LCFC Fans Consultative Committee Meeting 06/09/23 Minutes

[Voll Blau]

10 minutes ago, Nalis said:

For the supporter numbers they get the Scottish scene is excellent

It works because football in Scotland is still seen as something to be enjoyed, and fans get that. In England, we let the sanitised, corporate vision of football wash over us like it should have always been that way.

 

Add in that clubs in Scotland realise they need those kind of fans to survive and it provides could conditions for active support to thrive.

[los dedos]

I genuinely believe the fans are still about to make a noise and happily join in with the Tifo . But after the move from Fibert Street. 

The new Kop was half filled with the South Stand dullards .Even at the Old ground you would get the odd song out of the East stand and lower members/main stand  but never them up there.

I've sat in most areas of the ground and there's always the old koppites dotted around trying to sing, add to that SK1,L1 and P blocks .

If only there was somewhere we all could sit/ stand make an atmosphere and happily join in with  Tifos 

 

[Dan]

18 hours ago, jammie82uk said:

Can’t believe people are actually moaning about this, 

 

• Clap Banners - The Club to look at how these are distributed, including an option of having them in designated collection points for supporters to collect, rather than them being handed out as supporters enter the turnstiles.

 

• South Stand TIFO Displays - Concerns around suporters sitting in bottom 10 rows having views blocked as players walk out. Can the displays be in another area of the ground? Supporters have missed key occasions (Champions League, season openers etc).

This is our 'Kop' as well. Scary hour.

[Paninistickers]

I never get what self respecting pensioner would wanna sit in the kop, unless they enjoy a sing song and Argy bargy.

 

It's a very leicester trait tho. The cheap seats are there and they want the cheapest deal, even if it means sitting in misery

[Freeman's Wharfer]

Wow.

 

@Foxes_Trust, I was really hoping that you’d make a difference in holding the club to account on the failures of last season. Unfortunately, I now have to say, having seen this as the output of where this was supposedly discussed, you’re a disgrace.
 

You’re not fit for purpose, you’re not even getting close to achieving your stated aims on your site around fan representation, and at this point you’re part of the problem rather than the solution.

 

Clearly you have no will to drive any change. You have become a social club - pumping out mundane match reports and travel guidance on your website rather than communicating on anything meaningful. You have your privileged access and protecting this is quite clearly your only concern.

 

You’re defunct.

[Foxes_Trust]

5 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Wow.

 

@Foxes_Trust, I was really hoping that you’d make a difference in holding the club to account on the failures of last season. Unfortunately, I now have to say, having seen this as the output of where this was supposedly discussed, you’re a disgrace.
 

You’re not fit for purpose, you’re not even getting close to achieving your stated aims on your site around fan representation, and at this point you’re part of the problem rather than the solution.

 

Clearly you have no will to drive any change. You have become a social club - pumping out mundane match reports and travel guidance on your website rather than communicating on anything meaningful. You have your privileged access and protecting this is quite clearly your only concern.

 

You’re defunct.

The minutes of the FCC meetings are written and published by the club, those attending cannot influence what the club choose to include in the minutes and the one sentence under "football operations" is extremely brief and does not reflect the amount of time taken on the discussion during the meeting. Now we have seen these minutes, we can now decide what we will subsequently publish.

[Nod.E]

19 hours ago, Golden Fox said:

It really frustrates me reading through the minutes that it feels like a cosy club of middle class season ticket holders who want to make things better for themselves with their sanitised matchday experience of having a a beer in the bar beforehand, getting food and drink from the concourse and not having to put up with the rabble (fan behaviour and drug taking both mentioned) - and they are wasting the opportunity of engagement with the club - which the club are only too happy to do knowing it is a tick box exercise for them.

 

The most frustrating thing for me is availability of tickets. I don't want to pay through the nose for membership for a chance of tickets, but the club are doing nothing to enable more people to go.

 

This was raised, with a lame response that there are risks general sale could go to away fans - please call the club out on this BS. Its a lame excuse that isn't challenged when the real reason is the club want to maximise profits - getting more from memberships and paying less for stewards. But everybody goes away happy as the club have given an answer and the FoxesTrust are likely season ticket holders who couldn't care less whether other people can get a chance to go or not.

 

I've thought that the criticism of the Trust on here has been a bit unfair, but they really aren't looking out for the supporter base or the real issues people have or extracting proper answers from the club. Its a very disappointing read.

I'm the first person to criticise the club and the Trust, but come on.

 

'Pay through the nose'? It's 32 quid, which today is nothing. You'd be close to paying that on refreshments for two in the ground.

 

Pay the nominal fee and you get to go. Problem solved.

[Golden Fox]

2 hours ago, Nod.E said:

I'm the first person to criticise the club and the Trust, but come on.

 

'Pay through the nose'? It's 32 quid, which today is nothing. You'd be close to paying that on refreshments for two in the ground.

 

Pay the nominal fee and you get to go. Problem solved.

£32 is not a nominal fee - particularly with a family, so you're looking at paying £100 for nothing. (but the ability to pay the club more). Its a con and is one of the aspects of the ticketing approach the pisses me off the most. 

 

I remember when membership was £3 which was a nominal fee, but its something the club have put up and up because they can.

 

The attitude of people that are happy to pay this club tax is how we have got here. But this is part of the pricing out of lower income supporters, but that doesn't seem an issue for the Trust, so no push back on this at all. 

 

[FoxesTez]

7 hours ago, Foxes_Trust said:

The minutes of the FCC meetings are written and published by the club, those attending cannot influence what the club choose to include in the minutes and the one sentence under "football operations" is extremely brief and does not reflect the amount of time taken on the discussion during the meeting. Now we have seen these minutes, we can now decide what we will subsequently publish.

You cannot influence what the club choose to include in their minutes but you can publish your own full record of them. Waiting to see the club’s minutes before deciding what you ‘will subsequently publish’ is exactly the reason people are taking issue with the Trust and what it should stand for. Treading on egg shells with the club and a clear lack of transparency. 

[Paninistickers]

16 minutes ago, Golden Fox said:

£32 is not a nominal fee - particularly with a family, so you're looking at paying £100 for nothing. (but the ability to pay the club more). Its a con and is one of the aspects of the ticketing approach the pisses me off the most. 

 

I remember when membership was £3 which was a nominal fee, but its something the club have put up and up because they can.

 

The attitude of people that are happy to pay this club tax is how we have got here. But this is part of the pricing out of lower income supporters, but that doesn't seem an issue for the Trust, so no push back on this at all. 

 

Absolutely correct. Nominal fee is a fiver. Maybe all supporters, even STs and permanently non attending, could be encouraged to be a 'card carrying member'....a thoughtful club could even attribute a token 1 share for the membership, just so we could all say we part own the club. 

 

Membership could/should include access to fixes hub too. 

 

Yup yup, I'm not business naive. It'd affect revenues for sure. But City are currently on a mission to extract and control 35000 people as much as they can. A cheaper,.more inclusive plan could potentially involve 70000 people and longer term l, that has much more revenue potential (not least it adds to the club valuation) 

[UniFox21]

8 hours ago, Foxes_Trust said:

The minutes of the FCC meetings are written and published by the club, those attending cannot influence what the club choose to include in the minutes and the one sentence under "football operations" is extremely brief and does not reflect the amount of time taken on the discussion during the meeting. Now we have seen these minutes, we can now decide what we will subsequently publish.

Why do you need to wait for the club to publish their minutes prior to yours? If you were both at the same meeting, the minutes will be similar as the same items are discussed, so why is the wait needed? 

 

Are you concerned about upsetting the club or is there a certain rule you can't publish minutes until the club's have been distributed?

[Nod.E]

42 minutes ago, Golden Fox said:

£32 is not a nominal fee - particularly with a family, so you're looking at paying £100 for nothing. (but the ability to pay the club more). Its a con and is one of the aspects of the ticketing approach the pisses me off the most. 

 

I remember when membership was £3 which was a nominal fee, but its something the club have put up and up because they can.

 

The attitude of people that are happy to pay this club tax is how we have got here. But this is part of the pricing out of lower income supporters, but that doesn't seem an issue for the Trust, so no push back on this at all. 

 

But at the same time the club has hardly increased the pricing of tickets and season tickets in the context of rising costs everywhere.

 

Sorry, but going to watch football at a high level costs money.

[Daggers]

22 hours ago, Lako42 said:

That load of old shit took a month to publish. 

 

Embarrassing 

Maybe if more people stopped going and withheld their cash KPFC would actually change things for the better 

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, Nod.E said:

I'm the first person to criticise the club and the Trust, but come on.

 

'Pay through the nose'? It's 32 quid, which today is nothing. You'd be close to paying that on refreshments for two in the ground.

 

Pay the nominal fee and you get to go. Problem solved.

...paying the nominal fee does not get him or  his friends into the ground where they will have seating together!!!

  Tickets not going on general sale comes back to capacity and we are losing money hand over fist not increasing the size of the ground and encouraging new supporters to the club.

  Foxes Trust really are not fit for purpose, they do need to have a dialogue and a rapport with the club, but they also need to call them out on certain things, that they see as detrimental to the supporters and their matchday experiences. 

  

[guest123]

14 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

I never get what self respecting pensioner would wanna sit in the kop, unless they enjoy a sing song and Argy bargy.

 

It's a very leicester trait tho. The cheap seats are there and they want the cheapest deal, even if it means sitting in misery

the kop has been crap ever since we moved there, i really don't get why people keep holding on to thinking it will ever get back to like filbert street in the bottom corner next to the away fans. it's the kop in name only and always has been. the fact it's so far from the away fans will always be the problem

[Golden Fox]

6 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

But at the same time the club has hardly increased the pricing of tickets and season tickets in the context of rising costs everywhere.

 

Sorry, but going to watch football at a high level costs money.

So as someone that lives away from Leicester with a family and can only get to a few games - I have to subsidise season tickets - which I can't buy myself as there is a waiting list.

 

The last game I went to, I was shocked at the atmosphere, the lack of engagement from fans and the average age of our supporter base. It was clear there were plenty of people who go just because they do - they have their season tickets and aren't giving them up, but weren't particularly excited to be going. It was very apathetic. If you're telling me I'm subsidising these people, you're really going to get me angry.

 

My solution would be firstly to crack on with the new stand, but then to be more creative. I'm aware of the economics that there is high demand and fixed capacity, which enables the price to be pushed up, but its not the long term solution for the sole club in a a county of 700,000 people. Cap season tickets - and then to have more packages of half season tickets or third season tickets or quarter season tickets and cap those. Carve up the games into those packages, and make them available to more fans. I'd happily pay for a partial season ticket - where I wouldn't be having to commit to a season ticket  but I would have knowledge of what games I would be getting to and what I was getting for my money. Doing this could increase the regular support four or five times, and by limiting the games people can go to, make it more of an event for these people and improve the atmosphere.

 

The club is a community asset and should see itself in that way and explore the options to be that - not be content to to be there for the minority. But as the minutes from the forum show, the Trust is this minority, so are feeding back to the club that the supporter base is happy with the situation.

[Paninistickers]

35 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

But at the same time the club has hardly increased the pricing of tickets and season tickets in the context of rising costs everywhere.

 

Sorry, but going to watch football at a high level costs money.

Vincent Kompany disproved that theory in his master's dissertation. 

 

The money spinner in football are the broadcast rights. The crowds are an integral part to creating that broadcast value. Cheaper tickets = more fans = less sanitised = more atmosphere

 

City appear to have taken a business decision to concentrate on holding what they have. 35k who more or less,.turn up out of habit. I include myself in that. It's an incorrect business decision . City should actively pursue involving more people outside of their core

[Nod.E]

6 minutes ago, Golden Fox said:

So as someone that lives away from Leicester with a family and can only get to a few games - I have to subsidise season tickets - which I can't buy myself as there is a waiting list.

 

The last game I went to, I was shocked at the atmosphere, the lack of engagement from fans and the average age of our supporter base. It was clear there were plenty of people who go just because they do - they have their season tickets and aren't giving them up, but weren't particularly excited to be going. It was very apathetic. If you're telling me I'm subsidising these people, you're really going to get me angry.

 

My solution would be firstly to crack on with the new stand, but then to be more creative. I'm aware of the economics that there is high demand and fixed capacity, which enables the price to be pushed up, but its not the long term solution for the sole club in a a county of 700,000 people. Cap season tickets - and then to have more packages of half season tickets or third season tickets or quarter season tickets and cap those. Carve up the games into those packages, and make them available to more fans. I'd happily pay for a partial season ticket - where I wouldn't be having to commit to a season ticket  but I would have knowledge of what games I would be getting to and what I was getting for my money. Doing this could increase the regular support four or five times, and by limiting the games people can go to, make it more of an event for these people and improve the atmosphere.

 

The club is a community asset and should see itself in that way and explore the options to be that - not be content to to be there for the minority. But as the minutes from the forum show, the Trust is this minority, so are feeding back to the club that the supporter base is happy with the situation.

The club has no interest in being fair, I'd tend to agree. But why would they, and when has football, or life for that matter, ever been fair? Why would the club forfeit the guaranteed income of season tickets for the benefit of fan experience for infrequent visitors. Like it or not that makes no business sense.

 

I speak as someone who also doesn't live in Leicester. It takes me two hours to get to games, but I pay for the membership and get down when I can. 

 

Your points on the improved atmosphere that could be achieved with better ticketing structure are valid, but it doesn't take a discussion on ticketing to realise the club couldn't care less about the atmosphere generated in the ground. In fact any care they do have is to control it.

 

My point is you're fighting a losing battle, so don't do yourself out of games because you're too proud to pay for a fee you don't agree with. You can afford £100. It you couldn't, you wouldn't entertain the travel and match tickets in the first place. Life's too short.

[Nod.E]

4 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Vincent Kompany disproved that theory in his master's dissertation. 

 

The money spinner in football are the broadcast rights. The crowds are an integral part to creating that broadcast value. Cheaper tickets = more fans = less sanitised = more atmosphere

 

City appear to have taken a business decision to concentrate on holding what they have. 35k who more or less,.turn up out of habit. I include myself in that. It's an incorrect business decision . City should actively pursue involving more people outside of their core

Okay, but more atmosphere doesn't equal increased broadcast rights.

 

I guess you could argue it indirectly does, but it's very indirect and a bit of a stretch to argue better support leads to more points which elevates the club status and in turn increases broadcast revenue.

 

While STs aren't the money spinner that broadcast rights are, show me a PL side (I know we're not that this season), that foregoes it.

[Bert]

20 minutes ago, Golden Fox said:

So as someone that lives away from Leicester with a family and can only get to a few games - I have to subsidise season tickets - which I can't buy myself as there is a waiting list.

 

The last game I went to, I was shocked at the atmosphere, the lack of engagement from fans and the average age of our supporter base. It was clear there were plenty of people who go just because they do - they have their season tickets and aren't giving them up, but weren't particularly excited to be going. It was very apathetic. If you're telling me I'm subsidising these people, you're really going to get me angry.

 

My solution would be firstly to crack on with the new stand, but then to be more creative. I'm aware of the economics that there is high demand and fixed capacity, which enables the price to be pushed up, but its not the long term solution for the sole club in a a county of 700,000 people. Cap season tickets - and then to have more packages of half season tickets or third season tickets or quarter season tickets and cap those. Carve up the games into those packages, and make them available to more fans. I'd happily pay for a partial season ticket - where I wouldn't be having to commit to a season ticket  but I would have knowledge of what games I would be getting to and what I was getting for my money. Doing this could increase the regular support four or five times, and by limiting the games people can go to, make it more of an event for these people and improve the atmosphere.

 

The club is a community asset and should see itself in that way and explore the options to be that - not be content to to be there for the minority. But as the minutes from the forum show, the Trust is this minority, so are feeding back to the club that the supporter base is happy with the situation.

Season tickets are capped? Every single game this season has made members sale, therefore you will be easily able to pick and choose the games you want to go to. And if my memory serves me correct a membership for this season was only £32? 

 

[Golden Fox]

14 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

The club has no interest in being fair, I'd tend to agree. But why would they, and when has football, or life for that matter, ever been fair? Why would the club forfeit the guaranteed income of season tickets for the benefit of fan experience for infrequent visitors. Like it or not that makes no business sense.

 

I speak as someone who also doesn't live in Leicester. It takes me two hours to get to games, but I pay for the membership and get down when I can. 

 

Your points on the improved atmosphere that could be achieved with better ticketing structure are valid, but it doesn't take a discussion on ticketing to realise the club couldn't care less about the atmosphere generated in the ground. In fact any care they do have is to control it.

 

My point is you're fighting a losing battle, so don't do yourself out of games because you're too proud to pay for a fee you don't agree with. You can afford £100. It you couldn't, you wouldn't entertain the travel and match tickets in the first place. Life's too short.

Unfortunately, I do agree with most of what you are saying and I know I'm fighting a losing battle. However, this thread is about the Foxes Trust's consultation with the club, and my point was that rather than fighting a losing battle on my own,  the supporters trust should be there to fight these battles on my behalf. Not take advantage of the unfairness.

[davieG]

17 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

In fact any care they do have is to control it.

This is the what it's all about.

 

They treat the fans like performing monkeys.

 

Goal music is there to stop any over enthusiastic celebrations as soon as it stops playing everyone sits down

Membership is so they can monitor who's attending, I don't even think it's about money although they certainly aren't averse to milking it.

No registration = no unknowns = control, hence no match day sales.

Selling your ticket on again they're not doing it for fan's benefit it's so they know who's attending + they can make some money on it.

I wouldn't be surprised f the Fan Cam isn't  used for facial recognition of undesirables.

 

Or maybe I'm just getting paranoid 

[Paninistickers]

52 minutes ago, Golden Fox said:

Unfortunately, I do agree with most of what you are saying and I know I'm fighting a losing battle. However, this thread is about the Foxes Trust's consultation with the club, and my point was that rather than fighting a losing battle on my own,  the supporters trust should be there to fight these battles on my behalf. Not take advantage of the unfairness.

Great post. Worth a bump. 

 

I don't like the anti FT vibe that comes on here. The people there have the gumption to devote themselves to this, often at great ridicule. But, the sad fact is, the type of person who does this (and I'm guessing  the same vibe that sits on Parent Teacher Associations, parish councils and cricket club committees) are - basically - a certain type of person that is perhaps rather too nice, too placid and too compliant. More bothered about electing a speaker and note taking and seconding motions than actually offering a robust challenge and counter view.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Golden Fox said:

Unfortunately, I do agree with most of what you are saying and I know I'm fighting a losing battle. However, this thread is about the Foxes Trust's consultation with the club, and my point was that rather than fighting a losing battle on my own,  the supporters trust should be there to fight these battles on my behalf. Not take advantage of the unfairness.

Bit of a reach that, these are notes from the FCC, to which all the supporters groups get an invite plus a selection of fans as well iirc. 

 

Given their track record I doubt very much the Trust would publish any minutes of their private meetings with the club, and given how our meetings with the club go it would all be marked "confidential" anyway. 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

3 hours ago, FoxesTez said:

You cannot influence what the club choose to include in their minutes but you can publish your own full record of them. Waiting to see the club’s minutes before deciding what you ‘will subsequently publish’ is exactly the reason people are taking issue with the Trust and what it should stand for. Treading on egg shells with the club and a clear lack of transparency. 

 

3 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Why do you need to wait for the club to publish their minutes prior to yours? If you were both at the same meeting, the minutes will be similar as the same items are discussed, so why is the wait needed? 

 

Are you concerned about upsetting the club or is there a certain rule you can't publish minutes until the club's have been distributed?

Exactly this. 
 

The Foxes Trust have feigned to be asking the club tough questions and seeking accountability on behalf of the fans but are treading on egg shells and falling nicely into line with how the club would like to stage manage everything.

 

They’ve not shared these elusive questions, they’ve been palmed off to a general forum rather than the direct line to power they were offered in the summer and they’re now  waiting for the club to send delayed and vague meeting minutes before doing anything.

 

People are talking about Christmas and we’ve heard nothing of note from you @Foxes_Trust. Do something!

 

We have threads on here making cases for our relegation being the most avoidable ever and a squad on the pitch backing that assertion up, and our Supporters Trust have done nothing without a nod from the club. It’s so broken it’s laughable.

 

Expose the club! Have a voice! Piss people off if you need to! And if you lose your cushy access, then so be it. At least you’re representing and fulfilling your purpose. If the club refuse to engage, use your network to publicise that. Have everyone in the football community and FSA know that LCFC don’t engage with their Supporters Trust and are running a regime of secrecy and control that North Korea would admire.

 

The club clearly need the Foxes Trust to satisfy ticked boxes for being the model Premier League club that they aspire to be. So have confidence in constructive tension and have a bloody backbone!