Brief analysis of our recruitment (2016-21)

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Perez had the same 1st year as Castagne. Perez has since gone on to be absolute dog shit but that first season he had flashes of brilliance with a couple of periods of form which mirrors what Castagne has done. Castagne I've every faith ought to be a success here but he's been really disappointing this season and his injury issues may well prevent us from getting our moneys worth. As I said, he's far from been a success but he's not been a disaster either. If someone offered £20m for him I'd take it.

We have had Perez for 2 and a half years now. In that time he's scored or assisted a goal to win us points on 3 occasions (2 assists away at West Ham in 2019/20, 1 goal away at Sheffield United in 20/21 and 2 assists off the bench against Man United in 21/22).

 

He's a winger/second striker. His other goals and assists would have resulted in us still winning games had they been taken away (i.e. 3 goals at Southampton, we'd have won 6-0 without him).

 

Basically his goals/assists have won us 7 points in the 66 Premier League appearances he's made and he cost us £30 million quid.

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, LVocey said:

Who was in charge of scouting/signings when Puel was in charge? Got far more right than wrong

 

 

 

Uhh, still Macia no? Replaced Walsh and left at some point in Rodgers reign I think? 

 

I mean, its really hard to know where to attribute credit with transfers. I know I say this about once a week but it really is a committee process and a scouting network of a lot of "front line" staff who go entirely without credit will do a lot of the grunt work. 

 

What I think we can accept as a fairly universal truth is a combination of Whelan, Rudkin, Walsh and Pearson built something during Pearson’s latest spell here that brought how we do recruitment up to modern, professional standards. 

 

We can safely assume they brought us in to the data age and the club has been slowly amassing a decent team of scouts and analysts that have probably been here in one form or another over the last decade. 

 

Different managers and heads of recruitment have come and gone since then and will have brought directional changes, policy changes with them but it feels like the rough meat and drink of how we do transfer business and who we target hasn't changed drastically, besides a short blip after winning the title where we seemed to panic and not know how to cope with the sudden rise of expectation (signings like Slimani and Silva clearly look like bottle jobs in a desperate bid to sign "World class" that would be willing to come here.)

 

Truthfully, as much as Congerton is an easy target, the reality is he was probably here too short a time to have had a major impact on an established team that - much like civil servants - survive regime changes at the highest level. 

 

It's possible Patson Daka, for example, was all his idea. Its also possible it was Bob Smith the intern data analyst fresh out of Loughborough uni who just bought him on his football manager save. We've no idea, the club don't have complete transparency on how they do their scouting and transfer business for good reasons. 

 

Edited 26 January 2022 by Finnegan

[Ric Flair]

25 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

We have had Perez for 2 and a half years now. In that time he's scored or assisted a goal to win us points on 3 occasions (2 assists away at West Ham in 2019/20, 1 goal away at Sheffield United in 20/21 and 2 assists off the bench against Man United in 21/22).

 

He's a winger/second striker. His other goals and assists would have resulted in us still winning games had they been taken away (i.e. 3 goals at Southampton, we'd have won 6-0 without him).

 

Basically his goals/assists have won us 7 points in the 66 Premier League appearances he's made and he cost us £30 million quid.

You don't need to prove to me how atrocious Perez has been overall for us, I'm one of his biggest critics. The point I'm making is that after his first year it was still very much in the balance about how successful he'd be for us as he'd produced some moments of magic for us, but as you say in games where we won comfortably. Castagne had a decent first season but with injuries and periods of very average play. This year has been very non descript/worse as he's made mistakes at the back where we've been punished and going forward his output is the worst of any of our full backs which isn't good enough and way below what he's capable of.

 

So I repeat, he cannot be measured a successful signing yet. I hope he will be if he stays, but the injuries are a concern, he seems to get whacked a lot and there's regular reports of clubs back in Italy wanting him which is being pushed from somewhere, he may want to move himself. I'd not be that gutted.

[don_danbury]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

You are evidently easily pleased. If Castagne has been a success then so has Ayoze Perez? Perez did pretty well to start with here and then has been very mediocre ever since, Castagne is the same. Looked class the first 2 months, got injured, came back and was struggling to hit the same form. Had a brief improvement in those games vs West Brom, Palace and around the FA Cup run and then ever since then he's been back to being very average. This season he's really been average, made a number of mistakes and going forward has been non existent. No goals and no assists which is unacceptable for a Brendan Rodgers team and the way we play.

Perez had a good game against 10 man Southampton. Castagne has had more than one good game. No way near comparable plus Perez was 30m

[Koke]

Castagne is a success . He cost £20.5m, and he's covered 3 differenct position's in 28 different defensive combinations. He's never been MOTM level player but generally a 7/10. Very competent player overall despite his recent poor form. 

 

Perez had a good first season here in a team that was obliterating oppositions with insane attacking prowess. Even in that season it was clear he was the weakest of our attacking players. Since then he's gone from alright to absolutely ****ing wank. 

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, Koke said:

Castagne is a success . He cost £20.5m, and he's covered 3 differenct position's in 28 different defensive combinations. He's never been MOTM level player but generally a 7/10. Very competent player overall despite his recent poor form. 

 

Perez had a good first season here in a team that was obliterating oppositions with insane attacking prowess. Even in that season it was clear he was the weakest of our attacking players. Since then he's gone from alright to absolutely ****ing wank. 

So as I said, after one season they'd both have been looked favourably as decent signings, Castagne more so than Perez. But another half a season or season on and Perez evidently was looking a waste of money and Castagne is also now got question marks. His injuries have either caused the poor form or not allowed him to regain his rhythm but he's still not been that good and I can't have him down as a being that successful, it takes more than that surely?

[An Sionnach]

He is not world class inspite of the Belgian hype , we didn't pay world class money for him. He is a pretty sound player though and as a club we cannot have a squad of the very best players. Along with Amartey, Choudery, KDH, ,Mendy and Lookman and him we have players of sound PL standard who will not let us down when needed.

[Greg2607]

3 hours ago, Stadt said:

Why on Earth did we appoint Congerton? What sort of serious club would appoint a head of recruitment because yes’s a mate of the manager.

 

Recruitment is the most important factor in long term success of a football club and we’ve made a hash of it recently bar one or two signings.

Hence why I wonder if he is off somewhere new, because Rodgers has an agreement to manage elsewhere and his new club won't let him bring congerton. 

 

It's a bit "tin foil hat" but I can't shake the feeling!

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Greg2607 said:

Hence why I wonder if he is off somewhere new, because Rodgers has an agreement to manage elsewhere and his new club won't let him bring congerton. 

 

It's a bit "tin foil hat" but I can't shake the feeling!

 

That's a huge stretch. 

[AKCJ]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

You don't need to prove to me how atrocious Perez has been overall for us, I'm one of his biggest critics. The point I'm making is that after his first year it was still very much in the balance about how successful he'd be for us as he'd produced some moments of magic for us, but as you say in games where we won comfortably. Castagne had a decent first season but with injuries and periods of very average play. This year has been very non descript/worse as he's made mistakes at the back where we've been punished and going forward his output is the worst of any of our full backs which isn't good enough and way below what he's capable of.

 

So I repeat, he cannot be measured a successful signing yet. I hope he will be if he stays, but the injuries are a concern, he seems to get whacked a lot and there's regular reports of clubs back in Italy wanting him which is being pushed from somewhere, he may want to move himself. I'd not be that gutted.

So why are you trying to compare Castagne with Perez?!

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

So why are you trying to compare Castagne with Perez?!

Because I'm highlighting that a player can go from being perceived to be a success after 1 season to anything but a success. After the 1st season Castagne looked to be a solid acquisition another 8 months on and its in the balance. Perez after a year had had a decent 1st season, 1.5 seasons on and he's a disgrace. 

[FoxyLeon]

17 hours ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

Call me a Walsh sceptic. He is a self aggrandizing self promoter. Every good signing was him, every bad signing was over his objection, he spotted all the gems that should have been signed .. Still, the club didn't falter after he left, and he couldn't replicate Leicester's success. I just don't buy it.

 

Name me one 'World Class' player we have signed, and developed, since Walsh left?

 

Kante was World Class, Mahrez, Vardy and Kasper are a level just below that.

Our 'Best' signing since has been Tielemans, and he's a level below Mahrez/Vardy/Kasper.

 

Recruitment under Walsh was far stronger, he had players that failed, as do every club, but it was far better.

Compare Fuchs with Bertrand....Huth with Vestegaard etc etc.

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, FoxyLeon said:

 

Name me one 'World Class' player we have signed, and developed, since Walsh left?

 

Kante was World Class, Mahrez, Vardy and Kasper are a level just below that.

Our 'Best' signing since has been Tielemans, and he's a level below Mahrez/Vardy/Kasper.

 

Recruitment under Walsh was far stronger, he had players that failed, as do every club, but it was far better.

Compare Fuchs with Bertrand....Huth with Vestegaard etc etc.

Tielemans is up there with Mahrez, Kasper and possibly Vardy. Ricardo was in that bracket too before he got injured, Maddison may well get there too, as will Fofana. Our signings made under Macia's helm were pretty good overall.

 

 

[sylofox]

A message to Top.

 

You and your father trusted Nigel Pearson.

 

He was allowed to put so much in place that ultimately won us the league.

 

Back room and medical staff and player recruitment.

 

 

GET NIGE BACK PLEASE.

 

Give him the dof job and let's go on a run again. Rudkin can sort wages and contracts.

 

Look at our injury record and it's not all covid strain. Most of it is shite training and medical staff.

[themightyfin]

20 hours ago, AKCJ said:

So why are you trying to compare Castagne with Perez?!

Just glad we got Congerton as head of recruitment and not Ric! 

He must be seeing something completely different to us.

Timmy has been a class signing 👏 

[Kevin Russell]

I can see both sides of the argument on Castagne, I think part of the reason we are underwhelmed is because he looked so brilliant when he first arrived and hasn’t reached those heights again. 
 

on balance I think he provides good cover and is versatile, but he isn’t as good as I hoped he’d be. Id file him in the decent but not great signing category. 

[PhillippaT]

47 minutes ago, Kevin Russell said:

I can see both sides of the argument on Castagne, I think part of the reason we are underwhelmed is because he looked so brilliant when he first arrived and hasn’t reached those heights again. 
 

on balance I think he provides good cover and is versatile, but he isn’t as good as I hoped he’d be. Id file him in the decent but not great signing category. 

It didn't help that for a few games he got a nosebleed past the halfway line   As soon as he fixed that, he looked good again...

Edited 27 January 2022 by PhillippaT

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Just glad we got Congerton as head of recruitment and not Ric! 

He must be seeing something completely different to us.

Timmy has been a class signing 👏 

Your measurement of class is evidently a damn sight lower than mine. He's been decent last season but his injuries and very mediocre form this season has put a question mark over him. Not enough is being said of how ordinary he's been this season. No goals, no assists and a few high profile errors leading to goals.

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, Kevin Russell said:

I can see both sides of the argument on Castagne, I think part of the reason we are underwhelmed is because he looked so brilliant when he first arrived and hasn’t reached those heights again. 
 

on balance I think he provides good cover and is versatile, but he isn’t as good as I hoped he’d be. Id file him in the decent but not great signing category. 

Yeah agreed, he looked excellent first month or so and then got injured. Came back and was steady, had another good spell in April and then that horrible injury at the Euros seems to have took something out of him. His attacking output this season has been naff.

[Lesta2014]

Other than Jonny evans, has a signing over the age of 26 been a success since 2016? 
 

I can’t think off the top of my head? The signing you get with potential seems to be doing better for me! 
 

someone may correct me on this? 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

On 26/01/2022 at 10:29, Ric Flair said:

He cost £24m and he's not yet been a success. He started well for about 6 weeks and then got injured. He was then very stop start until a decent spell in April. This season he's been really really mediocre. No goals, no assists and a few errors leading to goals.

 

He's not by any means been a disaster signing and if he puts his injury problems behind him then I'd hope he can become a success here but to date it's in the balance. He's at the age where what we paid for him we won't get back if he doesn't kick on, his injury issues are annoying as he was a very resilient player prior to coming here and that must be annoying for him and the club. Plenty of Italian clubs still want him, like Praet and if they pay what we paid for them then I can see them going. 

Hes been one of our best players when he's played this year and the stats back that up. Really odd take.

[Kevin Russell]

50 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yeah agreed, he looked excellent first month or so and then got injured. Came back and was steady, had another good spell in April and then that horrible injury at the Euros seems to have took something out of him. His attacking output this season has been naff.

I’ve certainly noticed him being less confident and positive in his play this season. Unfortunately, when a side is not playing well, the lack of confidence can be contagious; I suspect that is part of the issue as well as the injury. A real shame, but unlike others (like say Perez) I think Castagne has the core attributes to be an important member of the squad. 

[Ric Flair]

17 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Hes been one of our best players when he's played this year and the stats back that up. Really odd take.

Haha who has, Castagne? No way has he. No goals, no assists, several errors. Very mediocre by his standards this season. I'd not be surprised if the club let him go if there's interest, I sense he's not really settled. Got a kid on the way, Leicester's no place for a kid, ask my two, they'd prefer Milan 😂

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

31 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Haha who has, Castagne? No way has he. No goals, no assists, several errors. Very mediocre by his standards this season. I'd not be surprised if the club let him go if there's interest, I sense he's not really settled. Got a kid on the way, Leicester's no place for a kid, ask my two, they'd prefer Milan 😂

Hes a defender and we concede less goals with him in the team.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

We function as a team much better with Castagne playing and the stats bear that out,