Middlesbrough (H) 1-2 - Post-Match Thread

[foxinsocks]

29 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

He is right, you are wrong. Things don't need to improve, days like that where you create good chances and hit the side netting or sky tap ins over the bar happen sometimes.

So yesterday is ok is it?  And cov and Ipswich 

 

Failing to make yay and making mistakes

[The Doctor]

7 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

So yesterday is ok is it?  And cov and Ipswich 

 

Failing to make yay and making mistakes

Yesterday happens, you don't win every game and days where you create chances but the ball doesn't go in happen. Coventry we lead until 10 minutes from time having had a man sent off - there's a reason why having an extra player highly correlates with winning games. Ipswich again, came up against a keeper having a great game. Get your knees in check and stop overreacting to every minor setback as if it's the end of the world.

[ithuriel]

Painful watching this, really poor defensively, wasteful in attack.

 

[trooky]

1 hour ago, foxinsocks said:

So is it our finishing?  What I do know is we dont convert dominance to goals... and we can always make a few mistakes (too many imo).  Both need fixing

Yet, some how we're top of the league having scored the most and conceded the fewest goals. 

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, foxinsocks said:

So yesterday is ok is it?  And cov and Ipswich 

 

Failing to make yay and making mistakes

Of course yesterday wasn't ok. But neither is suggest its because of some overarching systematic issue.

[Sunbury Fox]

1 hour ago, ian__marshall said:

It was quite a good game plan from Carrick yesterday. Unfortunately it  provides a blueprint for Leeds who I think have the players to deploy that even more effectively. 

 

They packed the middle to make it congested, doubled up on the wingers to nullify the threat and were patient in waiting for us to play the high line in order to match their numerical advantage to then exploit our lack of pace at the back.

 

We needed to drop another player into the attack line to prevent them doubling up on the wingers, so I kind of saw why he brought on Cannon, but instead of pulling Mavididi I thought we needed to pull Praet, switch to a single pivot and push Ricardo into the Praet role. 

 

As others have highlighted instead Cannon just looked a bit lost and we really struggled to play through them especially as they reverted to parking the bus to see out the closing stages. 

 

We've had an amazing season so far and I'm not overly concerned about achieving promotion, however one theme I have noticed throughout the season is that whenever a team deploys an ultra low block against us our movement in the final third to disrupt their organisation and drag players out of position is non-existent. It makes it very difficult for the midfield to find passing options as there are absolutely no runners or space to play the ball into which forces us to slow the play down and the opponent is able to get more numbers behind the ball. 

 

Anyway onto Leeds, hopefully yesterday's result gives the team a bit of a nudge to take it up a gear on Friday. 

 

 

It's definitely a blueprint for mid table and below teams, maybe for some of the play off chasers. But there is no way that Leeds set up 541 against us at home. They probably think they're better than us (their fans almost certainly do), so they'll definitely take the initiative against us at ER.

[foxinsocks]

51 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Of course yesterday wasn't ok. But neither is suggest its because of some overarching systematic issue.

I am pointing put that yesterday was an example of a number of similar games... like cov, ipswitch (twice), shef wed away etc.

It would be good if we recognized a cluster of such performances and came up with an antidote 

[ian__marshall]

42 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

It's definitely a blueprint for mid table and below teams, maybe for some of the play off chasers. But there is no way that Leeds set up 541 against us at home. They probably think they're better than us (their fans almost certainly do), so they'll definitely take the initiative against us at ER.

I agree that they won't setup in the same system, but I'm fully expecting them to double up on the wingers, draw us in then counter. Problem for us is that their attackers are a heck of lot quicker than Boro's. For sure there's no way we'll play such a high line but we need to try and get control of the midfield. Can see this being a cagey affair similar to the game at the KP.

[Foxaholic ME]

2 hours ago, trooky said:

Yet, some how we're top of the league having scored the most and conceded the fewest goals. 

We are top because it is the weakest Championship for years contenders for promotion include one of the worst  premiership sides  in Southampton  a side who didnt even win  div 1  and I  wouldnt be surprised if that joke of a premiership side  ie  Norwich  dont make the play offs  Burnley  are  the cast iron proof  how poor the league is and the hype how hard it is to get out of is rubbish Norwich  more than proving this point  It is highly likely that all relegated sides go straight back up  and whilst I  may be wrong this will be the first time  Frankly  regardless of points tally 5 defeats when we only lost 3 winning the Premier is more than enough

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, Foxaholic ME said:

We are top because it is the weakest Championship for years contenders for promotion include one of the worst  premiership sides  in Southampton  a side who didnt even win  div 1  and I  wouldnt be surprised if that joke of a premiership side  ie  Norwich  dont make the play offs  Burnley  are  the cast iron proof  how poor the league is and the hype how hard it is to get out of is rubbish Norwich  more than proving this point  It is highly likely that all relegated sides go straight back up  and whilst I  may be wrong this will be the first time  Frankly  regardless of points tally 5 defeats when we only lost 3 winning the Premier is more than enough

I agree that the championship is shite. 
 

There’s a lot of crap in this league and it’s one thing brushing them aside, but we’ve struggled when coming up against the better of those teams. 
 

People need to forget next season, we might even still be here, it’s not a full gone conclusion that we’re up, a couple of more defeats will leave us in a perilous position. But, there will be undoubtedly wholesale changes if we do go up.

[Bourbon Fox]

1 hour ago, foxinsocks said:

I am pointing put that yesterday was an example of a number of similar games... like cov, ipswitch (twice), shef wed away etc.

It would be good if we recognized a cluster of such performances and came up with an antidote 

It's our weakness - we lack pace in the middle of the pitch. Wout, Vesty, Winks - none of them are setting any sprinting records.

 

Thing is, over the season this disadvantage is outweighed by the strengths - being very, very good with the ball at their feet and a very high pass completion percentage in the middle.

 

We will lose goals to mistakes and quick breaks. We'll lose games to teams that exploit our lack of pace at the back, take their chances, weather the storm and get a bit of luck.

 

Most of the time, however, these factors won't align and teams will not be able to outscore us. With the squad Enzo has, the percentages are in Leicester's favour.

 

We have 78 points from a possible 99. We've only dropped points in 8 games, losing 5. We've won 25 games of 33.

 

We don't need an antidote, we just need to accept that in a small proportion of matches across the season our opponents will exploit our weaknesses and get the rub of the green. 

 

We quite simply can't win 'em all.

Edited 18 February 2024 by Bourbon Fox

[Chelmofox]

17 minutes ago, Foxaholic ME said:

We are top because it is the weakest Championship for years contenders for promotion include one of the worst  premiership sides  in Southampton  a side who didnt even win  div 1  and I  wouldnt be surprised if that joke of a premiership side  ie  Norwich  dont make the play offs  Burnley  are  the cast iron proof  how poor the league is and the hype how hard it is to get out of is rubbish Norwich  more than proving this point  It is highly likely that all relegated sides go straight back up  and whilst I  may be wrong this will be the first time  Frankly  regardless of points tally 5 defeats when we only lost 3 winning the Premier is more than enough

So why aren’t Leeds top? 

[Lad1966]

This is a very competitive league, with 4 outstanding teams, us being one of them. Our form not been too bad over the last 10 matches. There will be some eb and flow, before the season ends. I think our saving grace will be the last week of the season, where Leeds and Southampton have to play each other, whereby one team needs to win to get automatic promotion. Hopefully our promotion will be sorted before the last week of the season. We just need to match their the points. I expect us to lose one or two games in the final run in, but the cushion we have built should see us home maybe not as champions!🏆🏆🏆

[Bourbon Fox]

26 minutes ago, Lad1966 said:

This is a very competitive league, with 4 outstanding teams, us being one of them. Our form not been too bad over the last 10 matches. There will be some eb and flow, before the season ends. I think our saving grace will be the last week of the season, where Leeds and Southampton have to play each other, whereby one team needs to win to get automatic promotion. Hopefully our promotion will be sorted before the last week of the season. We just need to match their the points. I expect us to lose one or two games in the final run in, but the cushion we have built should see us home maybe not as champions!🏆🏆🏆

According to a sim that ran the run-in 1000 times, our chance of coming 2nd is about 4%...

[Guest Col city fan]

52 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I agree that the championship is shite. 
 

There’s a lot of crap in this league and it’s one thing brushing them aside, but we’ve struggled when coming up against the better of those teams. 
 

People need to forget next season, we might even still be here, it’s not a full gone conclusion that we’re up, a couple of more defeats will leave us in a perilous position. But, there will be undoubtedly wholesale changes if we do go up.

The championship is an awful standard this season.

This Leicester squad would come straight back down if it’s not radically strengthened 

[ithuriel]

LCFC highlights vid....

 

[Pliskin]

6 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

The championship is an awful standard this season.

This Leicester squad would come straight back down if it’s not radically strengthened 

Which was my point, wholesale changes would be needed. 

[Gazza101]

We had to leave to catch a train, and had some ‘fan’ singing “we’re Leicester city we stay ‘til the end” in our face - oh to be so judgmental based on zero knowledge…what a b*** end🙄

[HighPeakFox]

Genuine question - if they congested the midfield AND doubled up on the wingers, what is the solution? 

 

One for the tactics thread maybe, @StriderHiryu

[FOXSE]

5 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Genuine question - if they congested the midfield AND doubled up on the wingers, what is the solution? 

 

One for the tactics thread maybe, @StriderHiryu

Take the inevitable chances you will create.

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, FOXSE said:

Take the inevitable chances you will create.

Yes, we did create enough yesterday. Imagine we'd played well... 

[Sunbury Fox]

Why are people slagging off the standard of the league so much? I'd say the Championship is much stronger this season than last when the 3rd placed team got only 2 points more over a full season than we have already. The top 4 are all very good sides, playing decent football. Of course all 4 would struggle in the PL 'as is', but that's why better quality players would be signed if we went up. It's quite sad that some fans can't give our players more credit for what they've achieved this season, instead claiming that we are only top because everyone else is rubbish. 

Edited 18 February 2024 by Sunbury Fox

[ithuriel]

I'd say it is pretty strong, just the teams that came down are no pushovers at this level and Ipswich are a good team with momentum.

More matches too.

[Flappit]

1 hour ago, Bourbon Fox said:

According to a sim that ran the run-in 1000 times, our chance of coming 2nd is about 4%...

That same sim a few years back was convinced we were coming top 4 both times, and yet... 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

Genuine question - if they congested the midfield AND doubled up on the wingers, what is the solution? 

 

One for the tactics thread maybe, @StriderHiryu

We made tons of high quality chances, we had over 2 xG for the game which supports that argument. We just didn't take them and were sloppy at the back.

 

The first goal I think was forgivable to some degree, Faes stepped out and lost it, and as a result there was space in behind, which was exploited. It doesn't matter who we have in the team, playing that way, goals like that are sometimes going to happen. The second one was a bigger crime because in the build up to the goal we took a really sloppy throw-in which meant we weren't in the right shape when we lost the ball as a result of that sequence of play.

 

To directly answer the question, the solution is to pass the opponents to death, shift their defence around and pick them apart. Usually we are so good at doing that, but in this game the amount of misplaced passes we made was incredible. And no player was innocent of the crime, even the subs who came on gave it away. Yunus Akgun came on and did a brilliant sequence of passes that totally opened up Boro, but then 2 minutes later misplaced a 5 yard pass out into touch! It summed up our day.

 

When you play technical football, if you have an off day, it's really hard to get a result. If we look at the 15/16 season, one reason we won the league and Spurs and Arsenal failed is because at the time they also played quite technical football. Whereas in our system it didn't really matter if a few players were under par... inevitably Vardy or Mahrez would get a high quality chance, so if they put it in we could grind games out. In that season we had some quite lethargic wins against Watford, Sunderland and Newcastle. We played pretty badly against Villa away and Bournemouth in both games too. But performances at 5 or 6/10 could still be turned into points in that system as teams still didn't take us too seriously.

 

If you look at Man City, one way they try to solve for inconsistency is to have a deep squad so you have quality on the bench to bring on if key individuals are having on off day. But they drew last night, so it shows it can happen to anyone.

 

 

Edited 18 February 2024 by StriderHiryu