Group H: Portugal, Ghana, Uruguay, South Korea

[StanSP]

8 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Didn't watch this one because its the equivalent of watching 'prime' Nuno Wolves vs 'prime' Dyche Burnley. Aka an entirely cagey, cynical, defensive fest. Very surprised there was a goal at all. Was it actually any good? 

First half not particularly. Maybe one or two chances of note. 

 

Second half better after Portugal scored. Meant Uruguay had to come out a bit more and they did. But they brought Suarez on for Nunez which wasn't the right call. Suarez is past it. For a moment it looked like they might actually equalise. Then the penalty sealed it and ruined the game. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

20 minutes ago, StanSP said:

First half not particularly. Maybe one or two chances of note. 

 

Second half better after Portugal scored. Meant Uruguay had to come out a bit more and they did. But they brought Suarez on for Nunez which wasn't the right call. Suarez is past it. For a moment it looked like they might actually equalise. Then the penalty sealed it and ruined the game. 

Fair enough. There's a sort of tactical fascination when these sort of teams meet. Immovable object vs immovable object. But it's not for me. Hope Uruguay don't get out the group and Portugal crash out in last 16.

[CosbehFox]

Uruguay to the bin please. Had enough of coward tactics and then shitting yourself when you are losing 

[CosbehFox]

39 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Didn't watch this one because its the equivalent of watching 'prime' Nuno Wolves vs 'prime' Dyche Burnley. Aka an entirely cagey, cynical, defensive fest. Very surprised there was a goal at all. Was it actually any good? 

No, exactly as you said 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

No, exactly as you said 

**** both those countries football teams to be honest. Even worse in the case of Portugal because they actually have decent players but are scared to play any other way than on the counter attack 

[Nalis]

Uruguay should start Suarez against Ghana to get into their heads because based on the performances so far they'll struggle to win in normal circumstances. Would the players be professional about it or refuse to even shake his hand?

Edited 29 November 2022 by Nalis

[Dan]

6 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Clearly the rule makers can't get the handball rule right. The same debates have been going around in circles for years and years.

 

Just be done with it and in instances of contentious handballs, give an indirect free kick. 

 

I've always thought the notion of penalties being given is pretty flawed in many instances anyway. Just because it's in the box, doesn't mean a goal was as likely as it is when you get a penalty. 

 

Why should the ball hitting somebody's hand in the box, potentially nowhere near a goal or in a scenario resembling a chance lead to a free shot on goal from 12 yards out? 

 

So many games, especially big games, come down to one goal. It's a low-scoring sport. To make something as innocuous as a ball hitting somebody's hand so decisive makes a bit of a mockery of the sport when you think about it. If that's what it all comes down to, what's the point? 

It's a complete farce really. The reward is massive for something so easily given.

 

Portugal have had a disgusting penalty in both games so far.

[leicsmac]

50 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Uruguay should start Suarez against Ghana to get into their heads because based on the performances so far they'll struggle to win in normal circumstances. Would the players be professional about it or refuse to even shake his hand?

Good question.

 

Speaking personally, what Suarez did was cheating that a loophole in the rules of the game allowed him to get by with and should have been changed after he did it, viz. no longer a red card and penalty but yellow card and penalty goal awarded.

[Nalis]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Good question.

 

Speaking personally, what Suarez did was cheating that a loophole in the rules of the game allowed him to get by with and should have been changed after he did it, viz. no longer a red card and penalty but yellow card and penalty goal awarded.

Yeah I agree with that and in my view the problem is with the rule as opposed to the player. If it was a player from our own countries most of us would understand, dont know Ghanaians would have been outraged in Gyan did that at the other end.

 

Guess there are small similar arguments for cynical fouls to break up play that happen all the time.

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Yeah I agree with that and in my view the problem is with the rule as opposed to the player. If it was a player from our own countries most of us would understand, dont know Ghanaians would have been outraged in Gyan did that at the other end.

 

Guess there are small similar arguments for cynical fouls to break up play that happen all the time.

Yep, the rule is definitely the issue, not the player, which is why it should be changed.

[davieG]

11 hours ago, Super_horns said:

A very poor call but it didn’t decide the  game in reality tbh

Not directly but it took any hope out of Uruguay and they more or less stopped  playing, at the time of the penalty they were all over Portugal and looked like the team most likely to score next.

[StanSP]

For the avoidance of any doubt... 

 

Cricket fans will like the similarity to ultra-edge... 

 

[HybridFox]

4 hours ago, StanSP said:

For the avoidance of any doubt... 

 

Cricket fans will like the similarity to ultra-edge... 

 

 

[Unabomber]

It’s pretty cringeworthy how much Ronaldo values personal achievements over team ones. 

[Nalis]

World Cup 2022: Luis Suarez refuses to apologise for Ghana handball in 2010

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63821327

 

Good man Luis. The journalist should apologise for even asking the question.

[shen]

21 minutes ago, Nalis said:

World Cup 2022: Luis Suarez refuses to apologise for Ghana handball in 2010

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63821327

 

Good man Luis. The journalist should apologise for even asking the question.

It was blatant cheating and unsporting behaviour. He prevented a certain goal.

But Maradona never apologised. Henry never apologised. They got away with it and none of them regret it.

 

He can say he got a red card and they got a penalty, but he 'bought' his side a chance where they would've had none. It's just a shame he was rewarded.

[leicsmac]

12 hours ago, shen said:

It was blatant cheating and unsporting behaviour. He prevented a certain goal.

But Maradona never apologised. Henry never apologised. They got away with it and none of them regret it.

 

He can say he got a red card and they got a penalty, but he 'bought' his side a chance where they would've had none. It's just a shame he was rewarded.

Yep, the rule is the problem, not the player, which is why it should be changed.

[StanSP]

I know it's not all about UK time but Ghana vs Uruguay would have been great as one of the Friday night games. 

[Finnegan]

On 29/11/2022 at 04:29, leicsmac said:

Good question.

 

Speaking personally, what Suarez did was cheating that a loophole in the rules of the game allowed him to get by with and should have been changed after he did it, viz. no longer a red card and penalty but yellow card and penalty goal awarded.

 

I agree and I don't. I agree with the proposed rule change, I mean this is #5838447 on my "In Rugby..." points but obviously we have penalty tries in rugby for offences on the try line or close to it that really blatantly stop a try illegally. The Ghana shot that Suarez saved was so clearly going in I don't think anyone could complain "it was subjective!" if refs had the power to give a goal there. 

 

But within the context of the rules I don't have a problem with what Suarez did and, weirdly, I don't think I even really consider it cheating? Bad sportsmanship, maybe, but he knew that his actions would have a consequence and he did it. What he did was, in a way, in the rules in that there's a clearly written punishment for that action and he opted to take it. He wasn't being subtle, he wasn't trying to trick anyone, he just said "OK no problem I'll have the red card, you can have the penalty, that's a fair trade off, now take your shot."

 

Of all the shady stuff Suarez has done in his career, weirdly I'm most OK with that handball. Because it was so transparent. 

 

Yet Suarez is considered a villain and Thierry Henry is loved the world over (yknow, except in ROI) as a gentleman of the game. But I have far more problem with Thierry Henry and what he did. Thierry Henry DID cheat, he subtly tried to handle it without the ref seeing, knew full well he did it and his team scored as a result. The deception is the distinction for me. Its what makes it cheating. Knowingly breaking the rules as trying to get away with it. 

 

Edited 2 December 2022 by Finnegan

[leicsmac]

59 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I agree and I don't. I agree with the proposed rule change, I mean this is #5838447 on my "In Rugby..." points but obviously we have penalty tries in rugby for offences on the try line or close to it that really blatantly stop a try illegally. The Ghana shot that Suarez saved was so clearly going in I don't think anyone could complain "it was subjective!" if refs had the power to give a goal there.

 

Yep, and I really think football needs to take a leaf from rugby there and be able to award such "penalty goals" if the offense is so flagrant and is so obviously going to stop a goal.

 

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

But within the context of the rules I don't have a problem with what Suarez did and, weirdly, I don't think I even really consider it cheating? Bad sportsmanship, maybe, but he knew that his actions would have a consequence and he did it. What he did was, in a way, in the rules in that there's a clearly written punishment for that action and he opted to take it. He wasn't being subtle, he wasn't trying to trick anyone, he just said "OK no problem I'll have the red card, you can have the penalty, that's a fair trade off, now take your shot."

 

Of all the shady stuff Suarez has done in his career, weirdly I'm most OK with that handball. Because it was so transparent. 

 

Yet Suarez is considered a villain and Thierry Henry is loved the world over (yknow, except in ROI) as a gentleman of the game. But I have far more problem with Thierry Henry and what he did. Thierry Henry DID cheat, he subtly tried to handle it without the ref seeing, knew full well he did it and his team scored as a result. The deception is the distinction for me. Its what makes it cheating. Knowingly breaking the rules as trying to get away with it. 

 

Interesting take.

 

My own thoughts are that both Henry and Suarez committed an act of gratuitous and wilful cheating in order to help their side win a vital game, and the subtlety or blatancy of it doesn't really come into it. It's subverting the game either way, obvious or deceptive IMO. 

[Finnegan]

15 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yep, and I really think football needs to take a leaf from rugby there and be able to award such "penalty goals" if the offense is so flagrant and is so obviously going to stop a goal.

 

Interesting take.

 

My own thoughts are that both Henry and Suarez committed an act of gratuitous and wilful cheating in order to help their side win a vital game, and the subtlety or blatancy of it doesn't really come into it. It's subverting the game either way, obvious or deceptive IMO. 

 

I just think Suarez commits an intentional foul. He does something illegal but so does every player shoulder barging an opponent in the back or tripping them up or committing any number of offences that are fouls in the laws of the game. 

 

Not every offence is "cheating" really is it? For me, cheating is trying to get AROUND the rules. Cheating is trying to break rules and not be punished, cheating is trying to gain an unfair advantage through subterfuge. 

 

Suarez has cheated probably actually literally thousands of times in his career and he's almost certainly won games of football by cheating through simulation, diving to win penalties and free kicks, faking contact to get players booked or sent off and doing who knows what other covert nonsense and getting away with it. That's cheating, for me. 

 

But the rules being what they are, they offer Suarez an option. You can handle this ball in the penalty area, you can stop your team conceding a goal, but if you do it the punishment is your team concedes a penalty and you miss the rest of the match. 

 

Personally I agree with you in that the punishment should be more in cases where a goal is so obviously going to be scored, I agree that the goal should be given instead of a penalty. But then it's the laws of the game that let Ghana down. Suarez just acts in the best interests of his team and sacrifices himself so that they can have a chance to not concede. 

 

It's not like Ghana didn't get a penalty and a free shot at winning the game then and there. 

 

I consider myself a pretty decent, fairly honest person with a moderately OK moral compass. I don't dive, I hate simulation, I'm even that guy that's honest to refs and linos when the ball came off me last before going out. But if it's the 120th minute and I'm stood on the goal line and my team is about to concede the goal that knocks them out of the world cup I don't think I can stand here and say I wouldn't instinctively put my hand out to stop it. And I don't think I'd apologise for it, either. 

 

Edited 2 December 2022 by Finnegan

[deejdeej]

I thought Suarez' wonder save was genius. He got the correct punishment for his actions and Ghana couldn't capitalise. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[StanSP]

Suarez starts. 

 

Wonder which Ghana player will target him first... 

[Hammo]

7 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Suarez starts. 

 

Wonder which Ghana player will target him first... 

Would like to think that Ghana - and Big Dan in particular - are not so dumb that they would fall into that particular trap.

[Nalis]

Seeing as the coverage has painted Suarez as the villain I'd want Uruguay to win but I love Big Dan. Torn.