Formula 1 2021

[Stinkenzo]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Because those cars were interfering with the leaders,

You're just proving my point here. There was a McLaren (and an Aston Martin) interfering with Sainz and the two infront - was he not allowed to get involved?

[Countryfox]

2 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

Just out of interest, had Lewis had held off Max or Max had overrun a corner and finished second, would the calls for Masi to go still be so strong? Would the accusations of race fixing be so prevalent?

 

I just wonder whether the outrage of this decision is down to what Masi decided, or the fact it cost the driver you support his world championship?

 

No for me ..  ignoring the fact Lewis is British and I would support him anyway ..  the bit that rankles is that he was comfortably leading and had the Championship (not just the race) in the bag.  Because no one was sure what the race director would do it had a huge impact on the result ...  the sensible thing was to finish under a safety and he bottled it.  Just plain wrong imo.

 

[UniFox21]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Like I alluded to before, the rule is always to protect the race at the front. As revealed as well there was an agreement for the race to finish within green flags conditions.

 

I think where Masi did **** up seriously was saying they wouldn't overtake, it's another flip flop that's made the decision look daft.

 

Mentioned above I haven't read enough around to comment on the first point, but we can all agree on the latter. 

 

Masi has really made the sport a laughing stock this year with the bewildering decisions, when the incredible competition  we had between Lewis and Max should've been what we all took away from this season. 

 

Hopefully next year we can have another great year of racing, and not be sat here questioning what the hell Masi has been doing. 

[reporterpenguin]

10 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

The way I have heard it is he only needs to let cars unlap that are affecting the cars that are competing for first place ..   so therefore he was following the rules exactly.

 

Some of his other decisions were dubious to say the least but Mercedes will not get them overturned.

 

It is what it is ..  

That’s not what regulation 48.12 says. It says that “any cars that have been lapped by the leader”, it makes no mention of it being only cars affecting the battle for the lead. 
 

Normally either all lapped cars unlap themselves, or none do. The selective way the regulations were applied yesterday was completely abnormal. 

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Walkers said:

You're just proving my point here. There was a McLaren (and an Aston Martin) interfering with Sainz and the two infront - was he not allowed to get involved?

Dunno, but after Ferraris season i think the last thing on Sainz's mind would have been to get involved .

[FoxyLeon]

I don't watch the F1, but given all the hype decided yesterday that I would watch it.

 

Throughout the whole show I was pretty happy about the depth they went into to explain things, and it was obvious there was a constant attempt to explain everything to what they called 'New/First time watchers of F1'.

 

However, the problem is, as a first time viewer, the outcome has completely put me off watching it ever again.

 

For me, F1 is not a sport. A 'Sport' cannot change its rules mid way through a game, just to make it a better 'spectacle'. It would be like Phil Taylor being 6-0 up in a World Darts final, but the referee deciding to make it more 'fun' the last set would be worth 7.

 

Then there's another issue I had, why is Hamilton being punished, and Verstappen rewarded, for a third party in Latifi crashing out? I seem to recall Hamilton was 12 ish seconds ahead, more like 14 given he had cleared the back markers, yet he was punished for Latifi crashing out.....Why couldn't Perez, Verstappen's teammate, just have 'broken down' or crashed into a wall in the middle of the track, to force a safety car too?

[Stinkenzo]

6 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

Just out of interest, had Lewis had held off Max or Max had overrun a corner and finished second, would the calls for Masi to go still be so strong? Would the accusations of race fixing be so prevalent?

 

I just wonder whether the outrage of this decision is down to what Masi decided, or the fact it cost the driver you support his world championship?

Is there really a difference between attemping but failing to race fix and attemping and succeeding in the attempt to race fix? Of course had Hamilton stayed ahead there wouldn't be so much uproar but there would still be a lot of questions directed towards him.

 

It's like coming downstairs at night to see a burglar and being totally cool with it because you caught him as nothing was taken while wishing him better luck next time, and the robber succeeding. Neither are acceptable

[The Horse's Mouth]

3 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Mentioned above I haven't read enough around to comment on the first point, but we can all agree on the latter. 

 

Masi has really made the sport a laughing stock this year with the bewildering decisions, when the incredible competition  we had between Lewis and Max should've been what we all took away from this season. 

 

Hopefully next year we can have another great year of racing, and not be sat here questioning what the hell Masi has been doing. 

I wouldn't mind but the way he flip flops undermines his authority most of the time. You need a race director who's a bit of a dictator tbh 

 

[Stinkenzo]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Dunno, but after Ferraris season i think the last thing on Sainz's mind would have been to get involved .

Yeah of course, but as arace director you don't just sit there and think "Sainz probably wouldnt wanna get involved so we'll keep him well away". Otherwise you may aswell have just had a race start of Lewis/Max and then 5s later 3rd place and below could have moved away. Would be interested to see what would have happened had the race restarted with those cars inbetween them. I can honestly imagine them all jumping out the way at the first opportunity, which would have seen Max have about a lap and 2 or 3 corners to catch him from i'm guessing about 1.5s back. His last lap was 3s quicker, he'd probably have still won.

[Countryfox]

7 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

That’s not what regulation 48.12 says. It says that “any cars that have been lapped by the leader”, it makes no mention of it being only cars affecting the battle for the lead. 
 

Normally either all lapped cars unlap themselves, or none do. The selective way the regulations were applied yesterday was completely abnormal. 

 

Thats what I have read in the Telegraph ..

 

[BlueSi13]

Defending the indefensible I'm afraid.  At the end of the day Masi approved something that has never been done in a Formula 1 race before and had to drive over multiple guidelines to do it.  The only explanation being what the director says goes.  

 

That will be concerning to every single team and sponsor on that grid.  Why even have rules in the first place?  Why bother having 2 hour races?  Why not have a final lap shootout every time?  Why doesn't Masi just tell us who he wants to win next year now so we can have part of our Sundays back?  See the can of worms this opens.  

 

It's very possibly the darkest moment in the sports history (minus deaths of course).  A tainted championship is no championship, whoever receives it.

[Countryfox]

8 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I wouldn't mind but the way he flip flops undermines his authority most of the time. You need a race director who's a bit of a dictator tbh 

 

 

At the end of the day that is the biggest issue here ...  if you don't know what he is going to do or how he will interpret things the sport is fooked.  Lewis should have won and basically HE stopped that happening and now we have months of fookin lawsuits to read about.

 

In footy they say the best refs are the ones that never get a mention ...   others just want to be the centre of attention.

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

At the end of the day that is the biggest issue here ...  if you don't know what he is going to do or how he will interpret things the sport is fooked.  Lewis should have won and basically HE stopped that happening and now we have months of fookin lawsuits to read about.

 

In footy they say the best refs are the ones that never get a mention ...   others just want to be the centre of attention.

F1's always been like this though, there's a reason why Mercedes rocked up with a barrister to this race.

[reporterpenguin]

5 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Thats what I have read in the Telegraph ..

 

I think that is more them trying to find a way to justify the decision made. Regulation 48.12 makes no reference to this applying to cars interfering with the lead whatsoever, and neither does 48.13. The use of article 48.13 was to allow the safety car to come in when they chose. They've picked and chosen the bits of each article that justified what they wanted to do.

 

They've used the bit of article 48.12 that says lapped cars to overtake, but only applied it to some cars, and article 48.13 to bring the safety car straight in rather than have the safety car complete another lap after lapped cars are overtaken.

 

This article covers what each article means well: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/the-safety-car-regulations-that-michael-masi-ignored-to-go-racing-at-the-end-of-abu-dhabi-gp

[ClaphamFox]

2 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

At the end of the day that is the biggest issue here ...  if you don't know what he is going to do or how he will interpret things the sport is fooked.  Lewis should have won and basically HE stopped that happening and now we have months of fookin lawsuits to read about.

 

In footy they say the best refs are the ones that never get a mention ...   others just want to be the centre of attention.

Damon Hill put it well when he said that under Masi it has become a game of 'guess what I'm going to do now'. Not really what you want.

 

However, to be fair to Masi that job must be incredibly difficult. Making decisions in real time with Team Principals in your ear putting incredible pressure on you, and all of it broadcast for the world, cannot be easy. Maybe they need to rethink how it's done? 

[reporterpenguin]

I also feel sorry for the teams that had the other lapped cars between them and the car in front. Had they also been cleared, they would have had the chance to try and overtake. But with the lapped cars to clear they didn't realistically have that opportunity. It was only Verstappen that had lapped cars between him and the car in front that was given the chance to overtake, which doesn't seem fair on the others. 

 

And again, the regulations makes no reference to it being only the battle for the lead that this is applied too.

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

Damon Hill put it well when he said that under Masi it has become a game of 'guess what I'm going to do now'. Not really what you want.

 

However, to be fair to Masi that job must be incredibly difficult. Making decisions in real time with Team Principals in your ear putting incredible pressure on you, and all of it broadcast for the world, cannot be easy. Maybe they need to rethink how it's done? 

Yes, it must be very difficult ..  but maybe Masi just isn't the man for the job.

 

 

[ClaphamFox]

7 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Yes, it must be very difficult ..  but maybe Masi just isn't the man for the job.

 

 

Totally agree.

[Stinkenzo]

If anything, if there is a time where you have to keep to the rule book, it is those last few laps yesterday. Shot himself right in the foot and hopefully out of a job

[BlueSi13]

Oh dear.  Masi after the 2020 Eifel GP regarding the deployment of the safety car:

 

If MB decide to pursue this, Masi and the FIA are ****ed.

 

However no doubt backroom negotiations will be happening as we speak.

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

Oh dear.  Masi after the 2020 Eifel GP regarding the deployment of the safety car:

 

If MB decide to pursue this, Masi and the FIA are ****ed.

 

However no doubt backroom negotiations will be happening as we speak.

As much as I agree with you mate, nothing will happen. I myself got worked up about it yesterday as it's annoying seeing a sport I love in total disarray but you can't change the outcome nor have an affect on the future, so why let it bother you.?

[BlueSi13]

Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

As much as I agree with you mate, nothing will happen. I myself got worked up about it yesterday as it's annoying seeing a sport I love in total disarray but you can't change the outcome nor have an affect on the future, so why let it bother you.?

All good mate.  I also love this sport, invested a lot of time in it over the years and to see something like happen is infuriating.  

 

You're right, no chance this gets overturned.  But I would like to see sweeping changes made to the rules to ensure this sort of thing never happens again.  Also Masi needs to go but that's pretty much a given at this point,

[The Horse's Mouth]

In terms of the records,everyone was focused on the 8th title, but had Lewis won yesterday he would've matched the consecutive titles as well. That's one schumi can guarantee he'll keep now I imagine 

[st albans fox]

57 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

The only people that gained an unfair advantage during that period were the lapped cars who were allowed to overtake the safety car, Mercedes ****ed up by not pitting.

Mercedes never had a large enough lead to pit and retain the lead. It was too large a risk to take because they simply didn’t want to get into a race with max for obvious reasons. Max had nothing to lose by pitting because he wasn’t catching Lewis without an SC or Lewis’ tyres dropping off a cliff.

 

I can’t quote instances but this isn’t the first time a chasing driver has got lucky because of a SC late on. I’m sure Lewis has won a race under similar circumstances- max got lucky - Lewis got unlucky …. It was the most high profile example you’ll find though! 

[st albans fox]

42 minutes ago, Walkers said:

Yeah of course, but as arace director you don't just sit there and think "Sainz probably wouldnt wanna get involved so we'll keep him well away". Otherwise you may aswell have just had a race start of Lewis/Max and then 5s later 3rd place and below could have moved away. be interested to see what would have happened had the race restarted with those cars inbetween them. I can honestly imagine them all jumping out the way at the first opportunity, which would have seen Max have about a lap and 2 or 3 corners to catch him from i'm guessing about 1.5s back. His last lap was 3s quicker, he'd probably have still won.

I don’t think it would have played out quite as simply as that……