Not The Politics Thread.

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Seems to be one of the minority of honourable and highly capable Tories (of various persuasions), like Rory Stewart, Ruth Davidson, even Andrew Mitchell.....who share the quality of having been discarded by our narcissistic King Charlatan.

 

 

I don’t think those Tories are a minority.  So much talent was excluded from government due to Brexit, they are left very lightweight in handling Covid and just about anything else.  We voted Boris to deliver Brexit, and the timing couldn’t have been worse.

[st albans fox]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

It’s amazing how the Met had no interest in investigating until them investigating helped the Government bury the bad news.

Well they said there was nothing to investigate until gray’s report gave them the evidence.  the obvious question is why they didn’t think there was anything to investigate (presumably their inaction at the time the gatherings took place is relevant) when they are on site and must have noted things were going on.   Once the report was being prepared, they said they would wait to see what it revealed. 

[weller54]

40 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I don’t think those Tories are a minority.  So much talent was excluded from government due to Brexit, they are left very lightweight in handling Covid and just about anything else.  We voted Boris to deliver Brexit, and the timing couldn’t have been worse.

But Brexit is far from 'done'!!... it's still a megaexpensive mistake that's fvcked up thousands of businesses in the UK!

So how has Johnson 'delivered Brexit'?.... delivery will only come when the fairies and unicorns bring huge financial advantages to the UK and the NHS get their promised £350,000,000 a week!!

 

[Buce]

 

It says everything about this shower of shit when even Jon the Hat can't defend them.

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Speaking of whom:

 

 

 

 

 

Desperation. Put the spotlight on someone else at all costs.

[Alf Bentley]

39 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I don’t think those Tories are a minority.  So much talent was excluded from government due to Brexit, they are left very lightweight in handling Covid and just about anything else.  We voted Boris to deliver Brexit, and the timing couldn’t have been worse.

 

If the honourable, capable Tory MPs were not a minority, wouldn't they be getting rid of Johnson after all he's done and said?

A number have spoken out and deserve credit for that. But it seems they cannot even summon up 54 Tory MPs to write letters calling for a vote of no confidence.

 

I'm not saying that every other Tory MP is useless and completely unprincipled, but it shows a lack of principle and backbone not to act when things get this bad. Something similar happened in the US Republican Party, didn't it?

Only a minority of Republicans in Congress actively backed Trump's ideas, but a majority are not prepared to challenge his dominance despite all he's done - so his thinking continues to dominate their party.

Somewhat different scenario here in that Johnson no longer seems to have the grassroots backing that Trump enjoys. I assume there are a lot of Tory MPs who've decided: "he's dishonest, unsuited to PM, has been a disgracefully bad leader....but he's our best hope of winning, so let's forget about the down side, eh?"

 

Trump called Johnson "Britain Trump", didn't he?

In some ways, there's no direct comparison, as I think Johnson lacks Trump's attraction to Far Right / racist thinking.

But there are major similarities, too: Massive narcissism, contempt for democracy, contempt for the truth, cynical opportunism.....and representatives in Parliament/Congress mostly not prepared to reject a man manifestly unfit for senior office.

 

You're right that a lot of talent was excluded due to Brexit - and not just excluded from government, it was often excluded from parliament and the party itself or forced to self-exclude (Grieve, Gauke, Stewart etc.)

 

But was there any need for that talent to be excluded? May had a cabinet that included a wide range of views on Brexit - 2016 Remainers (including May herself), Hard Brexiteers, Soft Brexiteers.

 

Go back further. Go back to any govt in my lifetime and the cabinet included a range of views: Wilson/Callaghan had Foot/Benn in their cabinets; Thatcher had Heseltine, Clarke & the Wets; Major had Portillo & Co; Blair had Cook & Short....

[RoboFox]

Huge backlash and rightly so about Johnson's desperate Savile deflection. The slur which has been widely, independently debunked was found to have originated in a far right-wing Facebook group FFS. 

 

This is the fvcking Prime Minister in the commons. 

 

It wasn't that long ago we'd stand watching across the Atlantic agog at the continuous catastrophic shit-show which was the Trump regime. It genuinely feels now like we're reaching those levels of amoral absurdity. How have we as a nation allowed these people to drag the country into the fvcking gutter with them? 

 

'When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace becomes a circus.' - Adapted Turkish proverb

 

Edited 1 February 2022 by RoboFox

[urban.spaceman]

Another letter...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dunge]

11 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

Huge backlash and rightly so about Johnson's desperate Savile deflection. The slur which has been widely, independently debunked was found to have originated in a far right-wing Facebook group FFS. 

 

This is the fvcking Prime Minister in the commons. 

 

It wasn't that long ago we'd stand watching across the Atlantic agog at the continuous catastrophic shit-show which was the Trump regime. It genuinely feels now like we're reaching those levels of amoral absurdity. How have we as a nation allowed these people to drag the country into the fvcking gutter with them? 

 

'When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace becomes a circus.' - Adapted Turkish proverb

 

This, basically.

 

That Boris should cast that slur in the first place is a disgrace. That he should double down on it is even worse. How the hell any Conservative MP can back him after that alone, never mind the rest of it, is nuts. I really hope they’re just all waiting for someone else to be seen holding the knife, because his behaviour is inexcusable.

 

But right now much of the party is behaving - and I mean this as the gravest of insults - like Trump’s Republican Party. They can absolutely get that politics out of our country.

[Buce]

[Voll Blau]

 

Chris Philp, who has ministerial responsibility for disinformation and fake news, is now defending this Savile nonsense.

 

"You choose your leaders and place your trust, as their lies wash you down and their promises rust..."

[Buce]

 

So, we're giving £88 million to Ukraine to support stable governance and energy independence.

 

Ironic when we have neither.

[reporterpenguin]

The other attempt he made to shift the spotlight was bizarre. Not as bad as that despicable accusation about Saville, but very odd. 
 

When asked about an excessive culture of drink and drugs, he suggested that “the opposition front bench” should know about excessive drug taking. 

 

Unless there’s a story I’ve missed?

[Spiritwalker]

2 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

The other attempt he made to shift the spotlight was bizarre. Not as bad as that despicable accusation about Saville, but very odd. 
 

When asked about an excessive culture of drink and drugs, he suggested that “the opposition front bench” should know about excessive drug taking. 

 

Unless there’s a story I’ve missed?

I was surprised nobody asked him to elaborate.

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

The other attempt he made to shift the spotlight was bizarre. Not as bad as that despicable accusation about Saville, but very odd. 
 

When asked about an excessive culture of drink and drugs, he suggested that “the opposition front bench” should know about excessive drug taking. 

 

Unless there’s a story I’ve missed?

 

1 minute ago, Spiritwalker said:

I was surprised nobody asked him to elaborate.

 

I find it interesting that he used the adjective excessive.

 

Is there a level of drug taking that is acceptable to him?

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So, we're giving £88 million to Ukraine to support stable governance and energy independence.

 

Ironic when we have neither.

You seem to be suggesting £88 million has the capacity to solve either.

[RoboFox]

8 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

Chris Philp, who has ministerial responsibility for disinformation and fake news, is now defending this Savile nonsense.

 

"You choose your leaders and place your trust, as their lies wash you down and their promises rust..."

Astonishing, given his position.

 

Another disgustingly pathetic sycophant. He probably knows - like most of the current front bench - that they'd be absolutely nowhere near frontline politics if it wasn't for his loyalty to the PM. Johnson has surrounded himself with easily manipulated, utterly useless yes-men for a reason. 

 

A pretty risky stance to take given how precarious everything is. Hope he isn't afraid to get burned when the whole regime inevitably gets razed to the fvcking ground. 

[ealingfox]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

Trump called Johnson "Britain Trump", didn't he?

In some ways, there's no direct comparison, as I think Johnson lacks Trump's attraction to Far Right / racist thinking.

 

 

Johnson worked with Steve Bannon as a strategist and was endorsed by both Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins ahead of the last election so I think you're being a bit generous there.

Edited 1 February 2022 by ealingfox

[Spiritwalker]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

Trump called Johnson "Britain Trump", didn't he?

In some ways, there's no direct comparison, as I think Johnson lacks Trump's attraction to Far Right / racist thinking.

But there are major similarities, too: Massive narcissism, contempt for democracy, contempt for the truth, cynical opportunism.....and representatives in Parliament/Congress mostly not prepared to reject a man manifestly unfit for senior office.

I think Trump has provided Boris with a blueprint of how to hold on to power while  surrounded by controversy and serious

allegations. Deny everything, accuse your accusers, brazenly lie and keep lying, and surround yourself people who are

either blindly loyal or have the same vested interests.

How many of the investigations into Trump ever came to anything? Trump only left office when he was voted out by the

electorate, maybe that’s the only way Boris will go.

 

[Legend_in_blue]

I am contemplating writing to the local MP, Costa, to gauge his thoughts and reaction to all of this but I'm not entirely sure it is worth the time or effort quite frankly.  At least Bridgen is doing something.  Costa just comes across as a yes man.

[Electric Yetis]

Just now, Legend_in_blue said:

I am contemplating writing to the local MP, Costa, to gauge his thoughts and reaction to all of this but I'm not entirely sure it is worth the time or effort quite frankly.  At least Bridgen is doing something.  Costa just comes across as a yes man.

I wrote to Costa during the Cummings fiasco.

 

Basically told me to not contact him about it again and that Cummings has Boris' full support and they were all behind him.

 

Have contacted him again recently asking if he wants to stand by that statement. No response as yet.

[Alf Bentley]

47 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Johnson employed Steve Bannon as a strategist and was endorsed by both Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins ahead of the last election so I think you're being a bit generous there.

 

I don't remember Johnson employing Bannon as a strategist. I just Googled and got a lot of hits for Bannon claiming to have been in informal contact with Johnson, offering him advice, but nothing much more..... 

Johnson has used offensive, cynical shits like Crosby and, of course, Cummings as strategists, but has Bannon had any similar formal or confirmed role? 

 

Endorsements by Yaxley-Lennon & Hopkins say something bad about Johnson, but I'm not sure anyone can be "convicted" on the basis of who endorses them.

I remember canvassing for Labour in the 1983 election and a bloke saying I could rely on his vote - he normally voted National Front, but approved of Labour's policy of leaving the EEC. 

 

That said, I may have been over-generous, remembering some of Johnson's comments about "piccaninnies", burka "letter boxes" etc.

 

I suppose the distinction I'd draw is that racism and undermining democracy are fundamental cornerstones of Trump's beliefs in a way that they're not for Johnson.

Johnson has no qualms about making racist comments to win laughs or approval. Likewise, he's happy to undermine democracy if his personal interests so require, but isn't actively seeking that.

 

I'm not sure that he even has any deeply-held political beliefs beyond self-promotion at any cost - and perhaps an ill-defined belief in "freedom", based on his personal desire to be free to do or have whatever he wants with no regard for anyone else.

He'd do or say anything to promote his own interests with no moral misgivings. But he'd be equally happy to throw a white granny off a cliff and deny it, or throw Yaxley-Lennon's granny off a cliff and deny it.

[fuchsntf]

24 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

I think Trump has provided Boris with a blueprint of how to hold on to power while  surrounded by controversy and serious

allegations. Deny everything, accuse your accusers, brazenly lie and keep lying, and surround yourself people who are

either blindly loyal or have the same vested interests.

How many of the investigations into Trump ever came to anything? Trump only left office when he was voted out by the

electorate, maybe that’s the only way Boris will go.

 

Shows how soft the electorate ,of  the 2 so called powerhouses of the west have become,over the last 20-40yrs..

Rip into their Football clubs managers,Shout abuse,& make placards...But allow their politicians who have lost their right to have that honourable position,to carry on with Del-boy tactics, Not even have to struggle out of all the pathetic corners those politicians/leaders have pushed themselves into.

Which effects Joe publics lives hell of a lot more than any of their pasttimes will ever do..

[ealingfox]

25 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I don't remember Johnson employing Bannon as a strategist. I just Googled and got a lot of hits for Bannon claiming to have been in informal contact with Johnson, offering him advice, but nothing much more..... 

Johnson has used offensive, cynical shits like Crosby and, of course, Cummings as strategists, but has Bannon had any similar formal or confirmed role? 

 

Endorsements by Yaxley-Lennon & Hopkins say something bad about Johnson, but I'm not sure anyone can be "convicted" on the basis of who endorses them.

I remember canvassing for Labour in the 1983 election and a bloke saying I could rely on his vote - he normally voted National Front, but approved of Labour's policy of leaving the EEC. 

 

That said, I may have been over-generous, remembering some of Johnson's comments about "piccaninnies", burka "letter boxes" etc.

 

I suppose the distinction I'd draw is that racism and undermining democracy are fundamental cornerstones of Trump's beliefs in a way that they're not for Johnson.

Johnson has no qualms about making racist comments to win laughs or approval. Likewise, he's happy to undermine democracy if his personal interests so require, but isn't actively seeking that.

 

I'm not sure that he even has any deeply-held political beliefs beyond self-promotion at any cost - and perhaps an ill-defined belief in "freedom", based on his personal desire to be free to do or have whatever he wants with no regard for anyone else.

He'd do or say anything to promote his own interests with no moral misgivings. But he'd be equally happy to throw a white granny off a cliff and deny it, or throw Yaxley-Lennon's granny off a cliff and deny it.

 

I will gladly reduce employed to worked with, because you're right there was no confirmation of any formal employment. But seems pretty clear that they were in contact and Johnson's actions at the time were.

 

Given we know how much a denial from Johnson is worth and they couldn't even deny this matter consistently, I'm going to go ahead and assume Bannon isn't just making it all up for no reason.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/68896b0a-959f-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd229

 

Well I agree that endorsements don't necessarily mean he is attracted to the views of the endorsers, at least not as much as it means the endorsers are attracted to him. But as you say with Johnson's ridiculous rap sheet I'm not prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. Although perhaps I'm being as ungenerous as you are generous.

[Wymsey]

Boris must be up there as one of the most controversial Prime Ministers that the country has ever had, and that's coming from a usual Conversative supporter.