Israeli and Palestinian conflict

[Parafox]

1 minute ago, MPH said:

 

 

I kind of meant, they need to know how to use the gun if you're going to give it to them.. regulations... you cant just keep a rocket launcher under your bed and guidelines... no random gun firing parties like in Saudi Arabia..

 

I knew what you were getting at but it just struck me as amusing in the way you worded it.

 

My brother used to keep a rocket launcher under his bed. And a tank and a jeep and several guns. And a bearded bloke whose funny eyes would follow you around the room.

 

Good old Action Man

[Munshi]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

Yeah after obliterating travel routes and transfer options, and hammering down rockets across the the area, the notice is pretty redundant.

 

The cynical part of me is saying that Israel is moving them all south so they can just continue to rain down their artillery and missiles and kill more of them. 

 

This is exactly what they’ve just done. Told them all to move south to stay safe and given them a ‘safe route’ and then bombed the shit out of that exact route. 

 

Vile people.

[Wymsey]

@Mark, wrong forum area for this?..

 

Edit: Why did the sub-forum shut, especially after good members feedback on the idea?

Edited 13 October 2023 by Wymsey

[Zear0]

Lasted longer than I thought! Appreciate the effort in giving it a go though. 

[MPH]

 

Thank you for keeping the thread open, Mark even if the sub forum isnt!

[Mickyblueeyes]

 

What is going with this report. Now CNN backtracking. Seems incredibly weird given the amount of reports. It was Biden earlier in the week who confirmed, didn’t confirm. 

[AS78UK]

Glad the FA took a neutral stance on this conflict.   Genuinely think the UK government needs to do shift to a more similar stance.   

[Trav Le Bleu]

Neatly side-stepped by Have I Got News For You. Acknowledged that it happened and that, rightly, it wasn't going to be mentioned. To have not even mentioned it would been glaringly obvious in its omission.

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

 

Thank you for keeping the thread open, Mark even if the sub forum isnt!

I notice the Ukraine thread isn't. Was that what got the sub forum closed?

[Thefox81]

18 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I notice the Ukraine thread isn't. Was that what got the sub forum closed?

Ukraine thread is still open its on page 2. Just nobody has posted in it for 3 days.

[MPH]

36 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I notice the Ukraine thread isn't. Was that what got the sub forum closed?

 

17 minutes ago, Thefox81 said:

Ukraine thread is still open its on page 2. Just nobody has posted in it for 3 days.

 

it was posted In today but yeah it must have been what got the sub forum closed as it appears some posts were deleted

[StanSP]

 

 

[Jattdogg]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

 

 

I'm sure he is just as hurt about the israelis who died too.  Lives are important  and precious no matter your background or what trauma is inflicted by any person or group.

 

People need to take back the planet from these crazy leaders in almost every country  who seek to divide us all and enrich themselves or their "cause".

 

We all have a lot more in common then we think.  Love, well being, food and shelter it's basic necessities we all seek and should have. Probably missing a few important things but you get my point.

 

I sound like some sort of idiot but i have no solutions other than love and respect for all right now.

 

Can't we all just get along as they say.

 

Sigh.

 

 

 

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

5 hours ago, Munshi said:

This is exactly what they’ve just done. Told them all to move south to stay safe and given them a ‘safe route’ and then bombed the shit out of that exact route. 

 

Vile people.

This is just murder. To do that and claim it’s “collateral” as part of war is insanity. Someone has got to be incredibly thick to claim an army which tells people of a “safe route” and then bombs said route is acting appropriately (won’t even say Humanely as that isn’t a word you can associate with the acts so far of the IDF).  Either they have something wrong with them and needs to visit a shrink or they’re taking the piss. This is, without debate, an act of genocide in every sense of the word. 
 

The good thing is, social media which has been relentless this past week has shown good people of all races and faith/no faith coming out and speaking up about this “campaign”. You’ll still get the odd idiot supporting such acts. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

I’ve never understood people who take sides in this conflict honestly, Hamas are ****ing vile and so is the state of Israel

[MPH]

53 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I’ve never understood people who take sides in this conflict honestly, Hamas are ****ing vile and so is the state of Israel

 

well you might have family of friends on one side, to be fair.

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, StanSP said:

Reports of Israel defence minister (?) allowing Israeli settlers to be armed and target innocent Palestinian civilians. There's footage on X but I have no way of finding out if it is legit from today (as it states) or if its anything to do with this conflict. 

Settlers are almost always armed and ready to defend themselves and their homes, it rather comes with the territory of stealing land from your enemies.

[Jon the Hat]

10 hours ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

They simply have to invade imo. If a terror driven government killed thousands of uk citizens I’m sure the vast majority in those county would support a ground invasion into said hypothetical country / territory where the fighters are situated. Invade yes but invade with the mindset of avoiding civilian casualties. 

If you understand the mindset of the Jewish / Israeli people this is 100% true.  They simply cannot allow this to go unpunished.  They must destroy Hamas.  It simply is not tenable to have such a dangerous enemy who is sworn to destroy you on your border.  Is this an god awful situation?  Yes.  Are tens of thousands of innocents going to die?  I fear so.  I just don't see another way out.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

 

well you might have family of friends on one side, to be fair.

That's a great emotive and understandable reason to pick a side, but it's not necessarily logical, of course.

 

11 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Settlers are almost always armed and ready to defend themselves and their homes, it rather comes with the territory of stealing land from your enemies.

Quite right.

 

And doesn't that show how little we've actually developed as a species, despite all our technological development.

 

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

If you understand the mindset of the Jewish / Israeli people this is 100% true.  They simply cannot allow this to go unpunished.  They must destroy Hamas.  It simply is not tenable to have such a dangerous enemy who is sworn to destroy you on your border.  Is this an god awful situation?  Yes.  Are tens of thousands of innocents going to die?  I fear so.  I just don't see another way out.

If they really believe this to be true (and I can believe it), then they have to be ready for other members of our species to (rightly) judge them for taking so many innocent lives, even if they "really" think there's no other choice but to do so. Killing someone even without intent, except in the very most direct and personal self defence (which is a matter of individuals, not states) is, or should be,  still a criminal act.

Edited 14 October 2023 by leicsmac

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

That's a great emotive and understandable reason to pick a side, but it's not necessarily logical, of course.

 

Quite right.

 

And doesn't that show how little we've actually developed as a species, despite all our technological development.

 

If they really believe this to be true (and I can believe it), then they have to be ready for other members of our species to (rightly) judge them for taking so many innocent lives, even if they "really" think there's no other choice but to do so. Killing someone even without intent, except in the very most direct and personal self defence (which is a matter of individuals, not states) is, or should be,  still a criminal act.

Except a state also has the right to defend itself, and you cannot say Israel hasn’t been attacked in the most violent way.  
Hamas continues to fire rockets, Israel bombs very precisely where the rockets were fired from, and civilians die because Hamas chose to deliberately fire from civilian sites.  That is on Hamas.

[westernpark]

5 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I’ve never understood people who take sides in this conflict honestly, Hamas are ****ing vile and so is the state of Israel

You may consider the actions of Israel’s government to be vile but I can’t agree with your wording condemning the whole state of Israel.

[Blarmy]

7 hours ago, Jattdogg said:

I'm sure he is just as hurt about the israelis who died too.  Lives are important  and precious no matter your background or what trauma is inflicted by any person or group.

 

People need to take back the planet from these crazy leaders in almost every country  who seek to divide us all and enrich themselves or their "cause".

 

We all have a lot more in common then we think.  Love, well being, food and shelter it's basic necessities we all seek and should have. Probably missing a few important things but you get my point.

 

I sound like some sort of idiot but i have no solutions other than love and respect for all right now.

 

Can't we all just get along as they say.

 

Sigh.

 

 

 

 

This is firmly what I believe too. < 1% of the global population wreck everything for everyone else. 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Except a state also has the right to defend itself, and you cannot say Israel hasn’t been attacked in the most violent way.  
Hamas continues to fire rockets, Israel bombs very precisely where the rockets were fired from, and civilians die because Hamas chose to deliberately fire from civilian sites.  That is on Hamas.

... not entirely sure about the "very precisely" part given recent events, but let's assume this is true too...

 

... then I'm guessing you believe Israel bears no responsibility whatsoever for the deaths of innocent people, despite actually being the party that pulled the trigger on the weapon that ended their lives? Is there any other situation at all now or historically where that is also believed to be the case, because that just seems like an excuse for them to kill civilians as they see fit and then just say they did their best?

 

(The only example I can think of is World War II and the area bombing used then, but that was a less accurate era for such things and quite honestly I'm pretty sure that fell under the description of a war crime anyway.)

Edited 14 October 2023 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

49 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

This is firmly what I believe too. < 1% of the global population wreck everything for everyone else. 

That they do.

 

And if that doesn't change pretty soon, the consequences may become much more dire than they are already.

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Except a state also has the right to defend itself, and you cannot say Israel hasn’t been attacked in the most violent way.  
Hamas continues to fire rockets, Israel bombs very precisely where the rockets were fired from, and civilians die because Hamas chose to deliberately fire from civilian sites.  That is on Hamas.

Honestly how would you feel if somebody was firing rockets out of your neighbourhood? Hamas got powerful through essentially a coup d’etat in Palestinean territories. They majority of the population are utterly powerless.