Formula 1 2021

[Leicester_Loyal]

Mercedes are going to abort their appeal.

 

I imagine they'll not want everyones dirty laundry aired in public and the name of F1 being dragged through the mud.

[Stinkenzo]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

I don’t think it would have played out quite as simply as that……

Well yeah hence "probably have still won" But the only overtaking spots are in the middle of the lap, would have been tight for him to have caught up by then. If he was willing to divebomb at T1 he'd have happily done the same at the last corner from a second back

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Mercedes are going to abort their appeal.

 

I imagine they'll not want everyones dirty laundry aired in public and the name of F1 being dragged through the mud.

Thank God for that, already soured the title win could not be arsed with this going on for a few months lol.

[st albans fox]

Just now, Walkers said:

Well yeah hence "probably have still won" But the only overtaking spots are in the middle of the lap, would have been tight for him to have caught up by then. If he was willing to divebomb at T1 he'd have happily done the same at the last corner from a second back

But Lewis would have drawn away a little whilst max negotiated the back markers - perhaps a second ??  That makes a difference when it comes to defending the corner …

all hypocritical of course 

[Stinkenzo]

16 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

Oh dear.  Masi after the 2020 Eifel GP regarding the deployment of the safety car:

 

If MB decide to pursue this, Masi and the FIA are ****ed.

 

However no doubt backroom negotiations will be happening as we speak.

Probably just said "all" cars loosely. Doubt the rules have changed for that in the last 18 months.

 

You can forgive him for not knowing every single one of the thousands of rules, I still feel he just did whatever he wanted and if anything Red Bull have been clever and saved him to an extent by pointing out "any" doesn't mean "all" - which is true, but as far as i'm aware "any" has always meant "all" when the situation has cropped up over the years.

[Stinkenzo]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

But Lewis would have drawn away a little whilst max negotiated the back markers - perhaps a second ??  That makes a difference when it comes to defending the corner …

all hypocritical of course 

If the lapped drivers knew the situation (which they would have if their teams are competent) I can't help but feel they would immediately park it tbh, there's no way they'd risk getting involved or wanting to be the bad guy. I don't see a situation where Hamilton would have pulled away while he was waiting for them to budge

[PhillippaT]

16 minutes ago, Walkers said:

If the lapped drivers knew the situation (which they would have if their teams are competent) I can't help but feel they would immediately park it tbh, there's no way they'd risk getting involved or wanting to be the bad guy. I don't see a situation where Hamilton would have pulled away while he was waiting for them to budge

I think Lewis would have gained some advantage form this, but not enough if they'd acted asap.  I don't see how racing without unlapping any cars, would have changed the outcome from what it is, (whilst annoying both teams equally!), but it would at least have been fully within the rules to do so.  As it is, it's Red Bull who got the rules broken in their favour, (they were lobbying him for exactly the outcome we got!), and Masi who's responsible for doing so.

Edited 13 December 2021 by PhillippaT

[yorkie1999]

54 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Mercedes are going to abort their appeal.

 

I imagine they'll not want everyones dirty laundry aired in public and the name of F1 being dragged through the mud.

That's a shame, Netflix were already working on "Litigate to Suvive"

[Zear0]

I half expect Lewis to push to get this appeal nonsense dropped as it's indirectly dragging his name and reputation through the mud.  No two ways about it, Masi f***ed this up big time and the literal panic in his voice speaking to RB and Merc was painful.  It's not fair, but unfortunately in all sports human cock ups are part of the package that we must live with.  The FIA are spinning it as if he used his discretion to make the decision that he did after it happened, when it's very clear he had a complete flap and panicked.  The rules are sufficiently vague there is absolute no chance an appeal is successful and the FIA have lucked out indirectly in having them worded as they are.   I said it after the Saudi GP that this bloke is out his depth and needs to be replaced and this has further reinforced my view.  The spats between RB, Merc and himself are so unedifying and he clearly doesn't have their respect.  Silverstone, Brazil, Saudi, Abu Dhabi, Monza and worst of all Belgium have demonstrated some utterly inept and inconsistent management of the sport.

 

For the good of the sport, boot this appeal away, boot Masi away and just focus on next year.

[yorkie1999]

55 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

But Lewis would have drawn away a little whilst max negotiated the back markers - perhaps a second ??  That makes a difference when it comes to defending the corner …

all hypocritical of course 

Nah, it's 3 corners per car for blue flags, plus 2 of the drivers had mercedes engines in them and another 2 were renaults, who fell out with redbull.

[The Horse's Mouth]

20 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

I half expect Lewis to push to get this appeal nonsense dropped as it's indirectly dragging his name and reputation through the mud.  No two ways about it, Masi f***ed this up big time and the literal panic in his voice speaking to RB and Merc was painful.  It's not fair, but unfortunately in all sports human cock ups are part of the package that we must live with.  The FIA are spinning it as if he used his discretion to make the decision that he did after it happened, when it's very clear he had a complete flap and panicked.  The rules are sufficiently vague there is absolute no chance an appeal is successful and the FIA have lucked out indirectly in having them worded as they are.   I said it after the Saudi GP that this bloke is out his depth and needs to be replaced and this has further reinforced my view.  The spats between RB, Merc and himself are so unedifying and he clearly doesn't have their respect.  Silverstone, Brazil, Saudi, Abu Dhabi, Monza and worst of all Belgium have demonstrated some utterly inept and inconsistent management of the sport.

 

For the good of the sport, boot this appeal away, boot Masi away and just focus on next year.

I think it's more Toto calming down rather than Lewis getting involved, pursuing it further would've been pointless really and bad for the sport. 

[Pliskin]

In all honesty, I personally think Hamilton is a cock end, so part of me is smirking this morning watching the highlights, naturally the incident reflects badly on the sport but yea, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little bit satisfied Lewis lost. 

[Stinkenzo]

8 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

In all honesty, I personally think Hamilton is a cock end, so part of me is smirking this morning watching the highlights, naturally the incident reflects badly on the sport but yea, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little bit satisfied Lewis lost. 

Thanks for coming here to share that with us

[Pliskin]

Just now, Walkers said:

Thanks for coming here to share that with us

No problem, hopefully it’s added something to your day 

[Stinkenzo]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

No problem, hopefully it’s added something to your day 

[goody2028]

Can’t explain how annoying it is seeing people on social media vent about the race yesterday, knowing that was the first time they’ve ever watched F1. Personally I loved every part of this season and yesterday was amazing viewing. More of the same next season please...

[cityfanlee23]

19 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Thats not the complaint, the complaint is the fact the whole field didn't unlap themselves not that the race restarted, had Masi had got this done ASAP then it wouldn't have been an issue, but he flip flopped

AFAIK the rules state that the safety car stays out for 1 lap after everyone has unlapped themselves anyway, so there was no way they would have got any racing laps in. Technically the safety car would have ended up being 4-5 laps IIRC. 
 

[The Horse's Mouth]

lol

 

[cityfanlee23]

I guess one of the main questions becomes "what now for Masi?" Does he go? is he competent? 
He's had a shocking season, but I'll be honest, some of the decisions he made were tough, even yesterday for example, me and a friend were going over every possible scenario that would have been a better option, but each solution we had brought up glaring issues, for example we thought after the SC had done 2-3 laps and the car was only just being cleared, we though red flagging would have been best, allow all the cars to pit and change tyres, then maybe extend the race 2-3 laps to give them a proper finish, but then the question remains over fuel. 

It's a tough job no doubt, especially since we only hear the 2 main teams communicating, I expect he has teams in his ear constantly, all voicing their opinions which of course he has to listen to as every team needs to be treated fairly. 
So does Masi go? or do we need to change the rules having learned lessons from this season? 

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 minute ago, cityfanlee23 said:

AFAIK the rules state that the safety car stays out for 1 lap after everyone has unlapped themselves anyway, so there was no way they would have got any racing laps in. Technically the safety car would have ended up being 4-5 laps IIRC. 
 

Yeah realistically and ideally they should've all unlapped and bunched up in order ASAP, but the outcome would've been the same for Lewis, if the teams did agree that they wanted it to finish under green flag conditions and the releasing of those cars was safe I don't see the issue bar the fact the person you wanted to win didn't. And I think that's the main issue here, if the safety car procedure violated safety then I'd probably agree. Only people who should feel aggrieved were the ones who had pitted but didn't get chance to unlap themselves and claim a few positions like Max managed on Lewis 

[Manini]

5 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

 

Dads taking the divorce well 

[cityfanlee23]

7 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

 

Amazing, this is the most "Mike Bassett bar scene" thing i've ever witnessed 

[cityfanlee23]

4 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Yeah realistically and ideally they should've all unlapped and bunched up in order ASAP, but the outcome would've been the same for Lewis, if the teams did agree that they wanted it to finish under green flag conditions and the releasing of those cars was safe I don't see the issue bar the fact the person you wanted to win didn't. And I think that's the main issue here, if the safety car procedure violated safety then I'd probably agree. Only people who should feel aggrieved were the ones who had pitted but didn't get chance to unlap themselves and claim a few positions like Max managed on Lewis 

The problem is, the reason Mercedes did not pit is because they would lose track position under safety car, meaning they would have potentially gifted max a default win on a race where Max drove like shit and Lewis did not miss a beat. 
It's nothing to do with who people wanted to win, it's an unjust finish because of the pit circumstances. Red Bull had zero risk attached to pitting, Merc had zero upside to pitting based on the rules of F1. Those rules were changed on the final lap of the final race of a title decider, and on the day, in this event, on this race, the best driver lost and was shafted by poor race management. It's been a theme of the entire season for both sides. 

You also obviously bring up the important point regarding other cars, it would have been far easier for Max knowing he does not even have to defend his own position, and harsh on Carlos who did not get a chance to challenge in the slip stream, then Tsunoda, who was hampered further and could have got a podium. Ultimately, the ending of this season was a farce. 

[Countryfox]

33 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

 

 

He won the constructers title for Mercedes  ...  that's what he's paid to do. 

 

Lewis who ??    

[The Horse's Mouth]

51 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

The problem is, the reason Mercedes did not pit is because they would lose track position under safety car, meaning they would have potentially gifted max a default win on a race where Max drove like shit and Lewis did not miss a beat. 
It's nothing to do with who people wanted to win, it's an unjust finish because of the pit circumstances. Red Bull had zero risk attached to pitting, Merc had zero upside to pitting based on the rules of F1. Those rules were changed on the final lap of the final race of a title decider, and on the day, in this event, on this race, the best driver lost and was shafted by poor race management. It's been a theme of the entire season for both sides. 

You also obviously bring up the important point regarding other cars, it would have been far easier for Max knowing he does not even have to defend his own position, and harsh on Carlos who did not get a chance to challenge in the slip stream, then Tsunoda, who was hampered further and could have got a podium. Ultimately, the ending of this season was a farce. 

The pit circumstances are irrelevant though, these strategy calls are part and parcel of F1, Redbull had nothing to lose in that situation cause they had the gap on the rest of the field, because Max had done his job in the race. The race director should not decide to end the race under safety car purely because of these variables you've brought up, you can't just finish the race under safety car because Redbull have made a perfectly legitimate gamble to level the playing field with Lewis. 

 

And looking at the contentious issue, Sainz was on a 1 stop on much worn tyres on a weaker compound, while I definitely agree that he can still feel aggrieved the likelihood of him challenging Max off the line was extremely unlikely anyway and clutching at straws really. (EDIT: also I could be wrong here but didn't he have backmarkers behind him to cement his position as 3rd?)The safety car restart for the cars we are disputing here in 44 and 33 is exactly how every safety car restart is done(barring bad conditions i.e weather). 

 

The rule that was "changed" was the fact that they need another lap to bunch up to the pack, which at the end of the day didn't have any impact on the result in question. But as I said, those cars that didn't unlap should be the ones most aggrieved by the decision

 

I understand it's a bitter pill to swallow and I did say that I think Masi handled it poorly and he had backed himself into a corner. He needs to be much more of a dictator rather than flip flopping cause it does continue to undermine him, even with the first incident where Lewis cut the corner, I thought that was definitely a penalty but Masi stuck to his guns and said this is what it is deal with it.But I think people are largely fuming because Max had the tyre advantage which was perfectly legal in this context.

Edited 13 December 2021 by The Horse's Mouth