Tactics Under Maresca

[LinekersLugs]

2 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

That's not true - since colin came in they actually have a decent record especially at home (their last 8 home games last season under him they won 4 and drew 3), and tactically they were much better than coventry.

They won’t be in the top 8 in this league 

 

they are already 0-3 For the season 🤦‍♂️

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

Strange that Iheanacho was asked to pin their CBs rather than drop like he normally does. Far better when when the CMs go beyond him 

I thought we mixed it up, in the first half especially, sometimes dropping in other times going up against the CB, but second half he some to drop more.

 

 

[sm1]

5 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Longer clip of the Praet chance, as I missed the initial build up because the extended highlights weren't available.

 

What a beautiful move! The way we pull the opposition out of possession to make space in behind is really great! Praet finishes badly, but he's really good in the build up for the move. Ricardo has been superb since he was put in this position, we already knew he was a good player, but he deserves major credit, because this is a Tielemans-esque sliding pass, the weight on it is perfect.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely beautiful and literally impossible to defend against. The pass from Ricky was amazing. We even cut open Liverpool several times in the first 20mins, with similar moves. The problem is we have either Ndidi or Praet at the end of them and both are poor finishers.

[LFox99]

really need to work on this, it's just silly, that's 1 guaranteed goal and one very decent chance with a shot on target

[StriderHiryu]

16 minutes ago, LFox99 said:

really need to work on this, it's just silly, that's 1 guaranteed goal and one very decent chance with a shot on target

The chances are being made though! You have to start somewhere. 
 

There’s also quite the silver lining in being in the Championship. Let’s say we survived last season but still appointed Maresca. Could we implement a style this radical from scratch in the Premier League? Maybe but we’d get tonked a lot, even if we would be able to sign better quality players. 
 

So far we see progression game to game. My prediction would be that come 2024 I’ll be posting clips like the ones above, but with end product. Let’s hope so anyway!

[Dan LCFC]

On 12/08/2023 at 20:05, BKLFox said:

Nothing mentioned about the subs? I imagine if Rodgers put 2 GKs on the bench there would be loads of posts slating him and making out it was the little weasels way of having a dig at the board about wanting signings

I don't think Rodgers was actually entirely wrong with things he said - he just said them to protect his own back despite being one of the chief arsonists of the fire. We didn't have money because he and his mate decided to waste a load of it.

 

I've far more sympathy with Maresca currently who hasn't been given what he needs.

[Dames]

7 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I don't think Rodgers was actually entirely wrong with things he said - he just said them to protect his own back despite being one of the chief arsonists of the fire. We didn't have money because he and his mate decided to waste a load of it.

 

I've far more sympathy with Maresca currently who hasn't been given what he needs.

At the same time we've learnt the hard way that the only loser when it comes to putting pressure on Rudkin is the club.

 

Pulling stunts like putting 2 GKs on the bench isn't going to get him what he wants. If anything its going to be used as a stick to beat him with when Rudkin decides he needs to protect his position. 

[moseeds]

13 hours ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Key part to all of these plays was the movement from Praet in behind.

Great stuff, but glaring how much space the opposition give and their lack of pressing intensity which masks errors. Definitely wip in the right direction though. We've had a very easy championship start which has helped massively in giving players time to learn/train without falling back into 'bad behaviours'.

[Lillehamring]

13 hours ago, inckley fox said:

I understand how it works when it works (if that makes sense), I just think we're killing games off when we reach a stage at which we lose a little bit of patience, and inject some urgency. I appreciate that we've worn sides down by the 60th minute as a result of playing the way we have, and that there are some fine examples of pulling defences all over the place in order to make the opening. I'm just not sure that we've reached the point (yet) where that's the most critical of factors in us taking control of games. I wouldn't expect it to be after a mere two league games either!

Exactly - and also because it is so different from what we had before it tends to really stand out - when it becomes more natural and more familiar (to us as well as the players) it'll make a lot more sense.

[Lillehamring]

12 hours ago, LinekersLugs said:

They won’t be in the top 8 in this league 

 

they are already 0-3 For the season 🤦‍♂️

Doesn't make them a bad side - especially not if you isolate their home form.

[fuchsntf]

16 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

But you have, you just don't realise it!  Without that passing and standing on the ball, you don't create the space to play the direct balls into.

 

To use a baseballing analogy - a pitcher will throw balls inside to a batter to then allow him to throw one outside, the batter panics and swings at something he shouldn't - the same happens here, we focus all the play in the middle and play slow, almost pedestrian, and then - bam - play the direct ball over the top,

Bobby Roberts & Davie Gibson would be proud…

Mat Gillies knew from the beginning…

[fuchsntf]

13 hours ago, sm1 said:

Absolutely beautiful and literally impossible to defend against. The pass from Ricky was amazing. We even cut open Liverpool several times in the first 20mins, with similar moves. The problem is we have either Ndidi or Praet at the end of them and both are poor finishers.

Yes but by November we will have both scoring 15 a season, Stephan M‘didi scoring 12+ a season. Nacho/Vardy 20+

KDH 15+, then others coming in with their share….

OR we have to have a misor  of defence,that we can afford 1–0, or 2-1s..

we might have to settle for the latter..but heyho, small steps build on quick movement, the club playing collective might well suprise their fans..

 

[Bluearmyfox28]

4 hours ago, moseeds said:

Great stuff, but glaring how much space the opposition give and their lack of pressing intensity which masks errors. Definitely wip in the right direction though. We've had a very easy championship start which has helped massively in giving players time to learn/train without falling back into 'bad behaviours'.

Definitely, I don’t think we’ve had such an easy start though. Coventry will be pushing for play off’s and any team managed by Neil Warnock isn’t going to be a push over.

[Dan LCFC]

5 hours ago, Dames said:

At the same time we've learnt the hard way that the only loser when it comes to putting pressure on Rudkin is the club.

 

Pulling stunts like putting 2 GKs on the bench isn't going to get him what he wants. If anything its going to be used as a stick to beat him with when Rudkin decides he needs to protect his position. 

I do agree - I rate Maresca so far and I like the fact he doesn't seem to tolerate this sort of rubbish, but this is fundamentally what is wrong with the club - we're relying on Maresca turning things around yet if he isn't going to suffer our fools then it will eventually go bang. He will take a route out of here if he can get it. It sounds dramatic but if you know you're going to be undermined then you couldn't really blame him either.

 

In an ideal world we get him the tools in and he guides us to promotion / security in the top flight. But he seems quite beaten down about things already. Maybe it's just his demeanour but I'm really not quite sure it is.

[Ginger_Filbert]

Really interesting that in the new behind the scenes Burnley documentary on sky, Kompany said that it takes 100-120 tactical meetings with the players for it to properly click. 
 

I really feel like we will come good October time, so picking up wins whilst still learning this early is a great sign. 

[DionDublinsThirdLeg]

All the Media hype around us is fuelling a lot of Huddersfield and Coventry fans into believing they 'Competed Well' with a Premier League side, when in reality, if you take Faes and KDH out of that side on Saturday, the rest of the 11 had a combined 22 League starts for us last season, that's nothing, just two games of appearances. That should really highlight just how much Maresca has been up against it in the early weeks. He's 4-5 players short of what he wants, which not only means he's not got the players for his system, but it also means we can't play Castagne/Daka/Souttar/Soumare etc, in fear of them getting injured and us being unable to move them out to bring others in. Combined with the fact he's lost his Captain, the one brought in to raise the standards and steady the ship, yet it's been a perfect start, 3 wins from 3, with a side devoid of confidence and experience. I'd go as far to guess that we've had more academy lads on the field against both Coventry and Huddersfield than they both had, again highlighting this myth about us being a 'Premier League' team. We're fielding multiple players who have never even played professionally at a level as high as this.

 

We've dropped 0 points, whilst Southampton and Leeds who are also going through the same process have dropped 2 and 5 respectively. Whilst you've got Ipswich and Plymouth, both with stability and confidence from promotion, dropping just 2 between them, whereas Sheffield Wednesday with no stability and a new manager, have suffered the same fate as the relegated sides, but with far less quality. The concern for me right now is that promotion may be taken out of Maresca's hands, because of a lack of activity. I worry about Ricardo, not only in his suitability for the role, but whether he can stay fit across a season. I worry about the lack of cover for Winks, given he too is a player with injury struggles. Then there's Doyle, and a lack of an alternative there besides Kristiansen who hasn't featured and may be sacrificed if we can't move others on in less demand. Where are out wide players who excel 1v1? Our attacking number 8's? A better option to Vardy?

 

The worries are not about the management of the team, or coaching, there's a visual improvement already. But they're going to be made a scapegoat for poor recruitment, the same way our top players like Barnes/Maddison/Soyuncu etc, were made scapegoats by fans because of poor management and coaching. 

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

Bobby Roberts & Davie Gibson would be proud…

Mat Gillies knew from the beginning…

As far as i know @davieG isn't yet convinced...

[HankMarvin]

7 hours ago, Dames said:

At the same time we've learnt the hard way that the only loser when it comes to putting pressure on Rudkin is the club.

 

Pulling stunts like putting 2 GKs on the bench isn't going to get him what he wants. If anything its going to be used as a stick to beat him with when Rudkin decides he needs to protect his position. 

You will eat those words when you watch Ward score a scissor kick 

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, DionDublinsThirdLeg said:

All the Media hype around us is fuelling a lot of Huddersfield and Coventry fans into believing they 'Competed Well' with a Premier League side, when in reality, if you take Faes and KDH out of that side on Saturday, the rest of the 11 had a combined 22 League starts for us last season, that's nothing, just two games of appearances. That should really highlight just how much Maresca has been up against it in the early weeks. He's 4-5 players short of what he wants, which not only means he's not got the players for his system, but it also means we can't play Castagne/Daka/Souttar/Soumare etc, in fear of them getting injured and us being unable to move them out to bring others in. Combined with the fact he's lost his Captain, the one brought in to raise the standards and steady the ship, yet it's been a perfect start, 3 wins from 3, with a side devoid of confidence and experience. I'd go as far to guess that we've had more academy lads on the field against both Coventry and Huddersfield than they both had, again highlighting this myth about us being a 'Premier League' team. We're fielding multiple players who have never even played professionally at a level as high as this.

 

We've dropped 0 points, whilst Southampton and Leeds who are also going through the same process have dropped 2 and 5 respectively. Whilst you've got Ipswich and Plymouth, both with stability and confidence from promotion, dropping just 2 between them, whereas Sheffield Wednesday with no stability and a new manager, have suffered the same fate as the relegated sides, but with far less quality. The concern for me right now is that promotion may be taken out of Maresca's hands, because of a lack of activity. I worry about Ricardo, not only in his suitability for the role, but whether he can stay fit across a season. I worry about the lack of cover for Winks, given he too is a player with injury struggles. Then there's Doyle, and a lack of an alternative there besides Kristiansen who hasn't featured and may be sacrificed if we can't move others on in less demand. Where are out wide players who excel 1v1? Our attacking number 8's? A better option to Vardy?

 

The worries are not about the management of the team, or coaching, there's a visual improvement already. But they're going to be made a scapegoat for poor recruitment, the same way our top players like Barnes/Maddison/Soyuncu etc, were made scapegoats by fans because of poor management and coaching. 

This is not true, certainly it's a huge exaggeration.  Granted they ended the season in this state, but as you said this is nothing like the team that ended the season.

By all accounts, the players have had something of a renaissance under Maresca and confidence is picking up all the time - exemplified by players like KDH who is showing a completely different attitude to last year.  The idea that 6 players have decided to stay is an indicator that the mood in the camp is excellent and there is a new confidence in the system and in themselves.

[Dames]

2 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I do agree - I rate Maresca so far and I like the fact he doesn't seem to tolerate this sort of rubbish, but this is fundamentally what is wrong with the club - we're relying on Maresca turning things around yet if he isn't going to suffer our fools then it will eventually go bang. He will take a route out of here if he can get it. It sounds dramatic but if you know you're going to be undermined then you couldn't really blame him either.

 

In an ideal world we get him the tools in and he guides us to promotion / security in the top flight. But he seems quite beaten down about things already. Maybe it's just his demeanour but I'm really not quite sure it is.

Tanner saying a few weeks ago that Rudkin ending up more powerful is what worries me about this. We really could have a top level manager on our hands but there is a good chance we are going to throw it away because our DOF is just so inept he couldn't give the manager want was required.

 

As for his demeanour I think he's pulling a few of Peps old tricks to try and get some movement on what he wants but that failed for Rodgers who had a lot more 'credit in the bank'.

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, DionDublinsThirdLeg said:

All the Media hype around us is fuelling a lot of Huddersfield and Coventry fans into believing they 'Competed Well' with a Premier League side, when in reality, if you take Faes and KDH out of that side on Saturday, the rest of the 11 had a combined 22 League starts for us last season, that's nothing, just two games of appearances. That should really highlight just how much Maresca has been up against it in the early weeks. He's 4-5 players short of what he wants, which not only means he's not got the players for his system, but it also means we can't play Castagne/Daka/Souttar/Soumare etc, in fear of them getting injured and us being unable to move them out to bring others in. Combined with the fact he's lost his Captain, the one brought in to raise the standards and steady the ship, yet it's been a perfect start, 3 wins from 3, with a side devoid of confidence and experience. I'd go as far to guess that we've had more academy lads on the field against both Coventry and Huddersfield than they both had, again highlighting this myth about us being a 'Premier League' team. We're fielding multiple players who have never even played professionally at a level as high as this.

 

We've dropped 0 points, whilst Southampton and Leeds who are also going through the same process have dropped 2 and 5 respectively. Whilst you've got Ipswich and Plymouth, both with stability and confidence from promotion, dropping just 2 between them, whereas Sheffield Wednesday with no stability and a new manager, have suffered the same fate as the relegated sides, but with far less quality. The concern for me right now is that promotion may be taken out of Maresca's hands, because of a lack of activity. I worry about Ricardo, not only in his suitability for the role, but whether he can stay fit across a season. I worry about the lack of cover for Winks, given he too is a player with injury struggles. Then there's Doyle, and a lack of an alternative there besides Kristiansen who hasn't featured and may be sacrificed if we can't move others on in less demand. Where are out wide players who excel 1v1? Our attacking number 8's? A better option to Vardy?

 

The worries are not about the management of the team, or coaching, there's a visual improvement already. But they're going to be made a scapegoat for poor recruitment, the same way our top players like Barnes/Maddison/Soyuncu etc, were made scapegoats by fans because of poor management and coaching. 

Luxury of riches, he chooses not to play players that would be walking into other teams in this league. He is hardly “up against it”. He is very fortunate to be able to leave those players out.

I think warnock said before the game we have a second 11 that would be very capable in this league.

 

“The first 11 had just 22 league starts for us last season if you take out KDH and Faes”

So Ricardo, Nacho, Vestergaurd, Winks, and Praet havnt shown they are capable premier league players in the past?

I think it’s far from a “myth” about us being a Premier league squad  and that we have one of the strongest squads to play in the Championship.

 

You paint a picture that suggests about 21 other team managers wouldn’t love to be in Maresca position. 

[Dan LCFC]

2 hours ago, Dames said:

Tanner saying a few weeks ago that Rudkin ending up more powerful is what worries me about this. We really could have a top level manager on our hands but there is a good chance we are going to throw it away because our DOF is just so inept he couldn't give the manager want was required.

 

As for his demeanour I think he's pulling a few of Peps old tricks to try and get some movement on what he wants but that failed for Rodgers who had a lot more 'credit in the bank'.

It's literally unbelievable how this can be the case. Said it in another thread but at this point you have to treat him like co-owner. He's under zero scrutiny for his own performance from the club and the fans have proven they won't get on his back either.

 

I think Maresca does eventually leave us for another club rather than be sacked - and I also don't think it'll be a club people could reluctantly accept losing somebody to either (aka not a top club).

Edited 14 August 2023 by Dan LCFC

[Ian Nacho]

My football IQ has definitely increased since Enzo has come in. 

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, Dames said:

Tanner saying a few weeks ago that Rudkin ending up more powerful is what worries me about this. We really could have a top level manager on our hands but there is a good chance we are going to throw it away because our DOF is just so inept he couldn't give the manager want was required.

 

As for his demeanour I think he's pulling a few of Peps old tricks to try and get some movement on what he wants but that failed for Rodgers who had a lot more 'credit in the bank'.

Why don't you just suspend your venom towards him and see where we're at by christmas?  I know it's hard, but something good feels like it's happening at the club right now, the players we've brought in/are looking at feel like the players Enzo wants - maybe things aren't as bad as you believe?

 

 

[Dames]

8 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

Why don't you just suspend your venom towards him and see where we're at by christmas?  I know it's hard, but something good feels like it's happening at the club right now, the players we've brought in/are looking at feel like the players Enzo wants - maybe things aren't as bad as you believe?

 

 

Enzo wants 4 more players and its taken Rudkin over 2 months to sign 5. We’ll see in 2 weeks if he can do it but i’m very skeptical. Especially with so many to shift on still too.
 

The manager is already pulling stunts like putting 2 gks on the bench and he’s talking a lot in the media about what he needs, whilst he’s had a great start with results is he going to be able to keep it up if he doesnt get what he wants and how long is he going to be willing to tolerate not being given what he was promised?