justfoxes Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 Can’t blame Top for not having the financial clout due to Heavy losses during the pandemic but the Rodgers situation whereas the board didn’t want to be hit FFP by paying off Rodgers is bewildering, he should have been paid off last year we probably wouldn’t be in this mess if not so the Board must take some blame. But ultimately Rodgers Massive failure who blames everyone but himself the ego of the man thought he was the Top coach all pundits were saying kissing his failure of an ass! Rudkin his role in contract wind downs etc a total mismanagement of Rodgers failures the man has to go ! Most of the players that showed on Sunday some actual heart to play a decent game of football, if they had not played like that months earlier we’d still be in the Premier League it just grates that the likes of Forest Bournemouth even Leeds and Everton at times fought hard to stay up we just rolled over and let clubs dominate and beat us easily with us giving nothing 1
Jono1604 Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 10 minutes ago, Pliskin said: No one person is to blame. Collectively the board as a whole are to blame and that includes Rodgers. There’s a lot of theories around where it all went wrong, but for me, when going through it with a fine tooth comb giving Rodgers more creative licence was the first mistake along with his extended contract. The board should have looked and his and Congertons track record to see their input at other clubs has been a disaster. The second mistake was clearly a conversation was had with Rodgers about his input in transfers, and this is where I think the relationship broke down. Brendans mistake was to publicly out the club, because this is where is went from a bad situation to a disastrous one. He tried to force the hand of the club, essentially he bit, and that was never ever going to end well. When he didn’t get what he wanted rather than knuckle down and prove to the world he is actually a great coach, he ****ed everything off and gave up. This translated to the players and a negative rot set in throughout the club. The fatal mistake was not acting sooner to remove Brendan, as soon as he outed the club he should have been sacked…. A new manager at that stage would have been able to work with the group, and get the best out of them again until some funds could be generated. And the final mistake was dishing out these hideous contracts. I think this has been compounded by the drop off in form, which makes the situation seem a lot worse, but still it was a ridiculous error that’s left us with £100 of millions of assets walking away for free. The board ? Dont you think that is just a front? Do you really think the board sacks Rodgers and hires the managers! I just find this board thing laughable !Dont you think our owner makes all the big decisions ! Top is at fault end of !
SouthStandUpperTier Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 23 minutes ago, lcfc278 said: I watched the West Ham game and every time the camera panned to the 2 of them, Rudkin did not look like a guy that's in charge of anything, if anything he was almost like a 'Smithers to Mr. Burns' kind of character for Top. 2
Pliskin Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 2 minutes ago, Jono1604 said: The board ? Dont you think that is just a front? Do you really think the board sacks Rodgers and hires the managers! I just find this board thing laughable !Dont you think our owner makes all the big decisions ! Top is at fault end of ! Do I think the consortium of people put together to run the day to day operations of the club are responsible for the hiring and firing of managers…….. erm yes? That’s kind of how boards work…. Top heads up that board but it’s a well known fact he leaves a lot of the day to day operations to those who make up the rest of his consortium…. Top may make final decisions and interject but they will collectively make decisions together. This isn’t some American conspiracy, it’s how business’s generally operate…. So yes, I hold the board (which includes top) responsible….. 1
Jono1604 Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 Just now, Pliskin said: Do I think the consortium of people put together to run the day to day operations of the club are responsible for the hiring and firing of managers…….. erm yes? That’s kind of how boards work…. Top heads up that board but it’s a well known fact he leaves a lot of the day to day operations to those who make up the rest of his consortium…. Top may make final decisions and interject but they will collectively make decisions together. This isn’t some American conspiracy, it’s how business’s generally operate…. So yes, I hold the board (which includes top) responsible….. And i suppose Thailand is democratic and you get to the top in business through honesty and sheer hard work
David Hankey Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 "Who are you most annoyed at regarding relegation?" The list is too long to itemise here. All those within the Club know the errors and mistakes they have made from Top down to players. No-one can hold their head up high. It has been a disastrous decline over the last 18 months and those responsible know in their heart of hearts who they are. 2
LCCFox96 Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 Rodgers, Rudkin, and Top was a poisonous combo for our situation. Rodgers in a situation with no money to refresh the squad that was stuttering in the 21/22 season, and where he'd run his mouth on a weekly basis about some of the players not being good enough and requiring a 'healthy shake-up' was very dangerous even before form fell off a cliff at the start of this season. Rodgers isn't the manager for that environment. The club didn't recognise that and gave him far, far, far too long. Rudkin is Top's earpiece and mouthpiece internally as far as football matters go. It's obvious he leans on him for decision-making guidance in that department and Rudkin has watched the flames of a bad summer and start to the season turn into a dumpster fire. Sheer hubris and negligence and passive beyond belief. His guidance to Top to make decisions has been well off the mark. He should be removed from his position. If any of us had performed this badly at work we'd be getting a P45. All that said on Rudkin, Top also has a brain. He didn't listen to fans and, according to reports, concerns from a number of players. He stuck with Rudkin's judgement until it was too late. That's also hubris in my opinion - the 'we'll be okay' mantra. When Puel left he sacked him 2months earlier and made reference to the negativity around the stadium which could not be ignored in his statement. We've slumped to the second division here because he has ignored that same negativity and division between the fans and the club. At the same everyone in the club is calling for unity and support from the fans. He failed to step up and act.
RonnieTodger Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 Fans to a large degree. General arrogance and apathy is just as much with them as it was with the board. Sure, they can’t make the changes the board did but didn’t apply anywhere enough pressure. Even on here, many laughed at the idea of binning Rodgers for Dyche in January/February. 1
ForestAreMagic Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 12 hours ago, Stuntman_Mike said: Whoever thought replacing Kasper with Ward was acceptable. There's been tons of errors but that was the most costly for me. All of us at Forest couldn’t believe Leicester did that - you played most of the season with a keeper that’s worse than Hennessey, our back-up. I don’t watch Leicester much obviously, but from what I’ve seen Ward was terrible. When Henderson got injured, Forest went and got Navas. I think the biggest single reason Leicester and Leeds went down rather than Forest and Everton is quality of goalkeeper. 1
Livid Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 3 hours ago, fox_favourite said: Bruce Springsteen Stop it!!!
Durnerz Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 3 hours ago, CountesthorpeFox1 said: I think Top’s part is naivety and faith rather than gross negligence. I think he’s getting an unfair drumming from fans. Since KP have taken over they’ve been brilliant on the whole. I don’t think this happens with Vichai still around but I’m sure in his younger years he made some terrible business decisions that he learnt from and that’s why it wouldn’t have happened with him around The guy has been involved with the club for a decade so I don’t think it’s nativity. Everyone could see what was happening from afar, he was up close. Stuck his head in the sand and this is the end result. I agree with the family being absolutely brilliant and I do think this is just a bump in the road but there’s no denying the failures from those mentioned this season.
CountesthorpeFox1 Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 4 minutes ago, Durnerz said: The guy has been involved with the club for a decade so I don’t think it’s nativity. Everyone could see what was happening from afar, he was up close. Stuck his head in the sand and this is the end result. I agree with the family being absolutely brilliant and I do think this is just a bump in the road but there’s no denying the failures from those mentioned this season. I agree and disagree even though that makes no sense at all haha. im by no means denying the shortcomings of decisions made but I don’t think it’s relevant how long he’s been involved with the club because experience isn’t made up of longevity, it’s made up from experiences. This is the first year he’s really had to make tough decisions on wether to stick or twist and yes ‘we could all see it’ but we’re not the ones speaking to Rodgers and buying into him as a person, for me that’s where he’s been naive as he’s had the wool pulled over his eyes. I think he will learn from this because as much as we all probably care about where the club is more than him, he’ll be the one feeling it financially and I imagine he won’t let that happen again. we only ever got to see ‘Media Rodgers’ which in my opinion was a transparent ar*ehole anyway. How many times have you seen it at your work place, managers, bosses or directors unjustly keeping people around or giving them promotions not because they’re good (they’re normally awful) but because they have a relationship with them…. It’s just the politics of it all and seems as if that tiny little man was good at it. Top will come out of this more ruthless and cutthroat I imagine. 1
Ian S Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 4 minutes ago, CountesthorpeFox1 said: I agree and disagree even though that makes no sense at all haha. im by no means denying the shortcomings of decisions made but I don’t think it’s relevant how long he’s been involved with the club because experience isn’t made up of longevity, it’s made up from experiences. This is the first year he’s really had to make tough decisions on wether to stick or twist and yes ‘we could all see it’ but we’re not the ones speaking to Rodgers and buying into him as a person, for me that’s where he’s been naive as he’s had the wool pulled over his eyes. I think he will learn from this because as much as we all probably care about where the club is more than him, he’ll be the one feeling it financially and I imagine he won’t let that happen again. we only ever got to see ‘Media Rodgers’ which in my opinion was a transparent ar*ehole anyway. How many times have you seen it at your work place, managers, bosses or directors unjustly keeping people around or giving them promotions not because they’re good (they’re normally awful) but because they have a relationship with them…. It’s just the politics of it all and seems as if that tiny little man was good at it. Top will come out of this more ruthless and cutthroat I imagine. Top runs a massive business empire, why would relegation of his football team suddenly make him more ruthless and cut throat. You either have the balls or you don’t when it comes to the big decisions.
adamkhalifa Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 I'm going with Rudkin. The guy is a DOF, and failed to keep the organisation running. It's just poor management all round. Yes, he had success, but so what. That is the remit anyway. BR, Top, and Whelan were rubbish too. But for me, the major factor is the DOF. Not sure how he is still working in that position. I would have resigned myself.
when_you're_smiling Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 It’s about the bringing in of players for the last few years on high wages that not only weren’t good enough but, more importantly, didn’t have the right mentality. The overall quality bar has been lowered significantly, especially at the back where it really mattered last year. We seem to have fallen into the trap Stoke did of trying to keep with the top six by buying players who weren’t hungry enough. I’d love to know how much scouting is done on personality now compared to during the club’s rise. It used to be a mantra and hugely important. There’s a whole host of people responsible for that. Plenty who could have spoken up and stopped that happening, Rudkin, Rodgers, anyone in recruiting etc. I think if we’d have stayed up, we’d have been relegated next year anyway, no matter when Rodgers was sacked.
Footballwipe Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 2 hours ago, RonnieTodger said: Fans to a large degree. General arrogance and apathy is just as much with them as it was with the board. Sure, they can’t make the changes the board did but didn’t apply anywhere enough pressure. Even on here, many laughed at the idea of binning Rodgers for Dyche in January/February. "We are where we are" 1
An Away Move Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 One thing that just keeps replaying in my mind is the two points dropped against Brentford after Rodgers’ pathetic subs in that game. Also, and probably worse, is the movement away from data based scouting under Rodgers. John Percy mentioned it in a recent article and said some of that team left as they became disillusioned under Rodgers preference to go old school and get players like Bertrand who ‘he knew well’. I blame Top for not being disciplined about the second point. Why didn’t he just say ‘Sorry we’re not doing that. It’s a club protocol that’s served us well’. So in sum 70% Rodgers for the rot. 20% the club hierarchy for not laying down boundaries. 10% the players for being lackadaisical at times when they should have been busting a gut. 1
An Away Move Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 Just now, An Away Move said: One thing that just keeps replaying in my mind is the two points dropped against Brentford after Rodgers’ pathetic subs in that game. Also, and probably worse, is the movement away from data based scouting under Rodgers. John Percy mentioned it in a recent article and said some of that team left as they became disillusioned under Rodgers preference to go old school and get players like Bertrand who ‘he knew well’. I blame Top for not being disciplined about the second point. Why didn’t he just say ‘Sorry we’re not doing that. It’s a club protocol that’s served us well’. So in sum 70% Rodgers for the rot. 20% the club hierarchy for not laying down boundaries. 10% the players for being lackadaisical at times when they should have been busting a gut. Also the freezing out of Soyuncu for being ‘Nowhere near the level’. I never believed that. How many points did that cost us?
SemperEadem Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 No one lined up when they did eventually pot Rodgers.
CountesthorpeFox1 Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 15 minutes ago, Ian S said: Top runs a massive business empire, why would relegation of his football team suddenly make him more ruthless and cut throat. You either have the balls or you don’t when it comes to the big decisions. Top inherited a business empire, he didn’t create one. If he created one I’d totally agree. people go into business wanting to be the nice guy and the realise that it doesn’t work when they get burnt. You mention his football club, like it’s a drop in the ocean (and is a small part of his business no doubt) but this is still 100’s of millions of pounds we’re talking. I may be wrong and fear if I am it may cause problems further down the line if that’s the case. I don’t buy into you either are or aren’t though, you learn and adapt in everything you do in life. 1
Jamie Vard-on Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 Everyone. We’ve watched the football equivalent of this: 1 1
An Away Move Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 13 minutes ago, CountesthorpeFox1 said: Top inherited a business empire, he didn’t create one. If he created one I’d totally agree. people go into business wanting to be the nice guy and the realise that it doesn’t work when they get burnt. You mention his football club, like it’s a drop in the ocean (and is a small part of his business no doubt) but this is still 100’s of millions of pounds we’re talking. I may be wrong and fear if I am it may cause problems further down the line if that’s the case. I don’t buy into you either are or aren’t though, you learn and adapt in everything you do in life. I have a relative who runs several huge business. When he’s on-site at one particular business it runs very well. When he spends time on location dealing with another business problems crop up with those responsible for the delegated tasks. I wonder if Top being away so much and Rudkin having an office next to Rodgers started the rot.
CountesthorpeFox1 Posted 31 May 2023 Posted 31 May 2023 12 minutes ago, An Away Move said: I have a relative who runs several huge business. When he’s on-site at one particular business it runs very well. When he spends time on location dealing with another business problems crop up with those responsible for the delegated tasks. I wonder if Top being away so much and Rudkin having an office next to Rodgers started the rot. Could well be the case, that argument is we need a new DOF which a lot agree with.
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