The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 hours ago, Facecloth said:

I thought we might at least get some stability with Sunak, but I can't see Braverman lasting much longer the more that comes out about her.

I think she was stuck in there by the ERG, Sunak agreed to it in order to get a free run at the PM post, knowing that she'll **** up again and he can force her out soon enough.

[FoxesDeb]

It's quite ironic that I was about to come here and post that the illegal immigration issue is not restricted to the UK, and just before I did I checked my FB feed and saw this

 

 

This is about 250 metres from my house, happening as I type, and happens very regularly, in fact in the comments someone says another boat arrived just last night.

 

Unfortunately the traffickers have realised the Guardia on mainland Spain are waiting for them, so they are starting to take the far more treacherous route from Africa to the Canary Islands, which is leading to a greater loss of life.

 

Some people need to be far more empathetic to the reasons a great number of people are choosing to risk their lives like this, and spend less energy worrying about the relative drop in the ocean (sorry) it costs us as individuals with comparative lives of luxury.  

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

It's quite ironic that I was about to come here and post that the illegal immigration issue is not restricted to the UK, and just before I did I checked my FB feed and saw this

 

 

This is about 250 metres from my house, happening as I type, and happens very regularly, in fact in the comments someone says another boat arrived just last night.

 

Unfortunately the traffickers have realised the Guardia on mainland Spain are waiting for them, so they are starting to take the far more treacherous route from Africa to the Canary Islands, which is leading to a greater loss of life.

 

Some people need to be far more empathetic to the reasons a great number of people are choosing to risk their lives like this, and spend less energy worrying about the relative drop in the ocean (sorry) it costs us as individuals with comparative lives of luxury.  

So true, how do you convince the Western World that is does not really need this seasons iPhone?

[Captain...]

7 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

But you accept that 10k known Albanian men - 2% of their adult male population - coming here is going to 99% economic migration?

This something I don't get typical tory voters preach low intervention in the market, deregulation means that market forces and not government intervention will be the main driver behind the economy and innovation and progress. Yet they don't apply that same approach to immigration. The freedom of movement within the EU is surely the greatest deregulation of the European economies. A flexible work force with no barriers to entry is the perfect catalyst for growth. One of the biggest barriers to growth is a stagnant population and an oversubscribed work force.

 

I get why centre right voters would be against the CAP and the fisheries body and other EU institutions. The freedom of movement is a pure free market policy and 10,000 economic immigrants absolutely promotes growth and boosts GDP.

[Captain...]

6 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

But @ozleicester tells me tax flight is not real**

 

** it is, they just mean that as long as you invest the tax revenues correctly into education, you make new millionaires to replace those that leave

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2013/02/17/sorry-new-york-times-tax-flight-of-the-rich-is-not-a-myth/?sh=4758fff3e0be

 

That's completely irrelevant when it comes to energy. Shell are not going to shut up shop in the UK if a windfall tax means they only make £5bn instead of £9bn. If they did, which they really won't, all that would happen is another company would buy out their UK company or the government would. It's not car manufacturing or another industry.

[Daggers]

The idea Shell, a company that asked to pay more tax, is going to leave the uk if they pay more tax on windfall profits is abjectly ludicrous.

[Daggers]

8 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

But you accept that 10k known Albanian men - 2% of their adult male population - coming here is going to 99% economic migration?

Are you an economic migrant or fleeing persecution?

[Dahnsouff]

22 minutes ago, Captain... said:

That's completely irrelevant when it comes to energy. Shell are not going to shut up shop in the UK if a windfall tax means they only make £5bn instead of £9bn. If they did, which they really won't, all that would happen is another company would buy out their UK company or the government would. It's not car manufacturing or another industry.

 

11 minutes ago, Daggers said:

The idea Shell, a company that asked to pay more tax, is going to leave the uk if they pay more tax on windfall profits is abjectly ludicrous.

That was indicative, it need not be so binary. They could choose alternate location for investment for example, and although this environmentally could be pleasing, economical;y perhaps not so much.

[st albans fox]

57 minutes ago, Captain... said:

That's completely irrelevant when it comes to energy. Shell are not going to shut up shop in the UK if a windfall tax means they only make £5bn instead of £9bn. If they did, which they really won't, all that would happen is another company would buy out their UK company or the government would. It's not car manufacturing or another industry.

 

45 minutes ago, Daggers said:

The idea Shell, a company that asked to pay more tax, is going to leave the uk if they pay more tax on windfall profits is abjectly ludicrous.

Missing the point that was made earlier today

 

Global companies have their head office in a country. That’s where they pay their corporate taxes on their global profits.  (Lots of companies are based in Ireland because their rate is only 15%. )
 

I think that global profit figure is nett of deducted national taxes on profits already levied. So if shell are based in the U.K., they will deduct usa (and other national) taxes from their profit before they would pay U.K. tax on the balance. 
 

if that is the case then we would not be double charging them by levying a windfall tax on the final nett profit (as that would mean they weren’t double paying taxes across the globe).  But if Dublin were to indicate to shell that not only will their CT rate be 10% lower in a couple years than in London, but that they would not consider applying any windfall taxes on that nett profit, then I’m pretty sure that shell would seriously consider moving their head office to Dublin. We are talking serious money. 
 

at the moment, I believe that windfall taxes are applied to profits made only in the U.K. I would have thought that is reasonable. (Assuming that there are effective audit trails ) 

Edited 27 October 2022 by st albans fox

[yorkie1999]

Old Liz got an honourable mention in Putins address. 

Edited 27 October 2022 by yorkie1999

[l444ry]

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

 

Missing the point that was made earlier today

 

Global companies have their head office in a country. That’s where they pay their corporate taxes on their global profits.  (Lots of companies are based in Ireland because their rate is only 15%. )
 

I think that global profit figure is nett of deducted national taxes on profits already levied. So if shell are based in the U.K., they will deduct usa (and other national) taxes from their profit before they would pay U.K. tax on the balance. 
 

if that is the case then we would not be double charging them by levying a windfall tax on the final nett profit (as that would mean they weren’t double paying taxes across the globe).  But if Dublin were to indicate to shell that not only will their CT rate be 10% lower in a couple years than in London, but that they would not consider applying any windfall taxes on that nett profit, then I’m pretty sure that shell would seriously consider moving their head office to Dublin. We are talking serious money. 
 

at the moment, I believe that windfall taxes are applied to profits made only in the U.K. I would have thought that is reasonable. (Assuming that there are effective audit trails ) 

 

[st albans fox]

55 minutes ago, Daggers said:

 

Because they are investing all their profits (apparently) in North Sea gas/oil extraction - that’s the out that govt gave to energy producers. Either pay additional tax on the profits or invest them in ‘R & D’.  the argument was made that windfall taxes would mean that companies wouldn’t invest.  You can be cynical about it - infact you’d probably be right to be so. 

[ajthefox]

Nevermind that energy company paying out increased dividends to all it's filthy rich shareholders (that came from our wallets) whilst simultaneously burning our planet to the ground. 

 

What we should really be outraged about is those greedy and selfish Albanian blokes risking their lives for a better life in our country. They're the real bastards of this story. 

 

*Sigh*

Edited 27 October 2022 by ajthefox
Missed a word.

[Captain...]

4 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

 

That was indicative, it need not be so binary. They could choose alternate location for investment for example, and although this environmentally could be pleasing, economical;y perhaps not so much.

They could, but this is a one off tax so it would make no sense to do so when any benefits would not be seen until a long time after the windfall tax is applied. If anything it will encourage reinvestment of profit. Might as well spend it now when it's being taxed at a higher rate.

 

In fact:

 

The UK-headquartered oil company said it had not paid the levy and did not expect to throughout 2022, because its British corporate entity did not make any profits during the quarter, in part, because of heavy spending on drilling more oil in the North Sea.

 

 

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

 

Missing the point that was made earlier today

 

Global companies have their head office in a country. That’s where they pay their corporate taxes on their global profits.  (Lots of companies are based in Ireland because their rate is only 15%. )
 

I think that global profit figure is nett of deducted national taxes on profits already levied. So if shell are based in the U.K., they will deduct usa (and other national) taxes from their profit before they would pay U.K. tax on the balance. 
 

if that is the case then we would not be double charging them by levying a windfall tax on the final nett profit (as that would mean they weren’t double paying taxes across the globe).  But if Dublin were to indicate to shell that not only will their CT rate be 10% lower in a couple years than in London, but that they would not consider applying any windfall taxes on that nett profit, then I’m pretty sure that shell would seriously consider moving their head office to Dublin. We are talking serious money. 
 

at the moment, I believe that windfall taxes are applied to profits made only in the U.K. I would have thought that is reasonable. (Assuming that there are effective audit trails ) 

 

Interestingly Shell recently moved HQ from Amsterdam to London, because of the increase in tax in Amsterdam the difference being this was a permanent increase and not a one off tax. Which has been levied against Shell and there is no sign of them going anywhere, just creatively not paying it.

 

[kingkisnorbo]

Julia Hartley Brewer is one of stupidest people to ever be allowed into the media. Same pool as Wootton and Morgan.
 

Gutter level. 

[Daggers]

9 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Because they are investing all their profits (apparently) in North Sea gas/oil extraction - that’s the out that govt gave to energy producers. Either pay additional tax on the profits or invest them in ‘R & D’.  the argument was made that windfall taxes would mean that companies wouldn’t invest.  You can be cynical about it - infact you’d probably be right to be so. 

<insert ‘sure’ nodding gif here>

[StanSP]

7 hours ago, kingkisnorbo said:

Julia Hartley Brewer is one of stupidest people to ever be allowed into the media. Same pool as Wootton and Morgan.
 

Gutter level. 

The 'NHS is bad at saving lives' was not the gotcha she thought she was getting. 

 

And denying the effects of climate change or that it even exists was idiocy as well. 'its weather' was her quip

 

Lucy Frazer trying to say there's still 40 new hospitals was amusing. 

 

David Lammy didn't do Labour any favours either. When audience members pine for less of the in-fighting between politicians, he came across quite aggressive and just shouty.

[weller54]

38 minutes ago, StanSP said:

The 'NHS is bad at saving lives' was not the gotcha she thought she was getting. 

 

And denying the effects of climate change or that it even exists was idiocy as well. 'its weather' was her quip

 

Lucy Frazer trying to say there's still 40 new hospitals was amusing. 

 

David Lammy didn't do Labour any favours either. When audience members pine for less of the in-fighting between politicians, he came across quite aggressive and just shouty.

It was a poor program all round...the panel were just awful 🤬

[st albans fox]

46 minutes ago, StanSP said:

The 'NHS is bad at saving lives' was not the gotcha she thought she was getting. 

 

And denying the effects of climate change or that it even exists was idiocy as well. 'its weather' was her quip

 

Lucy Frazer trying to say there's still 40 new hospitals was amusing. 

 

David Lammy didn't do Labour any favours either. When audience members pine for less of the in-fighting between politicians, he came across quite aggressive and just shouty.

Lammy and brewer are both ‘talk radio’ hosts - I guess they get used to having to speak to people in a patronising way - they must come across quite a few stupid ones - for brewer it probably makes her think she’s like lots of other people without realising she’s comparing herself with the stoopid ones 

[Fazzer 7]

It’s quite obvious what Brewer implied when she said the NHS is bad at saving lives. If you have cancer or other life threatening disease you are more likely to die here than most other comparable European Countries. That’s not stupid it’s fact. 

[Captain...]

15 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

It’s quite obvious what Brewer implied when she said the NHS is bad at saving lives. If you have cancer or other life threatening disease you are more likely to die here than most other comparable European Countries. That’s not stupid it’s fact. 

2 minutes on Google show that's not a fact.

 

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/all-cancers/by-country/

 

 

[Robo61]

29 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

It’s quite obvious what Brewer implied when she said the NHS is bad at saving lives. If you have cancer or other life threatening disease you are more likely to die here than most other comparable European Countries. That’s not stupid it’s fact. 

You don't do Google do you🤣🤣

[StanSP]

37 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

It’s quite obvious what Brewer implied when she said the NHS is bad at saving lives. If you have cancer or other life threatening disease you are more likely to die here than most other comparable European Countries. That’s not stupid it’s fact. 

Turns out this is stupid and that's a fact

[SpacedX]

10 hours ago, kingkisnorbo said:

Julia Hartley Brewer is one of stupidest people to ever be allowed into the media. Same pool as Wootton and Morgan.
 

Gutter level. 

Absolutely. Remember her interview and promotion of the ridiculous Mike Yeadon that was posted on here during the height of SARs-CoV2? This is sensationalist, junk and as you say, gutter level media designed to appeal to and reinforce populism and pseudoscientific belief.