Brendan's analysis of Liverpool defeat

[shen]

1 minute ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Agree with the tactical disaster bit.  We should have gone on the front foot against them to give them something to think about.  Instead we were blinded by the makeshift defence for Liverpool and just played hoof ball thinking Vardy would get to it.

 

All a learning curve and perhaps the players we are missing are more noticeable when we play the top teams.  It shows that Liverpool have better squad players than we do and will win the league again.  We were outfought everywhere and shows the standard we need to hit if we want to be considered a genuine title/top 4 contender. I think Johnny Evans time at Leicester may well be coming to an end.  His form shows no signs of improvement and as good as he was when he joined it looks like time is catching up with him.

 

Onwards and upwards.  We were not the best team in the league when we spanked Man City and we certainly are not the worst because we got spanked at Liverpool.

 

It was never a handball btw and Johnny Evans was too busy tangling with Mane to watch the ball.  Proper schoolboy error stuff.

I agree that we did not put enough pressure on Curtis Jones, who was always had time on the ball. I think Liverpool were just that much better though and the times we did press high, we were almost always caught out so pressing high could easily have ended up the same or worse for us.

 

Even Fofana showed his age today in a quite naïve display - He was almost too pumped! Yes, he had those brave runs and good interceptions first half, but he got caught high up the pitch or diving in too quick all second half. I think this game will serve him well going forward - this is the yardstick. He will be much wiser next time against similar opposition.

 

I'm sorry to say that Albrighton, Fuchs and Evans were clear weak links today, while Barnes offered little protection to Justin. Liverpool forced us to play out wide and to be blunt, our worst technical players are out wide. Albrighton, Justin, Barnes just weren't able to keep the ball or make a decent pass under pressure.

And on a sidenote, it definitely was a handball as per the rules this season. That cannot really be disputed. It would've been harsh, granted, but I don't see how VAR did not rule that as handball.

[shen]

2 minutes ago, Livid said:

Their patched up forward line proved far better equipped than our patched up defence.

 

Sitting back like we did against Man City was never an option last night it just invited them onto us and gave them all the momentum, which we never looked like clawing back. 

'Patched up forward line'? African footballer of the year Mané, £45m in-form Jota and ol' Bobby Firmino?

[Buce]

5 hours ago, StanSP said:

Sorry but when we thrash Man City away from home and beat Arsenal away as well I can't imagine it's a 'mental thing' or that we've learnt nothing. It's incredibly disingenuous. 

 

I dunno, Stan, but they looked like rabbits caught in the headlights from the word go.

 

Maybe it's just a Liverpool thing?

[Hollyfox]

If they could play anyone every week, it would probably be us😄

 

But seriously, we've had a great start to the campaign, players coming back to fitness and plenty to look forward to. 

 

The players that have come in like Marc have done very well but against that standard of opposition, we definitely need our strongest starting eleven. 

 

I hate them like no other club, but I have to hold my hands up and acknowledge what a fantastic side and manager they have. 

 

It was men v boys last night 

 

The #@&£s😄

[UHDrive]

Why didnt BR adopt a 4-1-4-1 tactical approach in order to chase the game the way we are good at playing. I feel the more we distance ourselves from that formation then the harder it well be to bed the players back in it.

[Guest SO1]

8 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

Why didnt BR adopt a 4-1-4-1 tactical approach in order to chase the game the way we are good at playing. I feel the more we distance ourselves from that formation then the harder it well be to bed the players back in it.

I'm beginning to wonder if Rodgers feels not having Ndidi limits him from playing that type of system against attacking clubs.

I love both(Mendy) but they do have different strengths and well Liverpool could have punished us more with their long passing.

Ndidi is a pressing machine and if we can't keep possession we're screwed. We may not have a choice.

[UHDrive]

3 minutes ago, SO1 said:

I'm beginning to wonder if Rodgers feels not having Ndidi limits him from playing that type of system against attacking clubs.

I love both(Mendy) but they do have different strengths and well Liverpool could have punished us more with their long passing.

Ndidi is a pressing machine and if we can't keep possession we're screwed. We may not have a choice.

Agreed. In some ways ndidi allows the creative midfield to play to our strengths by breaking up play and then passing it behind or out wide to the wingers to start the midfield doing their stuff. Mendy, although I have been impressed with him so far, seems to try to play and dribble through the middle which isn't how we play in a 4-1-4-1 and interferes with the rhythm when we are building from from the back.

[Chrysalis]

We cant just rely on one player though.

 

Look at the top teams, they collectively close down opposite teams to get possession back, when we had the ball, our players were always closed down by liverpool players, if we managed to pass it to another player, then another player or two pressed, they do this relentlessly until the ball is won back.

 

I remember when Rodgers first took over, he said he wanted us to win the ball back within a quick period of time when we lose it, the problem is we dont play to do that, we just give the other teams space until they approaching our box.

 

I have yet to see an answer why our players dont press consistently, in the liverpool game I noticed we would spend 10 minutes no pressing then suddenly randomly we would press for about a minute, get an attack out of it or at least force them to pass back, but then for the next 10 minutes sit back again, it was so bizarre.

 

Also our best players I expect wont enjoy been made a fool off like that, thats a performance they would be embarassed about, I think they would rather lose at least fighting for the game, than just handing it to them on a plate.

Edited 23 November 2020 by Chrysalis

[HighPeakFox]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I dunno, Stan, but they looked like rabbits caught in the headlights from the word go.

 

Maybe it's just a Liverpool thing?

Maybe Liverpool were just hot, and we weren't. We can't win every game, and I'd be the first to admit we were poor yesterday. However, I think it was the right opponents to have a stinker against. Win the next 3 (no given of course) and everything looks rosy again.

[blueharmie]

. 

Edited 23 November 2020 by blueharmie

[sacreblueits442]

46 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

We cant just rely on one player though.

 

Look at the top teams, they collectively close down opposite teams to get possession back, when we had the ball, our players were always closed down by liverpool players, if we managed to pass it to another player, then another player or two pressed, they do this relentlessly until the ball is won back.

 

I remember when Rodgers first took over, he said he wanted us to win the ball back within a quick period of time when we lose it, the problem is we dont play to do that, we just give the other teams space until they approaching our box.

 

I have yet to see an answer why our players dont press consistently, in the liverpool game I noticed we would spend 10 minutes no pressing then suddenly randomly we would press for about a minute, get an attack out of it or at least force them to pass back, but then for the next 10 minutes sit back again, it was so bizarre.

 

Also our best players I expect wont enjoy been made a fool off like that, thats a performance they would be embarassed about, I think they would rather lose at least fighting for the game, than just handing it to them on a plate.

..I  wrote a very  similar post last season after a Man. City game!!!

  I would surmise that the senior players would been livid as we rolled over and had our tummy tickled.

  I would imagine no-one would be happy with the way we performed yesterday but it seems not much has been learnt in respect of our approach and mindset regarding the big three.

[HighPeakFox]

7 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..I  wrote a very  similar post last season after a Man. City game!!!

  I would surmise that the senior players would been livid as we rolled over and had our tummy tickled.

  I would imagine no-one would be happy with the way we performed yesterday but it seems not much has been learnt in respect of our approach and mindset regarding the big three.

With respect, that makes no sense. We won 2-5 at one of the 'big 3' (which is the 3rd you had in mind, out of interest? Man Utd?) this season. So something has changed, by definition.

[sacreblueits442]

3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

With respect, that makes no sense. We won 2-5 at one of the 'big 3' (which is the 3rd you had in mind, out of interest? Man Utd?) this season. So something has changed, by definition.

...yes the Man.City was a good win, but this was more borne out of circumstances and what was available. Had Rodgers a full squad to choose from, he would not have elected to use the formation and tactics he used.

 Now that is my interpretation of that game and when Rodgers brings his team up against a top three only to approach the game in the same vane then I can only surmise than he has failed to learn from his previous encounters.

 And yes, Man.United is the third.

 

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...yes the Man.City was a good win, but this was more borne out of circumstances and what was available. Had Rodgers a full squad to choose from, he would not have elected to use the formation and tactics he used.

 Now that is my interpretation of that game and when Rodgers brings his team up against a top three only to approach the game in the same vane then I can only surmise than he has failed to learn from his previous encounters.

 And yes, Man.United is the third.

 

But, sir, he set up differently from the last time we played Liverpool. The players didn't deliver, plus we were up against one of, if not the best in the world. I know you didn't say it here, but the manner of defeat (and the timing) was very different to Boxing Day.

 

Sometimes you lose because the other team is better - this was one such occasion. That we played badly just made it easier for them.

[Corky]

17 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

I think we just have to accept that under Rodgers we'll have great days and shite days. The brilliant performances (man City for example) raise the expectations to an unrealistic level and nights like tonight bring us back down to earth with a bump. 

 

Brendan likes to play us down to the media and maybe that rubs off onto the players. I don't feel like he really sees the club as top 4 contenders which is sad but it is what it is

Agreed. It's why I don't see him progressing much higher than us, the outside press wouldn't stand for the limp displays we show (and it was a feature of his last season at Liverpool).

 

He's too erratic for the really big jobs now. He's a level below. He's got a big task here- should he stay for the remainder of his contract, he's going to have to think about replacing Vardy, he'll lose key older heads too. He has a great opportunity though.

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, Corky said:

Agreed. It's why I don't see him progressing much higher than us, the outside press wouldn't stand for the limp displays we show (and it was a feature of his last season at Liverpool).

 

He's too erratic for the really big jobs now. He's a level below.

I apologise if this appears too contrarian, but not every defeat is the manager's fault. At the risk of annoying everyone by repeating myself, I just think there are games you lose at your current standard, for multiple reasons, and this was one for us. The players will improve, and BR is improving - that is how I see it.

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Corky said:

Agreed. It's why I don't see him progressing much higher than us, the outside press wouldn't stand for the limp displays we show (and it was a feature of his last season at Liverpool).

 

He's too erratic for the really big jobs now. He's a level below.

Do you expect Arteta or Ole to get such short shrift? Or is the fact he is already at one of the big 6 enough to earn him a pass?

[Guest Hansifüx]

Brendan gambled and lost. Sitting back too deep and hoping that vardy  &co  will score is not entertaining to watch. I hope this will be a lesson and we will get overall better football to watch even if it occasionally means less points. 

[shailen]

6 hours ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

I agree with this but it seems a lot of people just choose to ignore the why. A large part of not being at it, not stringing passes together and not getting the ball into the box is in large part sue to playing against a top side, who pressed and played in such a way that didn't allow Leicester to be at it.

I agree as well that they stifled us and pressed us into mistakes but I'm not talking about long hopeful balls or even penetrative passes through an eye of a needle. I'm talking about passes to players in space which we couldn't produce and crosses that were wayward under no real pressure. 

[shailen]

19 minutes ago, Hansifüx said:

Brendan gambled and lost. Sitting back too deep and hoping that vardy  &co  will score is not entertaining to watch. I hope this will be a lesson and we will get overall better football to watch even if it occasionally means less points. 

Were you saying that at Man City or Arsenal away. Tactics imo were right, I'd question why Praet started over Maddison but other than that I wouldn't question the fact that we went there and sat back.

 

They were too good and we weren't at it but they can do that to anyone as they proved against Barcelona a couple seasons back with a number of injuries. 

[Chrysalis]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

With respect, that makes no sense. We won 2-5 at one of the 'big 3' (which is the 3rd you had in mind, out of interest? Man Utd?) this season. So something has changed, by definition.

Analysis is more than results.  We did get lucky in that game, KDB had a shocker of a performance and he is their main offensive threat, their defenders all had a nightmare as well. 

 

We played better in that game than the pool game though.  Once Vardy scored the first goal, the team woke up, but before then it was the same as the pool game.

 

If barnes took his chance, the same may well have happened, but there is a problem if it needs something like that to get them to play properly.

 

This is what my friend from liverpool said on whatsapp, when I asked him if his team just happened to have good games when they play us.

 

"We did play well, but often that is down to been given the time to do that, at the start we were not as fluid, but you kept giving us a lot of space, it felt like we was playing a cup game against a lower league team, your team just seemed content to play for a 0-0, which is why I think it played out the way it did".

Edited 23 November 2020 by Chrysalis

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

I apologise if this appears too contrarian, but not every defeat is the manager's fault. At the risk of annoying everyone by repeating myself, I just think there are games you lose at your current standard, for multiple reasons, and this was one for us. The players will improve, and BR is improving - that is how I see it.

A Voice of reason...!!

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Corky said:

Agreed. It's why I don't see him progressing much higher than us, the outside press wouldn't stand for the limp displays we show (and it was a feature of his last season at Liverpool).

 

He's too erratic for the really big jobs now. He's a level below. He's got a big task here- should he stay for the remainder of his contract, he's going to have to think about replacing Vardy, he'll lose key older heads too. He has a great opportunity though.

 

[fuchsntf]

Just now, fuchsntf said:

 

My hand went limp..

[Corky]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

I apologise if this appears too contrarian, but not every defeat is the manager's fault. At the risk of annoying everyone by repeating myself, I just think there are games you lose at your current standard, for multiple reasons, and this was one for us. The players will improve, and BR is improving - that is how I see it.

Last night was understandable. West Ham, Norwich, Bournemouth- not so much.

 

I'm not saying he's doing a bad job- far from it. But we need to cut out the limp performances and give everyone a tough game, as we did in the title winning season.