Brief analysis of our recruitment (2016-21)

[abdul_fox]

There has been talk from our fans about a decline in our ability to recruit effectively since Rodgers has come in but is this accurate ? 

I would argue that since the summer of 2016 we have had a mixed bag in terms of success in the market but on the whole its been positive. The 2018/19 was an example of how good our recruitment can be as Soyuncu,Maddison,Perreira,Evans, and Tielemans in the January window were all excellent signings, but since the departure of Walsh, I would argue that windows like 2018/19 have been the exception rather than the rule. Lets analyse how many successful signings we've made since winning the title in 2016.

 

 successful signings 2016/17

Ndidi 

 

 successful signings 2017/18 

 

Maguire

Iheanacho 

 

 successful signings 2018/19

 

Soyuncu

Pereirra 

Evans

Maddison

Tielemans

 

 successful signings 2019/20

 

Justin

(Tielemans on a permanent)

 

successful signings 2020/21

 

fofana 

castagne

 

 

 

 

Appreciate that what constitutes a successful signing is subjective, but by looking at this it becomes obvious that since Rodgers came in, we've reverted to our usual success rate of one or usually two players that would prove to be a success, so I think it would be unfair to solely blame Rodgers, and whoever would have come in after we sacked Puel was always going to have a decline in terms of the success rate of signings. 

 

P.S

Didn't include the summer signings of 2021/22 as the jury is still out on Soumare, but Lookman and Daka in particular are looking good !

 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

Just now, abdul_fox said:

There has been talk from our fans about a decline in our ability to recruit effectively since Rodgers has come in but is this accurate ? 

I would argue that since the summer of 2016 we have had a mixed bag in terms of success in the market but on the whole its been positive. The 2018/19 was an example of how good our recruitment can be as Soyuncu,Maddison,Perreira,Evans, and Tielemans in the January window were all excellent signings, but since the departure of Walsh, I would argue that windows like 2018/19 have been the exception rather than the rule. Lets analyse how many successful signings we've made since winning the title in 2016.

 

 successful signings 2016/17

Ndidi 

 

 successful signings 2017/18 

 

Maguire

Iheanacho 

 

 successful signings 2018/19

 

Soyuncu

Pereirra 

Evans

Maddison

Tielemans

 

 successful signings 2019/20

 

Justin

(Tielemans on a permanent)

 

successful signings 2020/21

 

fofana 

castagne

 

 

 

 

Appreciate that what constitutes a successful signing is subjective, but by looking at this it becomes obvious that since Rodgers came in, we've reverted to our usual success rate of one or usually two players that would prove to be a success, so I think it would be unfair to solely blame Rodgers, and whoever would have come in after we sacked Puel was always going to have a decline in terms of the success rate of signings. 

 

P.S

Didn't include the summer signings of 2021/22 as the jury is still out on Soumare, but Lookman and Daka in particular are looking good !

 

 

 

Castagne is not a successful signing yet

[abdul_fox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Castagne is not a successful signing yet

Fair point,

I just hope we have some stability in the  head of recruitment position, Walsh to come back maybe ?

[coolhandfox]

15 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Castagne is not a successful signing yet

I don't think its that black and white.

 

He's been a decent PL player, not a world beater but decent.

[Bryn]

Some random musings on this below.

 

I think it's hard not to be skewed by the excellence of our record during Pearson's tenure (up to and including the likes of Okazaki, Kante and Fuchs who really were Pearson/Walsh signings).

 

I'm just having a scan of our record since he left. There's some remarkable signings as you'd expect given we continue to punch well above our historic weight; your Ndidis, Maddisons, Tielemans, Justins. Quite a lot of players who were really a bit of a waste of time but weren't of tremendous consequence; Kapustka, Zieler, Inler, Benalouane, Diabate, these types of players that either weren't that expensive or did a bit of a job but ultimately weren't quite good enough and moved on for a bit of a loss. And unfortunately there's some absolute clangers; bad, expensive players.

These would include Slimani, Musa, probably Mendy (Ranieri); Adrien Silva, perhaps Iborra (Puel). You might have said Iheanacho and still might but I think given the going rate for a striker I'd call his signing at least satisfactory if not quite what people expected.

 

For Rodgers, you're looking at Perez (£30m), Benkovic (£13m), Praet (£17m, loan fee of around £1m received so far), definitely Vestergaard (£16m) and perhaps Soumare (£18m) though Soumare perhaps not quite bad enough to completely write off at this stage. However there are some inspired signings - Daka looks good, Fofana,  Tielemans of course though really that's Puel, Justin. I would say though that the complete inability to identify a capable right sided attacker is concerning.

 

Another way to look at it is to look at how many of our current best XI are Rodgers signings.

 

Schmeichel (Eriksson)

 

Pereira (Puel) Fofana (Rodgers) Evans (Puel) Justin (Rodgers)

 

Tielemans (Puel) Ndidi (Ranieri)

 

Lookman (Rodgers) Maddison (Puel) Barnes (N/A though recalled and promoted by Puel)

 

Vardy (Pearson)

 

Close runners - Castagne (Rodgers), Soyuncu (Puel), Thomas and Dewsbury-Hall (N/A though promoted by Rodgers), Daka (Rodgers)

 

Given that he's been here three years you could argue that it's surprising how few positions he has been able to improve upon, although you could equally argue that's reflective of the fact that he has successfully coached good signings made by his predecessors into better players.

Not sure what my point is here. Probably that his transfer record is average, he's probably made about as many shit (financially and in terms of performance) signings as his predecessors given his slightly longer reign, and that he's simply in the shadows of the remarkable Pearson/Walsh era.

[HybridFox]

Nah Iborra was worth it for the Saffron Lane song alone

[FoxyLeon]

The longer Rodgers has been here, the more trust he has been given in terms or recruitment in both playing staff and medical staff....

And we've declined massively in those areas.

[Suzie the Fox]

Benkovic was already here when BR came in.  

[Bryn]

4 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

Benkovic was already here when BR came in.  

 

Ah yeah course he was came in with Soyuncu didn't he, I'm getting muddled cause of him playing for Celtic.

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

That summer 2016 recruitment was worth a book...Mendy is the best from that class. If I had a gumption, I would add up their total appearances. Less than 100, certainly.

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

1 hour ago, abdul_fox said:

Fair point,

I just hope we have some stability in the  head of recruitment position, Walsh to come back maybe ?

Call me a Walsh sceptic. He is a self aggrandizing self promoter. Every good signing was him, every bad signing was over his objection, he spotted all the gems that should have been signed .. Still, the club didn't falter after he left, and he couldn't replicate Leicester's success. I just don't buy it.

[Out Foxed]

2 hours ago, TK95 said:

Nah Iborra was worth it for the Saffron Lane song alone

and the fact he's an all around great guy who has consistently shown us love since he left/ 

[Sunbury Fox]

9 hours ago, TK95 said:

Nah Iborra was worth it for the Saffron Lane song alone

Iborra was a decent player for us. Didn't cost too much and wasn't amazing but he definitely made a contribution. 

Edited 26 January 2022 by Sunbury Fox

[AKCJ]

11 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Castagne is not a successful signing yet

How on Earth has he not been a successful signing?

 

£15m and he's covered brilliantly for two big injuries in his time here, he was a big reason for us finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup last season. He's provided very good cover for 3 defensive positions. Not sure what more you'd want for that sort of money?

[Stadt]

Why on Earth did we appoint Congerton? What sort of serious club would appoint a head of recruitment because yes’s a mate of the manager.

 

Recruitment is the most important factor in long term success of a football club and we’ve made a hash of it recently bar one or two signings.

[Scanchez]

11 hours ago, Bryn said:

Some random musings on this below.

 

I think it's hard not to be skewed by the excellence of our record during Pearson's tenure (up to and including the likes of Okazaki, Kante and Fuchs who really were Pearson/Walsh signings).

 

I'm just having a scan of our record since he left. There's some remarkable signings as you'd expect given we continue to punch well above our historic weight; your Ndidis, Maddisons, Tielemans, Justins. Quite a lot of players who were really a bit of a waste of time but weren't of tremendous consequence; Kapustka, Zieler, Inler, Benalouane, Diabate, these types of players that either weren't that expensive or did a bit of a job but ultimately weren't quite good enough and moved on for a bit of a loss. And unfortunately there's some absolute clangers; bad, expensive players.

These would include Slimani, Musa, probably Mendy (Ranieri); Adrien Silva, perhaps Iborra (Puel). You might have said Iheanacho and still might but I think given the going rate for a striker I'd call his signing at least satisfactory if not quite what people expected.

 

For Rodgers, you're looking at Perez (£30m), Benkovic (£13m), Praet (£17m, loan fee of around £1m received so far), definitely Vestergaard (£16m) and perhaps Soumare (£18m) though Soumare perhaps not quite bad enough to completely write off at this stage. However there are some inspired signings - Daka looks good, Fofana,  Tielemans of course though really that's Puel, Justin. I would say though that the complete inability to identify a capable right sided attacker is concerning.

 

Another way to look at it is to look at how many of our current best XI are Rodgers signings.

 

 

Schmeichel (Eriksson)

 

Pereira (Puel) Fofana (Rodgers) Evans (Puel) Justin (Rodgers)

 

Tielemans (Puel) Ndidi (Ranieri)

 

Lookman (Rodgers) Maddison (Puel) Barnes (N/A though recalled and promoted by Puel)

 

Vardy (Pearson)

 

 

Close runners - Castagne (Rodgers), Soyuncu (Puel), Thomas and Dewsbury-Hall (N/A though promoted by Rodgers), Daka (Rodgers)

 

Given that he's been here three years you could argue that it's surprising how few positions he has been able to improve upon, although you could equally argue that's reflective of the fact that he has successfully coached good signings made by his predecessors into better players.

Not sure what my point is here. Probably that his transfer record is average, he's probably made about as many shit (financially and in terms of performance) signings as his predecessors given his slightly longer reign, and that he's simply in the shadows of the remarkable Pearson/Walsh era.

Quite surprising to see how many Puel players are still very important to us. Actually more than Rodgers has bought in if you take it from that starting 11.

For all the stick Puel gets he actually helped bring in some decent players.

ONLY ONE PEARSON PLAYER IN THERE SO MAYBE HE WASN'T THAT GOOD AFTER ALL.

Please understand that's a joke and don't go all Weirdy-Pearson on me.

[ALC Fox]

11 hours ago, Bryn said:

You might have said Iheanacho and still might but I think given the going rate for a striker I'd call his signing at least satisfactory if not quite what people expected.

I think Iheanacho is a fabulous player. It's just that he's not the kind of player you want leading the line on his own and Maddison is (rightly) ahead of him in a creative midfield role.

 

I think he's more of a support striker or hybrid creative striker/attacking midfielder, a bit like Harry Kane wants to be. He's got a hell of a finish and gets into some great positions but he's also capable of linking the play and being a creative threat.

 

I just don't think we know quite how to best use his talents, or we're just not set up to suit him as well as our other forward players.

[daddylonglegs]

12 hours ago, Bryn said:

Some random musings on this below.

 

I think it's hard not to be skewed by the excellence of our record during Pearson's tenure (up to and including the likes of Okazaki, Kante and Fuchs who really were Pearson/Walsh signings).

 

I'm just having a scan of our record since he left. There's some remarkable signings as you'd expect given we continue to punch well above our historic weight; your Ndidis, Maddisons, Tielemans, Justins. Quite a lot of players who were really a bit of a waste of time but weren't of tremendous consequence; Kapustka, Zieler, Inler, Benalouane, Diabate, these types of players that either weren't that expensive or did a bit of a job but ultimately weren't quite good enough and moved on for a bit of a loss. And unfortunately there's some absolute clangers; bad, expensive players.

These would include Slimani, Musa, probably Mendy (Ranieri); Adrien Silva, perhaps Iborra (Puel). You might have said Iheanacho and still might but I think given the going rate for a striker I'd call his signing at least satisfactory if not quite what people expected.

 

For Rodgers, you're looking at Perez (£30m), Benkovic (£13m), Praet (£17m, loan fee of around £1m received so far), definitely Vestergaard (£16m) and perhaps Soumare (£18m) though Soumare perhaps not quite bad enough to completely write off at this stage. However there are some inspired signings - Daka looks good, Fofana,  Tielemans of course though really that's Puel, Justin. I would say though that the complete inability to identify a capable right sided attacker is concerning.

 

Another way to look at it is to look at how many of our current best XI are Rodgers signings.

 

 

Schmeichel (Eriksson)

 

Pereira (Puel) Fofana (Rodgers) Evans (Puel) Justin (Rodgers)

 

Tielemans (Puel) Ndidi (Ranieri)

 

Lookman (Rodgers) Maddison (Puel) Barnes (N/A though recalled and promoted by Puel)

 

Vardy (Pearson)

 

 

Close runners - Castagne (Rodgers), Soyuncu (Puel), Thomas and Dewsbury-Hall (N/A though promoted by Rodgers), Daka (Rodgers)

 

Given that he's been here three years you could argue that it's surprising how few positions he has been able to improve upon, although you could equally argue that's reflective of the fact that he has successfully coached good signings made by his predecessors into better players.

Not sure what my point is here. Probably that his transfer record is average, he's probably made about as many shit (financially and in terms of performance) signings as his predecessors given his slightly longer reign, and that he's simply in the shadows of the remarkable Pearson/Walsh era.

A best 11 that doesn't include Kelechi (not even as a close runner) still baffles me. 

Bloke's started 4 games this season and contributed to 6 goals. 

Last season he single handedly saved us from missing out on Europe all together, contributing 13 goals in 15 starts. 

 

God knows what he's done to Rodgers privately because his treatment of him has stunk. 

Edited 26 January 2022 by daddylonglegs

[daddylonglegs]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

How on Earth has he not been a successful signing?

 

£15m and he's covered brilliantly for two big injuries in his time here, he was a big reason for us finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup last season. He's provided very good cover for 3 defensive positions. Not sure what more you'd want for that sort of money?

People have a really weird thing (Not necessarily the OP) about him being a flop. 

 

He's come in at a time where our best RB was injured, who at the time of his injury was one of the best 3 or 4 RBs in Europe. He's also had competition from Justin, who was in exceptional form before his injury. He's played 3 different positions in about 25 different defensive combinations personnel wise, and has very rarely let us down. 

 

Absolutely a successful signing for me. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

How on Earth has he not been a successful signing?

 

£15m and he's covered brilliantly for two big injuries in his time here, he was a big reason for us finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup last season. He's provided very good cover for 3 defensive positions. Not sure what more you'd want for that sort of money?

He cost £24m and he's not yet been a success. He started well for about 6 weeks and then got injured. He was then very stop start until a decent spell in April. This season he's been really really mediocre. No goals, no assists and a few errors leading to goals.

 

He's not by any means been a disaster signing and if he puts his injury problems behind him then I'd hope he can become a success here but to date it's in the balance. He's at the age where what we paid for him we won't get back if he doesn't kick on, his injury issues are annoying as he was a very resilient player prior to coming here and that must be annoying for him and the club. Plenty of Italian clubs still want him, like Praet and if they pay what we paid for them then I can see them going. 

[Ric Flair]

30 minutes ago, daddylonglegs said:

People have a really weird thing (Not necessarily the OP) about him being a flop. 

 

He's come in at a time where our best RB was injured, who at the time of his injury was one of the best 3 or 4 RBs in Europe. He's also had competition from Justin, who was in exceptional form before his injury. He's played 3 different positions in about 25 different defensive combinations personnel wise, and has very rarely let us down. 

 

Absolutely a successful signing for me. 

You are evidently easily pleased. If Castagne has been a success then so has Ayoze Perez? Perez did pretty well to start with here and then has been very mediocre ever since, Castagne is the same. Looked class the first 2 months, got injured, came back and was struggling to hit the same form. Had a brief improvement in those games vs West Brom, Palace and around the FA Cup run and then ever since then he's been back to being very average. This season he's really been average, made a number of mistakes and going forward has been non existent. No goals and no assists which is unacceptable for a Brendan Rodgers team and the way we play.

[LVFox]

Who was in charge of scouting/signings when Puel was in charge? Got far more right than wrong

 

 

[AKCJ]

1 hour ago, daddylonglegs said:

People have a really weird thing (Not necessarily the OP) about him being a flop. 

 

He's come in at a time where our best RB was injured, who at the time of his injury was one of the best 3 or 4 RBs in Europe. He's also had competition from Justin, who was in exceptional form before his injury. He's played 3 different positions in about 25 different defensive combinations personnel wise, and has very rarely let us down. 

 

Absolutely a successful signing for me. 

Weird innit. Not sure why people are so keen to dislike him.

 

He was bought pretty much only because Ricardo got his horrendous injury and we've pretty much not missed him (although Justin has played a big part in that too.

 

29 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You are evidently easily pleased. If Castagne has been a success then so has Ayoze Perez? Perez did pretty well to start with here and then has been very mediocre ever since, Castagne is the same. Looked class the first 2 months, got injured, came back and was struggling to hit the same form. Had a brief improvement in those games vs West Brom, Palace and around the FA Cup run and then ever since then he's been back to being very average. This season he's really been average, made a number of mistakes and going forward has been non existent. No goals and no assists which is unacceptable for a Brendan Rodgers team and the way we play.

I think it's a case of you being too tough to please.

 

Comparing Castagne to Perez is laughable mate and you know that.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Weird innit. Not sure why people are so keen to dislike him.

 

He was bought pretty much only because Ricardo got his horrendous injury and we've pretty much not missed him (although Justin has played a big part in that too.

 

I think it's a case of you being too tough to please.

 

Comparing Castagne to Perez is laughable mate and you know that.

Perez had the same 1st year as Castagne. Perez has since gone on to be absolute dog shit but that first season he had flashes of brilliance with a couple of periods of form which mirrors what Castagne has done. Castagne I've every faith ought to be a success here but he's been really disappointing this season and his injury issues may well prevent us from getting our moneys worth. As I said, he's far from been a success but he's not been a disaster either. If someone offered £20m for him I'd take it.

[An Sionnach]

Financially since Kanté , we have only just about broken even. If we sell Pirez, Praet, Castagne and Tielemans for less than we paid for them , we are well in the red. I can see why Top is becoming very cautious about the transfer market.