laying around, even banks, in fact that is awful business sense given the value of cash. It's all fictional money secured on tangible things of value. It's a huge investment on the training facility and possibly stadium to support long term growth and sustained success. They wont walk away from that. As long as we remain in the Premier League they will stay. This is a bigger picture about raising the profile of Thailand, improving facilities and opportunities for young Thai footballers. I understand King Power has invested heavily in grassroots over there. King Power have got to where they are by being shrewd and making wise investments. They survived 9/11 and the banking crash. I dont know what the economy is like over in the east but I dont think they are quite as petrified as we are over here. I think their personal wealth will be invested away from Thailand in the event of a coup happening, they are not daft. Businesspeople like them will be more than welcome in London, Dubai and others. Like Leicester city. Like you say, they're not daft.
Nicolo Barella Posted 12 July 2020 Posted 12 July 2020 15 hours ago, LinekersLugs said: Covid isn’t a short term issue and estimates are travel will take a decade to recover, Covid will hopefully become seasonal but it’s not going anywhere ! their personal wealth is only one Military Coup in Thailand away from disappearing im not sure how cash rich they are, who borrows 1/4 of billion if they don’t have to , the Loans to LCFC maybe be ledgered as from Kingpower but KP borrowed the money off an Australian Bank they are heavily hedged into retail shopping and shopping malls ! And that’s an industry collapsing by the day I’m not sure they are here for the long term especially if we continue to cost them lots of money , if the Thai authorities decree they remain they remain but if that changes they will be out of here Whilst your point about military coups is valid, the quarter of a billion stuff is completely wrong, look at what dimmerchant under me has to say. Our third party debt is at around £50 million... On 11/07/2020 at 06:17, dimmerchant said: Nice dashboard, although I think the mapping of the financial statement accounts is slightly misleading. Of the £240m total debt amount mentioned, only £56m of it would really be considered third party debt, which is the loan with Macquarie (more detail here: https://tinyurl.com/y7o78ht4), and £36m relates to amounts owed to companies within the King Power group. The remaining balance can be split as follows: - £97m - Transfer fees payable (which although could be considered a debt-like item, should be looked at with the £53m transfer fees receivable (i.e. net position of -£44m)) - £28m - Working capital (Accruals & deferred income - £14m; Other creditors - £10m; Trade creditors - £4m) - £24m - Taxes (Tax & social security - £18m; Deferred tax - £6m) Taking into account the considerable intangibles balance of £179m (i.e. the players), and various other current assets, the Club was in a net asset position of £133m at 31 May 2019, so I don't think there's anything particularly concerning from a debt perspective at that point in time. Will be interesting to see the FY20 financial statements, and whether there's any tangible impact of covid through May-20. Hopefully any impact is offset in FY21 with Champions League revenue!
Spudulike Posted 14 July 2020 Posted 14 July 2020 This is not likely to help King Power's finances... From the BBC... Thailand cancels arrivals after Egyptian tests positive Thailand has cancelled all international flights after members of an Egyptian military delegation failed to observe quarantine, with one soldier later testing positive for coronavirus. The 31-strong group visited a shopping centre in Rayong province during a two-day stopover in the country earlier this month, a Thai official said, adding that almost 1,900 locals who were in the same centre had now been ordered to quarantine at home. Taweesilp Visanuyothin, the spokesman for Thailand's Covid-19 response, blamed the Egyptian embassy for arranging hotel accommodation for the visitors, instead of ensuring they went into quarantine, according to the Bangkok Post. Thailand has reported fewer than 60 coronavirus deaths and 3,200 cases.
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