Formula 1 2021

[Rusko187]

19 hours ago, Super_horns said:

Some radio from the other drivers/teams show the confusion and sudden change of plans made.

 

 

Think Sainz put it best, was dangerous to include lapped cars in that final lap... it was always going to be a free-for-all and having a situation like that could have really turned nasty. Also, unfair to him as he didn't get the benefit of a clear path like the front runners.

 

What a total mess, I can see it being a case that if something is decided in court.. the championship remains the same but heavy compensation paid out.

[Pliskin]

On 14/12/2021 at 18:15, cityfanlee23 said:

Good grief. It would take roughly 3 laps to clear the debris, then 1 lap for everyone to unlap themselves, then the safety car is required to do 1 full lap with everyone in the correct position. That's 5 laps. The crash happened with 5 laps left. If Mercedes pitted, Max would have stayed out, thus giving him the championship under a safety car. That is why they could not afford to pit, because they followed the rules, yes, this is strategy, because the rules of this scenario is a massive part of strategy. They followed the rules, those rules got changed. So they are absolutely relevant. We had 1 lap of racing specifically because Masi broke the rules of F1. If he had followed the rules, it would not have been green racing conditions. With respect mate, this info is freely available. 

As i've said, i'm frankly bored/tired of max fans who havent read the rules giving opinions on why Merc did what they did. The rules are clear, Mercedes knew them, so did Ferrari etc. Red Bull took a gamble as they had nothing to lose, their only strategy was to do the opposite of merc. Merc were forced by the rules to stay out because the race SHOULD have ended under SC if the rules were followed. It's not irrelevant, it's the entire conversation in a nutshell. If you still cannot see this, you never will. 

We can agree to disagree on this. Otherwise we will go in circles. 

Absolutely… and what did Horner say pre race? We need a miracle and the racing gods need to be looking upon us….. They somehow managed to get both rolled into one….. the more you re-watch that those final laps the worse it looks. 

[goody2028]

 

[The Bear]

8 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Absolutely… and what did Horner say pre race? We need a miracle and the racing gods need to be looking upon us….. They somehow managed to get both rolled into one….. the more you re-watch that those final laps the worse it looks. 

He said that mid-race in his last chat with Croft/Brundle about 15 laps before the end. 

Edited 16 December 2021 by The Bear

[yorkie1999]

On 15/12/2021 at 02:24, Super_horns said:

Some radio from the other drivers/teams show the confusion and sudden change of plans made.

 

 

After listening to that it seemed that it was Sainz that wanted the lapped cars out of the way because of how dangerous it would be with oil on the track at the crash site and trying to overtake them. Unfortuneatly for him, they didn't clear the lapped cars between him and verstappen.

[UniFox21]

Merc withdraw that appeal. Hardly a shock, assume there's an off table settlement

 

 

[Costock_Fox]

10 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Merc withdraw that appeal. Hardly a shock, assume there's an off table settlement

 

 

Was coming on to say, I’m confused as to why they would but clearly something has happened in the background to influence it.

[UniFox21]

6 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Was coming on to say, I’m confused as to why they would but clearly something has happened in the background to influence it.

For me, nothing will be accepted as a fault big enough to void the result.

FIA have accepted they have ****ed the race up, will likely have paid a settlement or something with promises things will be rectified for next year. 

[Stinkenzo]

Shame but any appeal would have been like talking to a brick wall anyway. 

[Costock_Fox]

3 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

For me, nothing will be accepted as a fault big enough to void the result.

FIA have accepted they have ****ed the race up, will likely have paid a settlement or something with promises things will be rectified for next year. 

Agreed, it’s an individual **** up.

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, The Bear said:

He said that mid-race in his last chat with Croft/Brundle about 15 laps before the end. 

Ah, I only got the highlights as I was at the footy, sky made it seem like it was said before. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Merc withdraw that appeal. Hardly a shock, assume there's an off table settlement

 

 

Noooo toto noooo this is not right 

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://wtf1.com/post/wolff-believes-mercedes-would-have-likely-won-abu-dhabi-appeal-if-judged-in-a-regular-court/

 

Quote

Just hours after announcing that Mercedes would not be appealing the race result from the Abu Dhabi season finale, in which their driver Lewis Hamilton lost out on an eighth world championship in very controversial circumstances, boss Toto Wolff has been talking to the press about his thoughts on the whole thing.

After taking the lead on the first lap of the race, Hamilton looked set to finish ahead of his championship rival Max Verstappen and take a record-breaking eighth drivers’ title. That was until a late crash from Nicholas Latifi in his Williams triggered a safety car and meant Verstappen could pit for fresh tyres. With a select number of cars between both Hamilton and Verstappen being allowed to overtake to get out their way, Verstappen was able to make a last-lap move for the lead of the race and won the championship in the process.

Mercedes immediately protested this decision by the FIA after the race results, saying it was an alleged breach of Article 48.12 of the Sporting Regulations and failed to follow the correct Safety Car procedure. This protest, as well as another about overtaking under the safety car, were both thrown out by the FIA. It was after this dismissal that the Mercedes team lodged their intent to appeal the decision.

After a few days of silence from the Mercedes team, who also won their eighth constructors’ championship over the weekend, Toto Wolff has finally spoken out.

When asked by The Race on how close Mercedes came to actually submitting an appeal, Wolff said they “believed we had a very strong case and if you look at it from the legal side, if it would have been judged in a regular court, it was almost guaranteed that we would have won.

“The problem with the ICA (FIA’s International Court of Appeal) is the way it’s structured. The FIA can’t really mark their own homework, and there is a difference between being right and obtaining justice. “So there is a lesson to be learned: how can we ensure that going forward, in situations like that, the right decisions are being taken?”

Wolff also added that Mercedes “cannot continue in a sport that is meant to be sport followed by entertainment and not the other way around.” Ooft.

Both Hamilton and Wolff will not be present at the FIA Prize Giving Ceremony this evening.

 

Edited 16 December 2021 by Leicester_Loyal

[Stinkenzo]

I see Verstappen has said Hamilton won a championship in similar circumstances in 2008. Did Charlie Whiting do a deal with mother nature or something? **** me he actually doesn't get it does he?

[BlueSi13]

8 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

https://wtf1.com/post/wolff-believes-mercedes-would-have-likely-won-abu-dhabi-appeal-if-judged-in-a-regular-court/

 

There is a problem with this quote (regarding why they didn't proceed with the appeal):

 

“The problem with the ICA (FIA’s International Court of Appeal) is the way it’s structured. The FIA can’t really mark their own homework, and there is a difference between being right and obtaining justice. “So there is a lesson to be learned: how can we ensure that going forward, in situations like that, the right decisions are being taken?”

 

If the appeals process is basically pointless due to it not being independent, why would would the FIA change the legal framework?  It suits them perfectly.  Wolff probably knows this hence the subsequent quote:

 

"Wolff also added that Mercedes “cannot continue in a sport that is meant to be sport followed by entertainment and not the other way around.""

 

What a shit show....looking at some of Mercedes social media and they almost look and sound like a team that is edging toward the exit.  By all accounts it's also 50:50 whether Hamilton himself will return for next season.  Dark times (unless you're a Verstappen fan obviously).

[BlueSi13]

10 minutes ago, Walkers said:

I see Verstappen has said Hamilton won a championship in similar circumstances in 2008. Did Charlie Whiting do a deal with mother nature or something? **** me he actually doesn't get it does he?

Playing to the gallery.  His weird fans on social media will lap it up and won't even bother researching what actually happened in 2008.  It'll just be something they throw back when someone talks about Masi handing Verstappen the title.  

[The Horse's Mouth]

Great professionalism from Mercedes

[Jimmy]

With the talk of Lewis walking away, not that I think he will but if he did I hope they could get Seb out of Aston Martin

[Asha]

Hamilton has benefited from a disgusting amount of luck over his career.
 

Even just this season, if he hadn’t cvnted Max out in Silverstone it wouldn’t have even gone to Abu Dhabi. 
 

Let him walk away from the sport. There are younger more exciting drivers we want to see in better cars. 

 

[kingkisnorbo]

5 hours ago, Jimmy said:

With the talk of Lewis walking away, not that I think he will but if he did I hope they could get Seb out of Aston Martin

I read somewhere they think Gasly could be in contention for that seat when Hamilton bins it. Would be a really interesting move. 

[Saigon Fox]

5 hours ago, Asha said:

Hamilton has benefited from a disgusting amount of luck over his career.
 

Even just this season, if he hadn’t cvnted Max out in Silverstone it wouldn’t have even gone to Abu Dhabi. 
 

Let him walk away from the sport. There are younger more exciting drivers we want to see in better cars. 

 

What a load of tripe.

[Nick]

I’m an F1 fan with no axe to grind against Max or Lewis. I’ve enjoyed the racing this season. The result though has left me a tad disillusioned and apathetic about the sport. It is what it is and won’t change now but race directors decision making in the last race has certainly damaged the sport. 

[Countryfox]

Jeez some funny old posts on here ! ..  

 

I really hope Lewis is back racing next season but I’m not so sure as some that he definitely will be. Horner and Verstappen have gone right down in my estimation. Like Swanny has said above, I’m a tad disillusioned with the sport and think it will be quite a while, if at all, to shake that feeling  off. 

[Stinkenzo]

Only about 13 weeks til the Netflix Grand Prix, crazy 

[foxes1988]

39 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Jeez some funny old posts on here ! ..  

 

I really hope Lewis is back racing next season but I’m not so sure as some that he definitely will be. Horner and Verstappen have gone right down in my estimation. Like Swanny has said above, I’m a tad disillusioned with the sport and think it will be quite a while, if at all, to shake that feeling  off. 

I Think once the 2022 season starts it will quickly get back to normality.

 

Would imagine Hamilton is still coming back next season, if he won in 2007 or 2016 and he was going for his 9th title last season rather then his 8th then he might retire but I think hell one come back and have a crack at an 8th title and within the new regs.