Brendan's analysis of Liverpool defeat

[l444ry]

31 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Or they bottled it at Anfield.  It happens.  I saw it a number of times under Martin O'Neill and that is the most combatitive team we have ever had.  Better quality and more fight from Liverpool.  We have been using the dark arts of defending a little more this season so far to stop attacks but there was none of that on show on Sunday.  I can not imagine he would change this against the best team in the country.

We never bottled anything against Liverpool when Martin was in charge. Pretty sure we won three out of four games at Anfield (drew the other) in the League and lost only once in four games at Filbert Street.

Edited 24 November 2020 by l444ry

[sacreblueits442]

23 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

I think the players looked more over-awed than confused. People forget we’re still a developing side, and I think the pressure away at Anfield to potentially go top of the league got to them on this occasion. 
 

Is what it is though, we’ll have plenty more great games this season, we’ve just gotten past the hardest one and we’re still up there. 

...strange that the concensus is that home games not give you an advantage in these times!!!

  I can take the defeat (just not how it came about) and their is a potential of a great season still to come.

 Not buying into the we are fledglings argument, there are more than enough experience within the first eleven.

Edited 24 November 2020 by sacreblueits442

[Basildon Fox]

Not against Liverpool no, but against Arsenal a number of times, Coventry at home in the cup off the top of my head.  I am sure there are a lot more than that.  The point is it happens and the players need to learn from it.  Again I do not think for one minute the manager wanted them to be so passive.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, l444ry said:

We never bottled anything against Liverpool when Martin was in charge. Pretty sure we won three out of four games at Anfield (drew the other) in the League and lost only once in four games at Filbert Street.

If you're going to bring 'Martin' (sorry, i'm not on first name terms) into it, remind me the highest place we finished under him, and how Liverpool were doing at the time - just for balance, you know.

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Not against Liverpool no, but against Arsenal a number of times, Coventry at home in the cup off the top of my head.  I am sure there are a lot more than that.  The point is it happens and the players need to learn from it.  Again I do not think for one minute the manager wanted them to be so passive.

..hard to wrest the initiative when you are defending for your life!!!

  We were lucky to still be in touch and perhaps doing something instead of keeping the status quo might have been prudent.

  Tielemans was not operating and was having no impact on the game, so take him off and bring in a more robust pragmatic player like Praet if you felt it was so essential to keep Maddison on the pitch.

[The_77]

If there’s a positive here, it’s that Brendan definitely understands what went wrong on Sunday.

 

It was a little naive to think that Klopp wouldn’t have studied our game against Man City— he was never going to play a high backline, he set up to prevent our counter and provide cover for Milner, Fabinho, and Matip. 
 

There were plenty times when we needed a bit more composure when we got the ball back but instead of keeping possession, we forced long balls and counters that weren’t there. 
 

Luckily there’s another game on Thursday and we’re another day closer to a fully-fit squad. 

Edited 24 November 2020 by The_77
Typo

[Corky]

4 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

In what way is he too erratic?  We were sitting top of the table before this game.  Yes he needs to take blame for this game and the way we set up but he also needs credit for the fantastic high scoring wins too.

 

I still say missing our stars is far more problematic than Liverpool who have a much better overall squad.  Honestly! I do not know what he is meant to do to win over some of you.  Perhaps consistently crap Puel Ball would be better.

In the last 13 league games, we've won by three goals three times, scored four three times and also lost by three goals on four occasions. That's erratic, in my view. We've looked devastating and toothless in fairly equal measure in the last 15 league matches or so.

 

I like an awful lot of what he's done and is doing. Doesn't mean I'm fully pleased with a trend in our play.

[NaijaFox]

19 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

I Dont look at it like that....different People have different Perspectives on what is  considered Good or poor.....

Goes without saying.

But what exactly about the performance on Sunday night did YOU consider to be tactically great (or not poor)? 
 

Edited 24 November 2020 by NaijaFox

[fuchsntf]

49 minutes ago, NaijaFox said:

Goes without saying.

But what exactly about the performance on Sunday night did YOU consider to be tactically great (or not poor)? 
 

I actually thought the players themselves were later in the 1St half too passive, & into the 2nd half,on the Pitch für players Pitch Tactical nous & thought

seemed to be amiss and lethargic...I Dont always put that down to the manager.  IMO we lack an on Pitch Driver or General,es are too nice & Run into holes & periods where we far Too passive even lacksidasica,l we also had Good moments where the tactics seemed to be holding,then we lost any of the bite we had.

Alot of times that are those Type of things that corrupt any individual or Team cohesion & thoughts on tactics...Hoi

 

I am sorry But sometimes what happens & develops through a game is far Away from any Management possible Intervention or tweek...

The players arent Robots & can Simply just Stutter & Not Kick in again...we were out manouvred  on the pitch....Not on the sideline...

IMO..My perspective.!!!

 

Ps..but an interesting debate nonetheless

Edited 24 November 2020 by fuchsntf

[Chrysalis]

6 hours ago, don_danbury said:

vardy , evans and fofana would get in. 

 

you're giving way too much credit to liverpool and not talking about that shocking performance. 3 players showed up, jj, schmeichel and fofana. any half decent team would've put us to the sword playing like that. look at what west ham did.

If klopp were to leave, their performances would change, its not just about the quality of individuals at all, remember man utd the season after fergie left?

 

Whether you close down the other team and have a better shape is not down to the quality of the player, its down to mentality and tactics.

Edited 24 November 2020 by Chrysalis

[fuchsntf]

4 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

If klopp were to leave, their performances would change, its not just about the quality of individuals at all, remember man utd the season after fergie left?

 

Whether you close down the other team and have a better shape is not down to the quality of the player, its down to mentality and tactics.

Sorry..when Fergie left, the best players had retired,Moved on...Moyes had taken over a weakened Squad with ,but not yet proven potential..

[Chrysalis]

2 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Sorry..when Fergie left, the best players had retired,Moved on...Moyes had taken over a weakened Squad with ,but not yet proven potential..

yet fergie won a title with that weakened squad and we won a title with a half championship squad, if you think players have a bigger bearing than the manager than I dont know what to say.

Edited 24 November 2020 by Chrysalis

[don_danbury]

14 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

If klopp were to leave, their performances would change, its not just about the quality of individuals at all, remember man utd the season after fergie left?

 

Whether you close down the other team and have a better shape is not down to the quality of the player, its down to mentality and tactics.

not really much to do with what i said but i get your point.

[fuchsntf]

21 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

yet fergie won a title with that weakened squad and we won a title with a half championship squad, if you think players have a bigger bearing than the manager than I dont know what to say.

Then you will remain a very Quiet man...

Read up on some Top managers autobiographies.....Beckenbauer always insisted ..One only becomes a Top manager, when those quality players are available

Then his job is only Guidance a low level tactics...Quality players know & understand their Club & teammates game...

[whoareyaaa]

5 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...strange that the concensus is that home games not give you an advantage in these times!!!

  I can take the defeat (just not how it came about) and their is a potential of a great season still to come.

 Not buying into the we are fledglings argument, there are more than enough experience within the first eleven.

agree with this, just think we didn't turn up and the formation could of a played a part either way we had a off day.

[volpeazzurro]

40 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Then you will remain a very Quiet man...

Read up on some Top managers autobiographies.....Beckenbauer always insisted ..One only becomes a Top manager, when those quality players are available

Then his job is only Guidance a low level tactics...Quality players know & understand their Club & teammates game...

Whilst there's a lot of truth in that it also works the other way round. It we suddenly replaced Klopp or Guadiola with Rodgers, do you see Liverpool and Manchester City suddenly improving or taking a dip in form?

[fuchsntf]

28 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Whilst there's a lot of truth in that it also works the other way round. It we suddenly replaced Klopp or Guadiola with Rodgers, do you see Liverpool and Manchester City suddenly improving or taking a dip in form?

I have no Crystal ball...there is nothing "obvious" in any sport....Thats Why People trying to predict the unknown keeps the arrogant onlookers in their place...

2015/16 will always Shine over & point to those who still remain "clever buggars" and Never learn..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hoopla10]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

yet fergie won a title with that weakened squad and we won a title with a half championship squad, if you think players have a bigger bearing than the manager than I dont know what to say.

It's an interesting argument this as many I know would argue that Ranieri "guided" an already established foundation and once he started to actually put his own imprint onto managing the squad it started to fall apart. Ranieri pretty much suggested the same during the first half of the season. Vardy has gone on and proven what a class act he is, Kante jumped teams and played a big part in his new club winning the title, Mahrez moved to one of the biggest clubs in Europe and has also won a league title... I'm not diminishing the importance of a manager. Ranieri's ability to hold the momentum, team cohesion and focus in the second half of the season being critical clearly shows that. And that's probably the point, it's not a either/or situation. It's a team. Managers need good players who can do what is asked of them and buy into the managers vision and players need a manager who can, you know, manage them.

Fergie forced ManU's board to buy Van Persie to win a title after just missing the title to a Aguero 94th minute goal. Van Persie was a big reason they won that season. 

 

As for Sunday. I think we were a little overwhelmed, made worse when Evan's OG went in. Liverpool were clearly up for it and that goal increased the threat that the next goal would take the game away from us (which is what happened). Strikes me it's a situation of confidence. And let's be honest, that's understandable, Liverpool are an incredibly dangerous team when they up for it. The most important thing now is how we move forward. Last season when we lost to Liverpool for a fight at the top of the table we didn't recover. I hope the lads put it behind them and kick on. Having such a hectic turnover of games (the next in Europe) might work in our favor in distancing Sunday's result.       

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

I have no Crystal ball...there is nothing "obvious" in any sport....Thats Why People trying to predict the unknown keeps the arrogant onlookers in their place...

2015/16 will always Shine over & point to those who still remain "clever buggars" and Never learn..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, all the experts got that one wrong didn't they, another gratifying moment!

[fuchsntf]

33 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Yes, all the experts got that one wrong didn't they, another gratifying moment!

Not only the experts....

Many on here heard the Cock Crow 3 times

[Dan LCFC]

Personally thought it was an error not playing Praet on the right - it had worked in the other games of a similar nature. Maddison hasn't performed well enough to be an automatic starter every game. I'd have Maddison in for our next three in the league, but I'd have probably benched him at Anfield, and said so before the game.

[sacreblueits442]

5 hours ago, Hoopla10 said:

It's an interesting argument this as many I know would argue that Ranieri "guided" an already established foundation and once he started to actually put his own imprint onto managing the squad it started to fall apart. Ranieri pretty much suggested the same during the first half of the season. Vardy has gone on and proven what a class act he is, Kante jumped teams and played a big part in his new club winning the title, Mahrez moved to one of the biggest clubs in Europe and has also won a league title... I'm not diminishing the importance of a manager. Ranieri's ability to hold the momentum, team cohesion and focus in the second half of the season being critical clearly shows that. And that's probably the point, it's not a either/or situation. It's a team. Managers need good players who can do what is asked of them and buy into the managers vision and players need a manager who can, you know, manage them.

Fergie forced ManU's board to buy Van Persie to win a title after just missing the title to a Aguero 94th minute goal. Van Persie was a big reason they won that season. 

 

As for Sunday. I think we were a little overwhelmed, made worse when Evan's OG went in. Liverpool were clearly up for it and that goal increased the threat that the next goal would take the game away from us (which is what happened). Strikes me it's a situation of confidence. And let's be honest, that's understandable, Liverpool are an incredibly dangerous team when they up for it. The most important thing now is how we move forward. Last season when we lost to Liverpool for a fight at the top of the table we didn't recover. I hope the lads put it behind them and kick on. Having such a hectic turnover of games (the next in Europe) might work in our favor in distancing Sunday's result.       

...that is something that people keep clinging to!!!

If that was the case then the Southampton Team should still be scared to leave their house in case they bump into someone wearing blue. Let us not kid ourselves the Liverpool and United results were the cause of our demise, it is not difficult to pick yourself up off the floor and move on, Southampton did, they took us apart in the return game..

[Chrysalis]

On 24/11/2020 at 20:36, Hoopla10 said:

It's an interesting argument this as many I know would argue that Ranieri "guided" an already established foundation and once he started to actually put his own imprint onto managing the squad it started to fall apart. Ranieri pretty much suggested the same during the first half of the season. Vardy has gone on and proven what a class act he is, Kante jumped teams and played a big part in his new club winning the title, Mahrez moved to one of the biggest clubs in Europe and has also won a league title... I'm not diminishing the importance of a manager. Ranieri's ability to hold the momentum, team cohesion and focus in the second half of the season being critical clearly shows that. And that's probably the point, it's not a either/or situation. It's a team. Managers need good players who can do what is asked of them and buy into the managers vision and players need a manager who can, you know, manage them.

Fergie forced ManU's board to buy Van Persie to win a title after just missing the title to a Aguero 94th minute goal. Van Persie was a big reason they won that season. 

 

As for Sunday. I think we were a little overwhelmed, made worse when Evan's OG went in. Liverpool were clearly up for it and that goal increased the threat that the next goal would take the game away from us (which is what happened). Strikes me it's a situation of confidence. And let's be honest, that's understandable, Liverpool are an incredibly dangerous team when they up for it. The most important thing now is how we move forward. Last season when we lost to Liverpool for a fight at the top of the table we didn't recover. I hope the lads put it behind them and kick on. Having such a hectic turnover of games (the next in Europe) might work in our favor in distancing Sunday's result.       

I give pearson some credit as well, claudio inherited a squad which had belief in itself and a sound system in general.

 

Look back at the pearson days, the difference in confidence was huge, even in our first season up our players could do passing triangles with one touch football when closed down, and think back to this liverpool game just played, we tried it a few times and made errors every time, just from simple triangle passes.  The regression is sadly clear to see.  In claudio first season remember the home liverpool game where we had a brilliant set of passing movement whilst half of the liverpool team had closed us down and is a shame we didnt score from it as we almost did.

 

This is why our counters were so good, because back then the team could actually pass the ball under pressure, and had such high levels of confidence.  I have a mahrez highlights video and also a seasonal highlights video on my pc from back then, the football been played was at least a level higher than now, which is why I never agreed with the comments last season the current team is as good as the title team.

Edited 26 November 2020 by Chrysalis