The Ashes 21/22

[RowlattsFox]

10 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Is it poor? Marcus Labuschagne is the worlds best test batter and he’s played for Glamorgan since 2019 (largely second division as well).
 

Let alone for his runs, I don’t think there’s a better guy at the format for reading the bowling. The CC has played its part in making him go from decent to world class

It can contribute I guess, especially for an international cricketer learning English conditions, but good players will always have played some sort of county cricket. Doesn't mean it's county cricket that made them good. 

[Tommy Fresh]

27 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

It can contribute I guess, especially for an international cricketer learning English conditions, but good players will always have played some sort of county cricket. Doesn't mean it's county cricket that made them good. 

County cricket definitely has it's flaws, but I think the bigger issue is coming from us not utilising the pool of players playing it better. An old example and the team was better back then but Hildreth should have played a handful of tests for England at the very least

[Duquesne Whistle]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

Don't worry lads, at least you've got The 100.

It's ok, we still have Test cricket too. Regardless of how bad you get, the test circuit rolls on to the next series.

I mean, it's not like the football World cup where teams will have a definite date of dispatch from the tournament (like the qualifying play offs etc)...

[CrawlingFox]

I think the main batting issue we have isn't producing players or even identifying them (though these are still issues). We are utterly incapable of getting batsmen to make the step up from county to test level and then most importantly to stay there.

 

Realistically Sibley and Burns are by some distance the best openers in county cricket and both have scored enough runs at test level to show they're not mugs. There just aren't other players consistently scoring 1000 odd runs or near and averaging 40+. Libby, Yates or Haines look to be improving but are some way off Burns consistent work over the last five years for Surrey at the moment.

 

However both Burns and Sibley after reasonable early success have also shown little sign of adaptation as sides work out their weaknesses and are able to expose them. There is a long list of other discarded players you can apply this too as well.

 

England's batting coaching should be addressing this. There is no end of interference in fast bowler development (consistently breaking them too - Finn, Wood, Archer, Stone etc...). Why has Graham Thorpe not worked with Sibley to develop the off side shots he needs to add to his game, why has he not worked with Burns to make his technique more consistent early on so he's less fallible. Is it poor coaching or lack of will?

 

Perhaps there is a rough gem in the County Champ averaging 35 who does actually have the game to succeed at test level away from Stevens and Rushworth but unless we can magic him up we need to work better with what we have.

 

It's also rather damning of county cricket that nobody bothers to work out and expose weaknesses at that level allowing talented players to thrive without needing to work on their game further, but why bother - there are too many teams to make it worthwhile so just produce a green seaming pitch and let your dibbly dobblers go to work and focus on white ball where the money is. We could certainly do more to raise the standard and looking at the pitches and schedule would be a start.

[Super_horns]

Didn’t even make it till the lunch break then.

 

World record number of ducks etc.

 

Yet it seems the batting kind of gets away with it .

[Tommy Fresh]

4 minutes ago, CrawlingFox said:

I think the main batting issue we have isn't producing players or even identifying them (though these are still issues). We are utterly incapable of getting batsmen to make the step up from county to test level and then most importantly to stay there.

 

Realistically Sibley and Burns are by some distance the best openers in county cricket and both have scored enough runs at test level to show they're not mugs. There just aren't other players consistently scoring 1000 odd runs or near and averaging 40+. Libby, Yates or Haines look to be improving but are some way off Burns consistent work over the last five years for Surrey at the moment.

 

However both Burns and Sibley after reasonable early success have also shown little sign of adaptation as sides work out their weaknesses and are able to expose them. There is a long list of other discarded players you can apply this too as well.

 

England's batting coaching should be addressing this. There is no end of interference in fast bowler development (consistently breaking them too - Finn, Wood, Archer, Stone etc...). Why has Graham Thorpe not worked with Sibley to develop the off side shots he needs to add to his game, why has he not worked with Burns to make his technique more consistent early on so he's less fallible. Is it poor coaching or lack of will?

 

Perhaps there is a rough gem in the County Champ averaging 35 who does actually have the game to succeed at test level away from Stevens and Rushworth but unless we can magic him up we need to work better with what we have.

 

It's also rather damning of county cricket that nobody bothers to work out and expose weaknesses at that level allowing talented players to thrive without needing to work on their game further, but why bother - there are too many teams to make it worthwhile so just produce a green seaming pitch and let your dibbly dobblers go to work and focus on white ball where the money is. We could certainly do more to raise the standard and looking at the pitches and schedule would be a start.

Would you look at recalling Robson? and have one of the less experienced lads partnering him? Bohannon and Yates getting on the Lions tour was at least one positive as it means they're both at least well thought of and are on their radar

Edited 28 December 2021 by Tommy Fresh

[Kinowe Soorie]

Joke performance. Heads should role for this embarrassment.

[Corky]

England play like the ECB treats the team- half-arsed, unprepared, more bothered about other things.

 

The County Championship will be to blame as always because it's the easiest thing to kick. Ignoring the fact they are barely preparing to face New Zealand, playing in gimmicky knockabouts a week before hosting India.

 

Nobody is shocked by this- we've called it all year.

[Manini]

People are acting like we didn’t get bowled out for 67….at home in the last Ashes (thankfully Ben Stokes existed that week).
 

Been a long time coming, hopefully it forces the ECB to act, that would be the only positive to come out of this, but I won’t hold my breath. 
 

But hey at least we finally got franchised teams sponsored by crisps and light snacks. 
 

Embarrassment. 

[CrawlingFox]

5 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Would you look at recalling Robson? and have one of the less experienced lads partnering him? Bohannon and Yates getting on the Lions tour was at least one positive as it means they're both at least well thought of and are on their radar

I don't believe there are currently better options than Burns and Sibley so I'd be working with them to adjust for the weaknesses that have been exposed. Hameed additionally will be invaluable in the subcontinent given he's stronger against spin (averages 40+ v spin compared to 28 or something v pace) but I'd not pick him when fast bowling is going to dominate, though equally he needs the coaching to develop against it as he's talented.

 

Beyond that I'd look at Libby, Yates and Haines as future options. Bohannon too just further down. They should be playing regular Lions cricket especially away from home with the same level of coaching looking to iron out any flaws in their game that will be exposed at test level before they get there.

 

Robson is a good player but a prime example of someone discarded early rather than worked with to improve. He's probably made that improvement now but I'd not be risking a top 3 with two old boys in him and Malan without a bloody good plan to replace them.

[winteriscoming]

Shows what a poor side we are. This Australian side is distinctly average but is still better in every department than us. Can’t believe silverwood came out and said there was positives to take from the match. 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Shows what a poor side we are. This Australian side is distinctly average but is still better in every department than us. Can’t believe silverwood came out and said there was positives to take from the match. 

He likes his job …….. too many ex pros in important positions. English cricket has stunk of ‘jobs for the boys’ for way too long.  However,  cricket is way down the list of what most kids want to do these days. Can’t say it’s a surprise. 
 

I knew we would lose the series pretty heavily - but so far, this is another level! 

[Tommy Fresh]

15 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Shows what a poor side we are. This Australian side is distinctly average but is still better in every department than us. Can’t believe silverwood came out and said there was positives to take from the match. 

They aren't an average side really, they aren't amazing but average is downplaying how good they are. They aren't so good that we show no sign of resistance though

[Tommy Fresh]

37 minutes ago, CrawlingFox said:

I don't believe there are currently better options than Burns and Sibley so I'd be working with them to adjust for the weaknesses that have been exposed. Hameed additionally will be invaluable in the subcontinent given he's stronger against spin (averages 40+ v spin compared to 28 or something v pace) but I'd not pick him when fast bowling is going to dominate, though equally he needs the coaching to develop against it as he's talented.

 

Beyond that I'd look at Libby, Yates and Haines as future options. Bohannon too just further down. They should be playing regular Lions cricket especially away from home with the same level of coaching looking to iron out any flaws in their game that will be exposed at test level before they get there.

 

Robson is a good player but a prime example of someone discarded early rather than worked with to improve. He's probably made that improvement now but I'd not be risking a top 3 with two old boys in him and Malan without a bloody good plan to replace them.

My issue is probably more those inital call ups or recalls to the side, for example Crawley has never warranted being in contention for a test spot. 

 

I can understand your point about Hameed, he proved when he first burst on the scene he has the ability and temprement to be a good batsman in the longer format. I perhaps wouldn't have recalled him so soon though and took him with the Lions on this tour. 

 

Agree it's hard to ignore Burns solely because of how he performs at County level, the runs he's amassed at that level should translate in to some better performances more often at test level, which I guess is also applicable to Sibley and Pope. 

 

I'd go with Bohannon over Malan moving forward just to start some kind of future planning. Regarding Robson I'd of been keen to take him on this tour even as just a one off series if need be as one last chance (unless he came out with an outrageous average), think he'd cope with the whole magnitude of the series better and then start blooding some of the younger options moving forward. 

 

Not going to mention Foakes as it's obvious to everyone he should be playing over Buttler.

 

Thoughts on Livingstone in test cricket? Pretty sure the ECB have said he is behind a fair number of people before being considered. But this is the kind of mentality that will just push him to play more white ball cricket rather than developing his red ball game further.

Edited 28 December 2021 by Tommy Fresh

[winteriscoming]

41 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

They aren't an average side really, they aren't amazing but average is downplaying how good they are. They aren't so good that we show no sign of resistance though

So average then. 😂 

 

[SexyGammonFox]

1 hour ago, Manini said:

People are acting like we didn’t get bowled out for 67….at home in the last Ashes (thankfully Ben Stokes existed that week).
 

Been a long time coming, hopefully it forces the ECB to act, that would be the only positive to come out of this, but I won’t hold my breath. 
 

But hey at least we finally got franchised teams sponsored by crisps and light snacks. 
 

Embarrassment. 

I've been thinking about that game and although it was magnificent at the time I think it's hurt us in the longer term. If we had lost that I'm certain Root was gone as captain and we would have had to start the rebuild at that point. All it achieved (other than the brilliant memories) was to paper over the cracks that frankly have been here for a few years now.

[Tommy Fresh]

20 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

So average then. 😂 

 

Not really, they're a good team not to the level of some of their previous amazing sides but still a very good test side. But we should still be putting in a better performance against them

 

Fair play if you think a side with two top four batsman averaging over 60 are average. That's before you look at the averages of their bowling attack

Edited 28 December 2021 by Tommy Fresh

[RowlattsFox]

Standard of batting in test cricket currently  see India v South Africa for another example 

[SexyGammonFox]

Extras are third top scorer for England this calendar year after root and burns.

 

I kid you not.

[Izzy]

The crazy thing is, the next home Ashes series will probably be a sell out as usual.

 

We're a glutton for punishment.

[winteriscoming]

22 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Not really, they're a good team not to the level of some of their previous amazing sides but still a very good test side. But we should still be putting in a better performance against them

 

Fair play if you think a side with two top four batsman averaging over 60 are average. That's before you look at the averages of their bowling attack

I agree but they did lose a test series at home to India B side in January. Just wish we showed more fight when the going gets tough. 

[theessexfox]

Boland seems like a nice humble guy, pleased for him 

[Blueman1967]

Last test was embarrassing, you could see this coming last summer, major shake up of the batting need.

[Duquesne Whistle]

42 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

Boland seems like a nice humble guy, pleased for him 

I didn't see the interviews, but that doesn't surprise me.

I have to say, I think the Aussies in general seem a pretty decent bunch. Obviously Warner, Lyon and Smith have previous (I don't mean the sandpaper thing) and like to rub it in, but those three have been reasonably quiet, despite handing out 3 good hidings. These England players won't be feeling great, but they're lucky they're touring in this era, they would have received non stop opprobrium night and day in previous eras. 

Some of the others in the squad seem decent blokes. Labuschagne, Cummins, Hazlewood, good cricketers, decent blokes, seemingly. I'm sure many of the others are too.

 

There's no doubt the Australians have toned things down and a huge amount of praise for that goes to Tim Paine. I can't help but feel a little sorry for him. I imagine it's every Aussie cricketers dream to pummel England and he's been denied that for non cricketing reasons (on the surface). I still think his phone messages were used because they thought he weakened the team, but didn't want to drop their captain. If that is the case, it's a shame he's been used as collateral damage. If not, then it's still a shame for the bloke to miss out regardless.

 

 

3 hours ago, Izzy said:

The crazy thing is, the next home Ashes series will probably be a sell out as usual.

 

We're a glutton for punishment.

It's a little different at home because we're usually competitive (these days at least). It's nearly 20 years since they won an Ashes series here.

That said, people flocked in when the great Aussie side were hammering at home us too. Cricket does strike me as strange in this regard. Whilst everyone likes their team to win, it seems less important in cricket somehow. Enjoying a quiet drink in the summer sunshine whilst watching a competitive match has very few equals, even when the result doesn't go your way.

Anyway, if winning was that important to English cricket fans, they would have had no fans left by the end of the nineties. 

[Voll Blau]

2 hours ago, theessexfox said:

Boland seems like a nice humble guy, pleased for him 

Living the dream, whatever the Aussie equivalent of "real Roy of the Rivers stuff" is. Shane of the Shitheads?