st albans fox Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 Just now, Foxdiamond said: If this proves to be the motive this is just the sort of act that arouses more fear in western countries and loses more sympathy for people seen to be associated with rightly or wrongly BBC are saying that French police quoted man arrested shouted ‘allahhu Akbar’ . Seems clear from that. Not sure it does lose sympathy in general - the images from Gaza are truly awful and I assume it’s accepted that some people will be unable to cope and this is the consequence.
Foxdiamond Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 13 minutes ago, st albans fox said: BBC are saying that French police quoted man arrested shouted ‘allahhu Akbar’ . Seems clear from that. Not sure it does lose sympathy in general - the images from Gaza are truly awful and I assume it’s accepted that some people will be unable to cope and this is the consequence. Wonder what the level of acceptance will be in Arras today
Robo61 Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 Caz 1 hour ago, st albans fox said: I understand it - bbc journalists have tweeted the term before in other incidents and claim that this was on their personal SM accounts rather than official bbc ones. I would assume that a bbc journalist wanting to retain objectivity shouldn’t have a personal SM account ?? There's a clear difference between the BBC showing objectively and journalists posting on their SM accounts. Never the less BBC News Journalists have been given clear guidelines in which they must adhere, as we all know from the GL (Not a News Journalist) affair. 1
Mickyblueeyes Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 13 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: I don't see them partying in the streets around the world celebrating the murder of men women and children though. Just not correct. Something about this conflict which brings out the worse in both sides. From Palestinian dancing in the streets of Ramallah, to a group of Israelis watching bombings of Palestinians from beach chairs and cheering. There’s always been a tendency to “celebrate” the pain of the other. A quick check and it’s the same from both sides this time. I mean the Israeli citizen on TikTok making a viral video poking fun at the Gazans that he happened to have Electricity and water was particularly poor taste as one of the examples from the other side. It’s a complex dispute and very hard to truly throw a hat on the proper good guys (when considering Palestinians and Israelies, not Hamas). It’s gone too far for that. 1
Lionator Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 3 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said: It sounds great and would be a perfect step but with the politics in the Middle East, this could actually cause them more problems in the long term. The criticism the UAE got for normalisation would be minuscule compared to Iran and possibly Qatar’s reaction to Saudi and Israel normalising relationships. But Saudi and Qatar are friends again too? Anything is possible. These links generate stability, and I think that's what the Saudi's under the new crown prince want.
Popular Post bmt Posted 13 October 2023 Popular Post Posted 13 October 2023 4 hours ago, Robo61 said: I don't hear anyone here or elsewhere saying that they don't think it is terrorism. An organisatiuon choosing not to say it is not the same as trherm not thinking it. This has been a long held policy of the BBC not only as part of their committment to objective reporting but to also to mitigate the risks their reporters take every day to ensure we continue to recieve live reports from war zones all around the world. I wrote my thesis on defining terrorism. One of the issues is that it is very hard to have an objective definition of terrorism which is wide enough to capture what the West generally wants to as terrorism without also capturing certain Western institutions. Because of that, terrorism has to be defined subjectively and for that reason the BBC can't use the word without being subjective. 6
bmt Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 3 hours ago, st albans fox said: Pretty sure that they won’t come in on the ground tomorrow - you wouldn’t give your enemy (this is war between Israel and Hamas) specific notice of your arrival I read that israel are intent on destroying the tunnel structure below ground as best they can because that’s where Hamas will likely be fighting from. That will involve even heavier bombing than seen this week. been doing some reading up on the water and power situation in Gaza. I think the power is the main issue for water supply - Israel itself is not the main supplier of water in Gaza. Israel’s judgement is that there should have been sufficient diesel in Gaza to enable the electricity to have stayed on for at least ten days. The fact that it’s not means that either a) it’s been put aside to keep generators on at medical facilities b) Hamas have taken it for their own power needs Or that their intelligence isn't as good as they thought - which Saturday's events might support.
Mickyblueeyes Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 The President of Israel - just before an apparent ground offensive. 1 1
TJQuik Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 7 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: The President of Israel - just before an apparent ground offensive. Does the absolute insanity and hypocrisy in that statement need to be pointed out? 2
st albans fox Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 45 minutes ago, bmt said: Or that their intelligence isn't as good as they thought - which Saturday's events might support. That’s not intel on that level though Israel blockades Gaza and allows in supplies based on agreements with Hamas (yes they did speak on a civil level ) there would be arrangements of diesel deliveries based on back up supplies. It would be known that the power plant in Gaza would have around ten days back up supply 1
TJQuik Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 7 hours ago, CosbehFox said: I take you’ve never seen the annual March of Flags? A celebration of Israel’s victory in the six day war. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/18/israeli-nationalists-march-to-celebrate-capture-of-east-jerusalem Includes utter nut jobs chanting ‘death to all Arabs’ But they're supposed to be morally superior to the side who are kept in a giant open air prison which can have any of its buildings reduced to rubble at a moment's notice and have all their supplies completely cut off. 2
LCFCJohn Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 I wonder if anyone who is into their history/religion who doesn’t have entrenched views either way can summarise the history or the geographical area now Israel. Clearly this long running conflict is a result of two groups feeling that the area is rightfully theirs. The recent history (since the creation of the modern state of Israel) is clear in the last century. Some of what you read suggests Jewish communities simply took over the area from Islam/Arabs (?) groups but my knowledge would be that the area incorporating areas such at Jerusalem and Bethlehem are historically linked to Jews back as far as the time of the bible thousands of years ago. It also seems that attempts to split the state were rejected by the Palestinian side in the last century. I come from a neutral viewpoint seeing both sides at committing atrocities. I don’t think Hamas reflect the Palestinian people or the Israeli government reflect the people of their country. I just find I’m not getting my head around the history of it all in the same way as the Russia/Ukraine/Soviet Union stuff! N.b or I just can’t be bothered reading loads of historical stuff due to currently having covid brain!
st albans fox Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 6 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said: I wonder if anyone who is into their history/religion who doesn’t have entrenched views either way can summarise the history or the geographical area now Israel. Clearly this long running conflict is a result of two groups feeling that the area is rightfully theirs. The recent history (since the creation of the modern state of Israel) is clear in the last century. Some of what you read suggests Jewish communities simply took over the area from Islam/Arabs (?) groups but my knowledge would be that the area incorporating areas such at Jerusalem and Bethlehem are historically linked to Jews back as far as the time of the bible thousands of years ago. It also seems that attempts to split the state were rejected by the Palestinian side in the last century. I come from a neutral viewpoint seeing both sides at committing atrocities. I don’t think Hamas reflect the Palestinian people or the Israeli government reflect the people of their country. I just find I’m not getting my head around the history of it all in the same way as the Russia/Ukraine/Soviet Union stuff! N.b or I just can’t be bothered reading loads of historical stuff due to currently having covid brain! How far back do you want to go ? the Judea popular people’s front ?
StanSP Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 5 hours ago, MPH said: Not sure 24 hrs notice is enough time to pack up and leave for 1.1 m people.. might be a case of “ we’ve wondered in the wilderness before so you can to”. Yeah after obliterating travel routes and transfer options, and hammering down rockets across the the area, the notice is pretty redundant. The cynical part of me is saying that Israel is moving them all south so they can just continue to rain down their artillery and missiles and kill more of them. 2
SpacedX Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67099574 'Putin is ready to take advantage of an Israeli-Gaza war'
LCFCCHRIS Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 (edited) They simply have to invade imo. If a terror driven government killed thousands of uk citizens I’m sure the vast majority in those county would support a ground invasion into said hypothetical country / territory where the fighters are situated. Invade yes but invade with the mindset of avoiding civilian casualties. Edited 13 October 2023 by LCFCCHRIS 1
MPH Posted 13 October 2023 Author Posted 13 October 2023 12 minutes ago, StanSP said: Yeah after obliterating travel routes and transfer options, and hammering down rockets across the the area, the notice is pretty redundant. The cynical part of me is saying that Israel is moving them all south so they can just continue to rain down their artillery and missiles and kill more of them. im concerned about wether they may try and use it to grab more land. Hopefulky though it’s just to discover and work on more of the tunnel network…
st albans fox Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 8 minutes ago, StanSP said: Yeah after obliterating travel routes and transfer options, and hammering down rockets across the the area, the notice is pretty redundant. The cynical part of me is saying that Israel is moving them all south so they can just continue to rain down their artillery and missiles and kill more of them. It’s not that sunil - they are probably going to drop bunker bombs to try and destroy Hamas’ tunnel network and they want to get as many civilians out of the north as they can because collateral damage will be enormous compared to what we’ve seen thus far when these things are dropped. I believe that the tunnels are more concentrated in the north of Gaza. id be surprised if this all starts tomorrow but if they have a timetable that they want to stick to them maybe it will. if they were deliberately bombing civilians then the death toll from 6000 missiles and rockets already dropped would be way more than 1800. as pointed out a few days ago, there is a difference between targeting civilians and not being that careful about civilian casualties. (that’s not me saying this is the IDF policy )
st albans fox Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 Just now, MPH said: im concerned about wether they may try and use it to grab more land. Hopefulky though it’s just to discover and work on more of the tunnel network… I’m pretty sure that Israel doesn’t want any of Gaza. 2
StanSP Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 4 minutes ago, st albans fox said: I’m pretty sure that Israel doesn’t want any of Gaza. I thought this is what it all boils down to? Generations of battling for territory? 3
MPH Posted 13 October 2023 Author Posted 13 October 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, st albans fox said: I’m pretty sure that Israel doesn’t want any of Gaza. um…. This is a joke right? other than what Stan just said, it’s possible they want to create a wider zone to offer more protection from further missile attacks Edited 13 October 2023 by MPH 3
StanSP Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 Reports of Israel defence minister (?) allowing Israeli settlers to be armed and target innocent Palestinian civilians. There's footage on X but I have no way of finding out if it is legit from today (as it states) or if its anything to do with this conflict.
MPH Posted 13 October 2023 Author Posted 13 October 2023 29 minutes ago, StanSP said: Reports of Israel defence minister (?) allowing Israeli settlers to be armed and target innocent Palestinian civilians. There's footage on X but I have no way of finding out if it is legit from today (as it states) or if its anything to do with this conflict. I can see mass arming of civilians in the kibbutz as being something they would do. id like to think there would be some training and regulations at least though.. and guidelines
Parafox Posted 13 October 2023 Posted 13 October 2023 37 minutes ago, MPH said: I can see mass arming of civilians in the kibbutz as being something they would do. id like to think there would be some training and regulations at least though.. and guidelines Yeah. Even a kibbutz has to observe health and safety
MPH Posted 13 October 2023 Author Posted 13 October 2023 3 minutes ago, Parafox said: Yeah. Even a kibbutz has to observe health and safety I kind of meant, they need to know how to use the gun if you're going to give it to them.. regulations... you cant just keep a rocket launcher under your bed and guidelines... no random gun firing parties like in Saudi Arabia..
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