Formula 1 2021

[jammie82uk]

1 minute ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

There was to ensure it didn’t finish under the safety car and rules weren’t broken like only letting through some lapped cars 

The stewards have deemed no rules have been broken 

[foxes_rule1978]

One minute they say lapped cars can’t pass a few laps later after Horner is moaning, they allow only the ones in front of max… sorry Masi should be sacked it is a joke. There is no defending that. I don’t think max is at fault but Masi is and max deserves the title 

[Raj]

We can all disagree with the intricacies  of the race,but I think we all agree the race director would not have made the decisions  he did had this been a run of the mill, mid season race.

Edited 13 December 2021 by Raj

[jammie82uk]

1 minute ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

One minute they say lapped cars can’t pass a few laps later after Horner is moaning, they allow only the ones in front of max… sorry Masi should be sacked it is a joke. There is no defending that. I don’t think max is at fault but Masi is and max deserves the title 

Horner asked why the lapped cars wasn’t being let though, Masi said he wanted to clear the current incident first which is right according to the rules, he made the decision to then allow cars to pass after the incident had cleared, unless we hear the full unedited conversation between them it’s hard to call 100% judgement on it 

[The Horse's Mouth]

20 minutes ago, Walkers said:

Yes Sainz wouldn't have realistically competed for the win but the decision to leave a lapped car(s) between him and the leaders shows that every decision made during the safety car period was with only Hamilton, Verstappen and the spectacle at the forefront. Nobody else mattered. 

That rule is literally there to protect the fight at the front of the field

[foxes_rule1978]

2 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

Horner asked why the lapped cars wasn’t being let though, Masi said he wanted to clear the current incident first which is right according to the rules, he made the decision to then allow cars to pass after the incident had cleared, unless we hear the full unedited conversation between them it’s hard to call 100% judgement on it 

All lapped cars have to pass in which, they didn’t … why because they knew that the safety car would have had to stay out for the last lap for that to happen.max won and that shouldn’t change, he was going by the rules given not his fault. However it was very poor from Masi 

Edited 13 December 2021 by foxes_rule1978

[foxes1988]

Go Max

 

Pleased for Max he's been great all year.  Both drivers would have been worthy to be honest but Verstappen I think on balance was just ahead over the course of the year.

 

Not sure I agreed that Lewis had given enough track position back after the T1 incident and personally feel Max was a little hard done by here when comparing to last week.

 

With regards the safety car it just reminds me of what I don't like about the sport sometimes.  Personally never feels right when the driver who has dominated gets done over by a safety car.  I know its part of the sport but those kind of things are very off putting.

 

Also i'm not a big Hamilton Fan but I did enjoy him and his fathers gracious responses to losing in what was obviously for him very frustrating circumstances.  Anthony congratulating Jos and Max was a real highlight.

 

Wish 'Fans' of the drivers would act a little more like they did tbh.

 

 

[AKCJ]

How good is elite level sport? Better than any film or television programme for me

[yorkie1999]

16 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

That's not really what they're saying. The race director chose to not apply the rules which changed how the end of the race panned out.

 

It'd be like the referee in football deciding not to apply the handball rule for the last 5 minutes of a game without telling anyone because it would make it more exciting.

 

The thing is, the rules have been followed. Basically, the race director,whose job it is to control the race and ensure if possible that cars can race if it's safe to do so(which is what the sport is all about), can overule decisions concerning the safety car and instruct the safety car to turn it's lights off if he thinks the drivers can race, which means the race restarts at the next lap. The unlapping rule is designed to prevent lapped cars from interferring with leaders which is why the wording is "any cars" and not "all cars" and that's why only those cars between Hamilton and Verstappen were required to unlap themselves. I think the fact it all happened so quickly is where the problem lies. Mercedes could have changed Hamiltons tyres at the same time as Redbull did with Verstappen and kept track position but they probably thought the race was won. Hamilton didn't fvck up, his team did,  and i thought he came out of it with his head held high 

[The Horse's Mouth]

Watching the last lap with the toto radio because inject it, but can I just say crofty gets a lot of flack but he called that last lap perfectly

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

All lapped cars have to pass in which, they didn’t … why because they knew that the safety car would have had to stay out for the last lap for that to happen.max won and that shouldn’t change, he was going by the rules given not his fault. However it was very poor from Masi 

No, they don't, it's any lapped car can unlap themselves so they don't interfere with the leader. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

No, they don't, it's any lapped car can unlap themselves so they don't interfere with the leader. 

Hasn’t it always been all lapped cars though? Never before have they chosen to allow a select few cars to unlap but not the rest? 

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Hasn’t it always been all lapped cars though? Never before have they chosen to allow a select few cars to unlap but not the rest? 

Depends on the conditions usually, a lot of wet races its been here and there.

[BlueSi13]

Now I've slept on it I am even more appalled to be honest.

 

I cannot think of of another instance in all of sport where the referee has decided to invent some new rules at the end of a contest in order to provide the finish HE wanted.  

 

The example I keep thinking of is the Brazil 1-7 Germany game, all the players on the pitch, all the fans in the stadium, the millions watching on TV, all of them knew come the 90th minute it was all over, Germany were simply just too good, Brazil had been comprehensively dismantled over the course of the match.  

 

But then imagine the referee just decides "**** this, this isn't how it's supposed to go" and then just tells the teams there will be a penalty shootout at the end of the match to decide the winner....oh and BTW Germany, your keeper will not be required.  That's how badly Hamilton and Mercedes have been ****ed over.  It's unprecedented.  

 

If this had been an early/mid-season race then MAYBE you could let it slide with a "don't pull that shit again Masi".  But this was to decide the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.  That shit won't fly.  Mercedes could not strategise for the last lap being rigged, nor did they have any time in the race to respond or fight back.  That wasn't "racing". 

 

This might not even be about Hamilton losing a world title.  At the end of the day Mercedes-Benz take part in Formula 1 for 2 reasons.  Money and prestige.  Not winning a world title severely damages both.  The FIA are bang to rights on this one and if this ends up in front of CAS then MB are rightfully going to demand financial compensation that could potentially break the FIA altogether.  

 

On the flip side, maybe Masi isn't the true villain of the piece, Masi had seemingly made his decision to not allow cars to unlap but after pressure from Horner to get the back markers out of Verstappens way once he had his new boots on "we only need one lap", Masi's response was essentially "hold on a minute..." and voila, advantage Red Bull, game over Mercedes.  Who was Masi talking too, and what made him change his mind so suddenly in the manner that he did?

 

If the FIA don't come up with a better explanation than "what the director says goes" then accusations of race-fixing are coming down the line fast.

[Stinkenzo]

So why was yesterday (probably) the first ever time that only a select few cars were asked to **** off out the way? The spectacle. To see if a hare could outrun a tortoise. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

The only people that gained an unfair advantage during that period were the lapped cars who were allowed to overtake the safety car, Mercedes ****ed up by not pitting.

[Countryfox]

Lewis mugged.      

 

Rules are rules but the best driver did not win on the day.

 

Max's time will come and he will be a major force in the sport but gutted that Lewis didn't win his 8th and get ahead of Schumacher. 

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Walkers said:

So why was yesterday (probably) the first ever time that only a select few cars were asked to **** off out the way? The spectacle. To see if a hare could outrun a tortoise. 

Because those cars were interfering with the leaders, i think the rule exists because of renault and crashgate where Piquet Jr was instructed to run into a wall so alonso could finish behind a safety car and win a world title.  The whole point of racing is who is first over the line, not who follows a safety car over the line.

[UniFox21]

49 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

He was a sitting duck because he didn't pit, Masi shouldn't be making decisions based on the fact Merc gambled on the race finishing under SC. It didn't warrant a red flag.

 

 

For sure he was a sitting duck, but you have to ask why Masi didn't allow all lapped cars to overtake rather than picking those just at the front. 

 

People will probably argue over this for years, great result for Max, shame the stewards have made the bigger headlines through the season.

[Countryfox]

59 minutes ago, The Bear said:

 

 

 

Once he'd sorted that out he changed his mind and allowed lapped cars to unlap themselves. The only issue is his decision to pick and and choose what cars to unlap themselves, which is wooly at best. 

 

 

 

The way I have heard it is he only needs to let cars unlap that are affecting the cars that are competing for first place ..   so therefore he was following the rules exactly.

 

Some of his other decisions were dubious to say the least but Mercedes will not get them overturned.

 

It is what it is ..  

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

For sure he was a sitting duck, but you have to ask why Masi didn't allow all lapped cars to overtake rather than picking those just at the front. 

 

People will probably argue over this for years, great result for Max, shame the stewards have made the bigger headlines through the season.

 

See mine and Yorkies posts above ..  he followed the rules.  

[Footballwipe]

Just out of interest, had Lewis had held off Max or Max had overrun a corner and finished second, would the calls for Masi to go still be so strong? Would the accusations of race fixing be so prevalent?

 

I just wonder whether the outrage of this decision is down to what Masi decided, or the fact it cost the driver you support his world championship?

[The Bear]

Ultimately it was a manufactured finish from the race director purely for the "show" of a last lap showdown. The FIA admitted as much when they said they wanted it to finish under racing conditions. Normally it would have been a safety car finish. 

[UniFox21]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 

See mine and Yorkies posts above ..  he followed the rules.  

Saw after posting, just haven't edited my post yet, I just hadn't seen any reaction explaining what you'd heard yet. 

 

Still overall my takeaway is this year, whilst an Excellent year of racing with some brilliant moments, has been too tarnished by stewarding. The farce of the Austrian (?) GP with the rain along with other decisions had really shown how out of depth the FIA is. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

4 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

For sure he was a sitting duck, but you have to ask why Masi didn't allow all lapped cars to overtake rather than picking those just at the front. 

 

People will probably argue over this for years, great result for Max, shame the stewards have made the bigger headlines through the season.

Like I alluded to before, the rule is always to protect the race at the front. As revealed as well there was an agreement for the race to finish within green flags conditions.

 

I think where Masi did **** up seriously was saying they wouldn't overtake, it's another flip flop that's made the decision look daft.