Does Leicester City have a Leadership/culture problem?

[cityfanlee23]

First off, this will seem obvious to most but just to clarify, I'm talking about culture from a standards perspective.
Opening the floor to opinions on this as I genuinely don't know the answer, but my instinct here is yes, I think most would agree that on the pitch we lack leadership at the moment, but does this come from a major lack of culture right across the club?

I've been spending a bit of time recently watching interviews and discussions from great players and managers such a Roy Keane, Rio, Sir Alex, and "The Diary of a CEO" on YouTube (Stevens interviews with Neville, Moyes and Rio are Fantastic), and one thing that seems to be a common theme with successful businesses/clubs/people, is that a strong culture is one of the foundations of success. 
Hearing stories from Rio where he basically said that at United, Sir Alex rarely came into the dressing room because he did not need to, and he knew the players would manage themselves mainly due to the fierce culture that had been laid out over the years, compared to his time at QPR where players would be talking about their wages before kickoff, going back to say that this simply could not happen at United, because players like Keane would have thrown them around the dressing room if they had done that. 

And it got me thinking, what is the "culture" at Leicester? At the moment we have a board that are seemingly missing, an Owner who doesn't seem to want to take action (I appreciate he has global businesses though), a manager who seems to be blaming everyone from the board to the fans, anyone but himself, and worst of all, a fanbase who largely seem content with it all. 
It often seems to me that culture is the underpinning of success, and when things are not going right financially or on the pitch, often great teams will bounce back because ultimately the foundation they have built will still be there even if results are not going their way.
But with Leicester, it feels like we have eroded our foundations. I feel very much like we are back to 2007 in the context that as a young fan, It felt like we had no direction other than down, and we were hoping something would just spontaneously fix overnight and we might scrape through.
2023 almost feels similar to me, I mean sure I'd rather be in this position than the 2007/08 season, but to me it still feels like we have lost direction, we are rudderless. When Nigel came in for our League One season, he laid the foundation starting with the culture, we were signing players who had a point to prove, and when he returned he continued that, by developing a culture of sport science, strength training, meticulous scouting and transfer work, but most importantly, the never say die attitude of the players, who did not know when they were beaten, and that continued up until the 2014/15 season, where we ultimately scraped through in dramatic fashion, but throughout the season, we were never beaten until the final whistle blew. 

Today it often feels like we are beaten before the first whistle is blown, because from the top to the bottom we are missing an edge, a foundation, a culture of winning games.

How do you feel about this? 

[MattFox]

Internal culture is subservient to the ownership and based around not upsetting the ownership

[Tommy G]

Hard to say from the outside - our main source of info as fans and stakeholders in the club is via the media with the little bit of he said she said on the side.

 

I think in businesses cultures can change with personnel, and from experience it's not necessary the people in the boardroom that deliver the culture - they set the expectations but it's the next level underneath that are charged with implementation and delivery. 

 

Apart from Vichai there hasn't been much change in personnel, since his death we've had two 5th place finishes and won the FA Cup, a bit above our station for a club our size. What has happened in the past 18 months is difficult to dissect, there haven't been large scale personnel changes either in the boardroom or at managerial level. 

 

So to answer your question I'm not sure!

[Les-TA-Jon]

I don't intend to cut off this discussion at source - it's one that has merit - but I do think the simple reality is that we do not know, nor can we know much of what goes on inside the club. 

 

People often conflate media silence with internal inaction. 

 

Under this ownership the club has always been incredibly tight lipped. I think they're largely correct to be so, because otherwise you just give the media ammunition and let them control the narrative of things. 

 

How much we hear from the club directly on things like leadership, culture, signings and managerial appointments doesn't actually affect how those things are managed within the club. 

Edited 19 January 2023 by Les-TA-Jon

[KingsX]

We can only infer the answer from the facts known to all of us outside Seagrave.  But the absence of alignment between the board, the manager/coaches and the players is glaring.  I believe the answer is quite obviously yes.

[cruzFOX]

Don’t forget the players we had in the dressing room during those hey days. In order for the rest of the group to raise their game they need inspiration and players to look upto. our changing room had big Wes, big huth, kasper and a younger energetic Vardy and a mercurial Mahrez. If your in that company how can you not want to go out play and do all you can?

 

I know we can’t go back to the past but the foundation is still there and our identity no one can take from us. We just have to rebuild on top of it and go again. The template is there. just ask young Viktor why he wants to come here? 2 answers I bet;

to play in the best league in the world and because of what the club has achieved since 2015/16. The whole world knows Leicester city now.

 

We need to rebuild - the revolution starts now!

[RoboFox]

7 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

I don't intend to cut off this discussion at source - it's one that has merit - but I do think the simple reality is that we do not know, nor can we know much of what goes on inside the club. 

 

People often conflate media silence with internal inaction. 

 

Under this ownership the club has always been incredibly tight lipped. I think they're largely correct to be so, because otherwise you just give the media ammunition and let them control the narrative of things. 

 

How much we hear from the club directly on things like leadership, culture, signings and managerial appointments doesn't actually affect how those things are managed within the club. 

This.

 

It’s fun to waffle on here with a load of conjecture but the truth is nobody really has a fvcking clue about any of it.

[StanSP]

Leadership has been lacking since Kasper left. At least when Wes left, Kasper was still here and be the commanding figure off the pitch. 

 

It's quite clear we lack that level of professionalism and example-setting both on the pitch and off it. 

 

Vardy and Albrighton may be part of the leadership group (does that still exist?) but it has lost some big characters over the last few seasons.

 

 

[cityfanlee23]

Just now, RoboFox said:

This.

 

It’s fun to waffle on here with a load of conjecture but the truth is nobody really has a fvcking clue about any of it.

 

9 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

I don't intend to cut off this discussion at source - it's one that has merit - but I do think the simple reality is that we do not know, nor can we know much of what goes on inside the club. 

 

People often conflate media silence with internal inaction. 

 

Under this ownership the club has always been incredibly tight lipped. I think they're largely correct to be so, because otherwise you just give the media ammunition and let them control the narrative of things. 

 

How much we hear from the club directly on things like leadership, culture, signings and managerial appointments doesn't actually affect how those things are managed within the club. 

Completely agree, it's really hard to tell. I think ultimately though, if the culture is there, it doesn't seem to be showing itself on the pitch at the moment. 14/15 & 16/17 we were really solid, warriors on the pitch who commanded respect from eachother and were vocal. Today we seem to have lost that, I know that there's a balance here, being vocal doesn't mean you suddenly have a good culture, there's many toxic cultures out there too. But often at times it feels like when that first goal goes in, the game is probably over for us which is the most worrying part. I know it's almost impossible to actually judge culture from the outside as fans, it's more of a gut instinct that something is missing, we have no direction and it feels like we have no underpinning foundation of grit and determination to win. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

From the outside we seen incredibly soft. There's maybe Cags and Faes (debatable) who you might describe as having a bit about them, the rest are little boys really. 

 

When the chips are down there's no one that charges into the fight head on.

[Tommy G]

1 minute ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

From the outside we seen incredibly soft. There's maybe Cags and Faes (debatable) who you might describe as having a bit about them, the rest are little boys really. 

 

When the chips are down there's no one that charges into the fight head on.

What about Luke Thomas?

[The mullet of Phil Gee]

I fear that things have become a little too comfortable since we moved into Seagrave, and as such we have lost much of our edge and hunger.

I think of it like 2 boxers. One who trains with the very best equipment in a perfect air conditioned gym, and the other who is out pounding the streets in the rain at 5am with very basic equipment. When things get really tough, who is best able to cope?

 

It just all feels very fragmented. Players wanting to go, contracts being allowed to run down, others never getting a game, Brendan blaming everything but himself, question marks over the training regime with the high number of injuries, the whole issue of signing players and silence from the owners. 

It used to feel like everyone was pulling in the same direction, but not so much at the minute.

 

 

 

 

 

[cityfanlee23]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Leadership has been lacking since Kasper left. At least when Wes left, Kasper was still here and be the commanding figure off the pitch. 

 

It's quite clear we lack that level of professionalism and example-setting both on the pitch and off it. 

 

Vardy and Albrighton may be part of the leadership group (does that still exist?) but it has lost some big characters over the last few seasons.

 

 

Christ I mean think of the players we've lost since 15/16. 
Wes, Was, Drinkwater, Kasper, Fuchs, Maguire was a decent leader, Huth, Konchesky, Cambiasso,  I'd even throw King in there as a solid foundation player who was respected, he was not much of a shouter, but he was Leicester through and through. 
We've lost a LOT of leadership over the years and have not really replaced it.

[cityfanlee23]

To make a REALLY basic comparison, I appreciate it's not as black and white as this, but we have gone from signing brute force players like Wasilewski and Huth (who could also play) to focusing on more "modern" flair players like Fofana who loved to try to ping a pass around, and that is fine, providing you still keep the backbone of a balanced team of flair and grit. 
It's almost like Man City vs Burnley, Flair vs Graft. We have tried to move in the direction of more technically gifted players, but in doing so we've lost pretty much all of our graft.

[VLC86]

Difficult to disagree that we have an issue.

 

Players have moved to a training ground where fans can’t get close, they don’t train with the youth team and are generally pampered. The recruitment appears to have moved away from having the right characters and Brendan has mentioned this in interviews yet Brendan himself has been the leader who has allowed it to happen.

[cityfanlee23]

5 minutes ago, The mullet of Phil Gee said:

I fear that things have become a little too comfortable since we moved into Seagrave, and as such we have lost much of our edge and hunger.

I think of it like 2 boxers. One who trains with the very best equipment in a perfect air conditioned gym, and the other who is out pounding the streets in the rain at 5am with very basic equipment. When things get really tough, who is best able to cope?

 

It just all feels very fragmented. Players wanting to go, contracts being allowed to run down, others never getting a game, Brendan blaming everything but himself, question marks over the training regime with the high number of injuries, the whole issue of signing players and silence from the owners. 

It used to feel like everyone was pulling in the same direction, but not so much at the minute.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this probably breaks down my entire post into a sentence really, this is what I mean by Leadership/Culture, we don't seem to have much in terms of a foundation at the moment. 

[kingkisnorbo]

Remember reading in Tony Adams book once that he said any team worth their salt needed at the very least 6 maniacs in their starting eleven to get anywhere. I’d argue we have 0. 

[David Hankey]

We have been bereft of leadership on the field since Wes retired. Certainly Jonny Evans does his bit when fit which, unfortunately for us, is not that often.

[OntarioFox]

26 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Christ I mean think of the players we've lost since 15/16. 
Wes, Was, Drinkwater, Kasper, Fuchs, Maguire was a decent leader, Huth, Konchesky, Cambiasso,  I'd even throw King in there as a solid foundation player who was respected, he was not much of a shouter, but he was Leicester through and through. 
We've lost a LOT of leadership over the years and have not really replaced it.

Can't underestimate the role King had in the dressing room. I'm still absolutely livid at the way Puel froze him out without ever talking to him, even if he wasn't in our plans on the pitch going forwards. He was also the one, alongside Kasper, who helped console other squad members and be a source of support in the aftermath of losing Vichai, from what I read. There was a valid argument to say he was only still a Leicester player due to sentimentality, but the complete lack of identity the club now has perhaps shows how much we actually gained from those sorts of player being present.

That sort of experience - being with us right from our lowest ebb with relegation to League One, to winning the Premier League and playing Champions League football - is invaluable even if you're not the sort to be barking orders.

 

It's about a club culture, something we really managed to create (twice) under Pearson, save for it almost being thrown away under Sven.

 

The closest we have left to that is Vardy, and he's never really struck me as a natural leader. During our meteoric rise, he was the joker. It was Wes, Huth, Wasilewski, Kasper being the role models and a source of experience. Pearson also had a knack of signing pros at the end of their careers to help that development. Phillips, Cambiasso, Powell, GTF, even Nobby Solano and the return of Dickov in League One. Their playing time was limited, but they were useful assets and brought in primarily to guide and improve the changing room. We don't do that anymore. We don't have any real experience, anyone "streetwise" who has been there and done it anymore.

 

Albrighton, too, is a reserved sort - probably a wise head but again not a born leader. In the King mould, I guess - he's not going to single-handedly change the dressing room culture for the better.

 

The squad is hollow. And the problem is - I don't know where we find that natural leader. 

Edited 19 January 2023 by OntarioFox

[Fox92]

Only difference is with your example is that Roy Keane doing stuff as you've described is 15/20 years ago, football is different now.

 

The whole "we lack leaders" thing always comes up but I look at the PL itself and there aren't players like Keane/Vieira/Adams, and more recently, Gerrard/Terry/Kompany. The league doesn't seem to have big leaders and characters and stuff those players did wouldn't happen now. Games moved on.

 

Edited 19 January 2023 by Fox92

[Fox92]

52 minutes ago, OntarioFox said:

Can't underestimate the role King had in the dressing room. I'm still absolutely livid at the way Puel froze him out without ever talking to him, even if he wasn't in our plans on the pitch going forwards. He was also the one, alongside Kasper, who helped console other squad members and be a source of support in the aftermath of losing Vichai, from what I read. There was a valid argument to say he was only still a Leicester player due to sentimentality, but the complete lack of identity the club now has perhaps shows how much we actually gained from those sorts of player being present.

That sort of experience - being with us right from our lowest ebb with relegation to League One, to winning the Premier League and playing Champions League football - is invaluable even if you're not the sort to be barking orders.

 

It's about a club culture, something we really managed to create (twice) under Pearson, save for it almost being thrown away under Sven.

 

The closest we have left to that is Vardy, and he's never really struck me as a natural leader. During our meteoric rise, he was the joker. It was Wes, Huth, Wasilewski, Kasper being the role models and a source of experience. Pearson also had a knack of signing pros at the end of their careers to help that development. Phillips, Cambiasso, Powell, GTF, even Nobby Solano and the return of Dickov in League One. Their playing time was limited, but they were useful assets and brought in primarily to guide and improve the changing room. We don't do that anymore. We don't have any real experience, anyone "streetwise" who has been there and done it anymore.

 

Albrighton, too, is a reserved sort - probably a wise head but again not a born leader. In the King mould, I guess - he's not going to single-handedly change the dressing room culture for the better.

 

The squad is hollow. And the problem is - I don't know where we find that natural leader. 

It's not just about signing experienced players though because we've done that, Bertrand is exactly that.

 

Players mentality needs to be right too. And the mentality and character of the other players needs to be right too, there's no point in having experince if others don't get inspired or look up to them. I feel we lack players that want it, as such, we're so easy to roll over.  Pearson didn't just bring in experienced players he brought in players that wanted it too. Drinkwater, Morgan, Simpson - I feel like these type of players would have done anything to win for the club and I don't feel that now with the current players.

 

Saturday was a great example, Forest right up for it (Cooper said post match he told the players how important the match was as a derby) yet our players didn't look arsed, players that are considered "our own" too. It's Forest away ffs.

[fuchsntf]

Too many too much hurt..but it’s the simple  all enclosing trial & tribulations of football ( sport) success, & missed opportunities..

WE ARE NOT ANYTHING SPECIAL…& there is no magic wand,or fantasy conspiracy theory…

There will be mixed mitigating circumstances, Rodgers not so guilty,Owners not so

guilty..Promises kept,promises misunderstood.   Players descisions off field irrelevant,onfield all possible permutations..

Too me it started with Ranieris dissolving of an excellent Backroom staff , that shattered all trust..Then a small positive rebuild,but few wise investments..

Then Corona hit, after that all is conjecture…with owners not forthcoming in upfront information…even a trickling of intent..

 

Social Media allows fans to creat some romantic conspiracy theories ,but they are only based upon individual perspectives on a typical every season fall from grace.

Nothing special  really, though some would have it otherwise…

Bound and Vardyed Schmeicheled in a film script…

 

We are falling into a very deep canyon, or we can save ourselves clinging to that last piece of schrub & boulders, with a well meaning but not good enough Rodgers

at last taking some plaudits,but not the ending thanks…

Whether Top & management still have the reins..future will tell…

But the Lasts seasons LCFC story is nothing special…just a part of another seasons twists & turmoils of any other struggling club.

Dont waste your time looking for answers just to answer frustrations, we all belong to the same story…

 

[cityfanlee23]

20 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Too many too much hurt..but it’s the simple  all enclosing trial & tribulations of football ( sport) success, & missed opportunities..

WE ARE NOT ANYTHING SPECIAL…& there is no magic wand,or fantasy conspiracy theory…

There will be mixed mitigating circumstances, Rodgers not so guilty,Owners not so

guilty..Promises kept,promises misunderstood.   Players descisions off field irrelevant,onfield all possible permutations..

Too me it started with Ranieris dissolving of an excellent Backroom staff , that shattered all trust..Then a small positive rebuild,but few wise investments..

Then Corona hit, after that all is conjecture…with owners not forthcoming in upfront information…even a trickling of intent..

 

Social Media allows fans to creat some romantic conspiracy theories ,but they are only based upon individual perspectives on a typical every season fall from grace.

Nothing special  really, though some would have it otherwise…

Bound and Vardyed Schmeicheled in a film script…

 

We are falling into a very deep canyon, or we can save ourselves clinging to that last piece of schrub & boulders, with a well meaning but not good enough Rodgers

at last taking some plaudits,but not the ending thanks…

Whether Top & management still have the reins..future will tell…

But the Lasts seasons LCFC story is nothing special…just a part of another seasons twists & turmoils of any other struggling club.

Dont waste your time looking for answers just to answer frustrations, we all belong to the same story…

 

I agree with everything you've said, but personally I'd say we should as a fanbase always be looking for answers if we are to hold the club to account. 
Regarding the point I've highlighted, do you feel that the dissolving of the excellent backroom staff is the safety net that stops us falling off a cliff when these mitigating circumstances occur?

Again not to compare us to United, but during Fergusons reign, there were constant stories of unhappy players, public arguments and breakdowns, but the culture and professionalism that was instilled into the dressing room and staff ultimately kept the core of the team in check, even when individuals were not at their best. So players like Rooney or Beckham, Keane or Ronaldo could openly have issues with the club, but the team would continue to deliver because as a unit, there was an entire squad of professionals who stayed in line whilst these things inevitably happened.

Whereas when Fergie left, and Moyes came in and tried to shake things up with some new staff, and old staff being let go, things took a turn, and have continued throughout the last decade.
So that's where I think a comparison could be made towards us, we had such a solid club from top to bottom, board to scouting, to coaching and players, everyone kept eachother in check, and even if a specific department had a period where they missed, for example poor transfers, overall the squad was strong enough to make it work. 
Whereas right now, it feels like we are desperately relying on 1 individual to make something happen, because as a fanbase we can't really rely on the other 10 delivering. 

[Father Ted]

When you have players (clowns) like James Maddison running the changing room then I think it’s quite obvious what the answer is. Especially as he hasn’t been injured…

[Quorn_fox]

You don’t know exactly what goes on, but sometimes you get clues.