Middlesbrough (H) 1-2 - Post-Match Thread

[Sly]

15 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

I know there are people on here who will straight away know the answer but what’s our points gained from a losing position?

 

It feels relatively low but that might be harsh just an observation as if we do hopefully get promoted we’d find ourselves chasing games a lot more and doesn’t feel like we’re great at this.

We’ve been behind in 8 games, which for context is the lowest in the league. 
 

Won 3, lost 5.

 

Game 1 - Coventry - Won

Game 5 - Hull - Lost

Game 12 - Swansea - Won

Game 15 - Leeds - Lost

Game 16 - Middlesbrough - Lost

Game 21 - Millwall - Won

Game 27 - Coventry - Lost

Game 33 - Middlesbrough - Lost

 

[oxtonfox]

14 hours ago, jonny_wright said:

We really need to avoid defeat on Friday, otherwise this bump might become a crevice. Totally agree more of a concern for me but is the lack of options after the first 11. 

Edited 18 February 2024 by oxtonfox
update

[The Doctor]

20 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

I know there are people on here who will straight away know the answer but what’s our points gained from a losing position?

 

It feels relatively low but that might be harsh just an observation as if we do hopefully get promoted we’d find ourselves chasing games a lot more and doesn’t feel like we’re great at this.

Bare in mind we've only gone behind in 8 games

 

Won 3 (Coventry H, Swansea A, Millwall H)

 

Lost 5 (Hull H, Leeds H, Mboro A, Cov A, Mboro H)

 

Cov A I'm inclined to remove as we scored the first goal and didn't end up even level until 10 minutes to go, in a losing position until 89 minutes, so, when conceding the first goal we average 1.29 points per game, when we go behind during a game that goes to 1.13 points per game. That'd be 42 - 49 points over the course of a premier league season if that was our general form 

[oxtonfox]

3 minutes ago, oxtonfox said:

I felt Kiernan looked tired yesterday and this quickly spread through to others. 

 

Edited 18 February 2024 by oxtonfox

[smudger63]

1 hour ago, trabuch said:

Everyone saying the Cannon sub was poor is bang wrong. I sometimes wonder if I'm watching the same game as some of you lot.

Cannon was decent when he was on the ball, and i thought he done pretty well, but he isn't and never will be a winger.

Some of the balls that were played straight out of play, that were meant for Cannon, came about because Cannon was thinking like a striker, and making intelligent runs inside,  off the ball, and the player passing him the ball was playing the pass like Mavadidi was still on the pitch, who generally stays wide.

It was a strange sub, given he had Albrighton,Yunus and McAteer on the bench.

Also Albrighton came on way too late, and arguably should have come on ahead of McAteer and Yunus, to play the wide role.

Yunus should have come on for KDH, who was having a mare, rather than for Fatawu.

The subs though much needed, were a bit baffling on how and when they were deployed.

 

 

 

Edited 18 February 2024 by smudger63

[Winstonthedog]

Just a reminder.... it ain't over until its over .. reset and go again.... Tom Cannon needs a run of games as down the middle striker 

[trooky]

Poor finishing cost us today, we missed so many sitters. 

 

Should have won at least 4-2.

[Bordersfox]

1 hour ago, trooky said:

Poor finishing cost us today, we missed so many sitters. 

 

Should have won at least 4-2.

I counted five chances (including the one Vardy scored) that you'd really expect to be put away at this level.  It was actually becoming comical by the end.

[5waller5]

It all looked a bit muddled yesterday.

 

Off-form and tired looking engine room, no sparkle from the wingers, and a laboured approach to breaking down their very defensive / pragmatic tactics at 0-2.

 

Enzo himself even had a lacklustre day, the subs seeming a little confusing.

 

It seems like we may be over-complicating things at the minute.
 

Hopefully a week of simple clarity in training can turn it around. It seems like Enzo needs to walk in the doors afresh, and be the clear thinker he was a few months ago (there’s nobody I trust more to do that than Mr Maresca)

[AjcW]

Hadn’t quite realised how good Cannons pass was to Vardy until the replay this morning! 
 

I really think he’s a bit of a star in the making, hope we treat him well and give him plenty of opportunity. Personally think the way we handled Daka coming back from AFCON has been really poor. 
 

Before anyone starts, I know Daka has come back and done well (until yesterday) but I feel Cannon should have been afforded at least another start since (probably yesterday!) 

Edited 18 February 2024 by AjcW

[Sunbury Fox]

2 hours ago, foxinsocks said:

We have mistakes in us.  (Two puniished today. It will be worse in the prem)

 

This would not be such a problem if we created more chances.  Enzo ( ...i like him) went in radio leicester and said we created "loads of chances".  A soft shot from distance by cannon mid way thru the second half was our first shot on goal!   

 

Mistakes and low shots on goal... that was the script against cov and Ipswich.... and now Middlesbrough.   Sort ot out.

As I've said earlier in this thread we've created 13 more big chances than any other team in the Championship. In fact, we've already created more big chances than Burnley managed in the whole of last season. Yesterday, we created and missed 4 big chances - Vesty and Daka first half, Vesty and Vardy second half. 

[STEVIE B]

2 hours ago, Sly said:

We’ve been behind in 8 games, which for context is the lowest in the league. 
 

Won 3, lost 5.

 

Game 1 - Coventry - Won

Game 5 - Hull - Lost

Game 12 - Swansea - Won

Game 15 - Leeds - Lost

Game 16 - Middlesbrough - Lost

Game 21 - Millwall - Won

Game 27 - Coventry - Lost

Game 33 - Middlesbrough - Lost

 

We were ahead v Cov. (game 27)

KDH pen. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

What a bizarre game, we absolutely dominated but for some reason, our passing. movement and decision making  was miles off the standards we have set. 
 

Despite being off our levels, we still managed to miss 4 absolute sitters. As for Middlesboro they were absolutely awful, literally just hoofed it forward and hoped for the best, and on two occasions we defended poorly and gifted them the goals, after that they completely shithoused their way to a victory, any sustained quality from us at any stage of the game and we would have won by 5 or 6.

 

i had no issues at all with the subs today, KDH, Mavididi and Fatawu were all shockingly poor and guilty of giving ball away on countless occasions, hopefully a bit of a kick up the arse before Friday. 
 

special mention to the referee who managed to look like he had won a competition to referee a professional football match, one of the most weak, embarrassing and inept officiating I have witnessed for some time. I bet he had posters of Michael Carrick on his bedroom wall as a kid. 
 

Hopefully this will have hurt everyone and fire up a suitable reaction on Friday.

[Sly]

1 minute ago, STEVIE B said:

We were ahead v Cov. (game 27)

KDH pen. 

We then went behind …. 

[Silebyfox_89]

Enzo's plan B looks hideous. 

 

We'll need a better game plan if our A game isn't working in the prem.

 

Middlesbrough were worth the win and we'll probably face more 5 at the back next season too. 

Shame we didn't take our chances just an off day for the lads.

 

[CheeseHead]

17 hours ago, sbfox said:

Spoiler alert, we'll also lose again before the end of the season next week

Fixed it for you 

[foxinsocks]

3 hours ago, The Doctor said:

We did create loads of chances? It's not only a chance if you get it on target...

That's the problem... he says loads... we say few.  Things wont improve until he acknowledges the problem 

[foxinsocks]

1 hour ago, Sunbury Fox said:

As I've said earlier in this thread we've created 13 more big chances than any other team in the Championship. In fact, we've already created more big chances than Burnley managed in the whole of last season. Yesterday, we created and missed 4 big chances - Vesty and Daka first half, Vesty and Vardy second half. 

So is it our finishing?  What I do know is we dont convert dominance to goals... and we can always make a few mistakes (too many imo).  Both need fixing

[Chelmofox]

36 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

What a bizarre game, we absolutely dominated but for some reason, our passing. movement and decision making  was miles off the standards we have set. 
 

Despite being off our levels, we still managed to miss 4 absolute sitters. As for Middlesboro they were absolutely awful, literally just hoofed it forward and hoped for the best, and on two occasions we defended poorly and gifted them the goals, after that they completely shithoused their way to a victory, any sustained quality from us at any stage of the game and we would have won by 5 or 6.

 

i had no issues at all with the subs today, KDH, Mavididi and Fatawu were all shockingly poor and guilty of giving ball away on countless occasions, hopefully a bit of a kick up the arse before Friday. 
 

special mention to the referee who managed to look like he had won a competition to referee a professional football match, one of the most weak, embarrassing and inept officiating I have witnessed for some time. I bet he had posters of Michael Carrick on his bedroom wall as a kid. 
 

Hopefully this will have hurt everyone and fire up a suitable reaction on Friday.

Not sure i agree that Middlesbrough were awful. They were certainly nothing special but were able to execute a game plan that i think surprised us a little, taking pretty much all their big chances. I thought they defended well and starved us of our free flowing passing in the middle of the pitch. Very little from KDH or Winks found its way through the middle. They were certainly 'on it' from that perspective.

 

They took the few chances they had, stopped us playing to our strengths, and then lucked out when we couldn't finish anything. That's how you beat the better teams.  Felt a bit like when we drew again Newcastle last year when they were clearly the better team. It happens.

 

I would put money on Middlesbrough losing to Plymouth next week.

[Chelmofox]

4 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

So is it our finishing?  What I do know is we dont convert dominance to goals... and we can always make a few mistakes (too many imo).  Both need fixing

Time and time again its pointed out that we have the most goals scored and the best goal difference in the league. We have joint fewest goals conceded. Dominance has allowed us to end up with these stats. What we aren't seeing is exponential return on that dominance, but that is largely impossible.  We will have games like Stoke where we are more clinical, and game like yesterday where at least 3 players (including the goat) snatch at sitters. 

 

It would be interesting to see how we respond following this defeat. I think dropping 2 goals in the 1st half won't sit well with Enzo and think he might opt to be more defensive, so we won't see Faes and Vestergaard as far forward as they have been lately. I don't think he will want to appease the 'forward' brigade as much as he has been.

[The Doctor]

23 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

That's the problem... he says loads... we say few.  Things wont improve until he acknowledges the problem 

He is right, you are wrong. Things don't need to improve, days like that where you create good chances and hit the side netting or sky tap ins over the bar happen sometimes.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Time and time again its pointed out that we have the most goals scored and the best goal difference in the league. We have joint fewest goals conceded. Dominance has allowed us to end up with these stats. What we aren't seeing is exponential return on that dominance, but that is largely impossible.  We will have games like Stoke where we are more clinical, and game like yesterday where at least 3 players (including the goat) snatch at sitters. 

 

It would be interesting to see how we respond following this defeat. I think dropping 2 goals in the 1st half won't sit well with Enzo and think he might opt to be more defensive, so we won't see Faes and Vestergaard as far forward as they have been lately. I don't think he will want to appease the 'forward' brigade as much as he has been.

General comment, not debating your post, but it seemed a good start for the this reply is all.

 

It is with no sense of irony that I felt yesterday, we went too gung ho. We needed to retain composure and stop trying to force it, yes we were ponderous at the back but that is not news and the reasons for it are well documented, but when we got up front we went too fast, faster from back to front would have been better,  but once we got around their box, at several points we seemed to rush. Often Fatawu, but others also culpable, as we needed to keep the pressure very high over a prolonged period of time imho as Boro were clearly of  a strict defensive mind, so moving them around lot was always going to be the way forward rather than look for the shortcut of a killer pass which has a high risk of breaking down.

[ian__marshall]

It was quite a good game plan from Carrick yesterday. Unfortunately it  provides a blueprint for Leeds who I think have the players to deploy that even more effectively. 

 

They packed the middle to make it congested, doubled up on the wingers to nullify the threat and were patient in waiting for us to play the high line in order to match their numerical advantage to then exploit our lack of pace at the back.

 

We needed to drop another player into the attack line to prevent them doubling up on the wingers, so I kind of saw why he brought on Cannon, but instead of pulling Mavididi I thought we needed to pull Praet, switch to a single pivot and push Ricardo into the Praet role. 

 

As others have highlighted instead Cannon just looked a bit lost and we really struggled to play through them especially as they reverted to parking the bus to see out the closing stages. 

 

We've had an amazing season so far and I'm not overly concerned about achieving promotion, however one theme I have noticed throughout the season is that whenever a team deploys an ultra low block against us our movement in the final third to disrupt their organisation and drag players out of position is non-existent. It makes it very difficult for the midfield to find passing options as there are absolutely no runners or space to play the ball into which forces us to slow the play down and the opponent is able to get more numbers behind the ball. 

 

Anyway onto Leeds, hopefully yesterday's result gives the team a bit of a nudge to take it up a gear on Friday. 

 

 

Edited 18 February 2024 by ian__marshall

[Chelmofox]

18 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

General comment, not debating your post, but it seemed a good start for the this reply is all.

 

It is with no sense of irony that I felt yesterday, we went too gung ho. We needed to retain composure and stop trying to force it, yes we were ponderous at the back but that is not news and the reasons for it are well documented, but when we got up front we went too fast, faster from back to front would have been better,  but once we got around their box, at several points we seemed to rush. Often Fatawu, but others also culpable, as we needed to keep the pressure very high over a prolonged period of time imho as Boro were clearly of  a strict defensive mind, so moving them around lot was always going to be the way forward rather than look for the shortcut of a killer pass which has a high risk of breaking down.

Couldn't agree more. The irony is that when doing what a lot of fans had been shouting for, we didn't look composed,  snatched at chances and opted for whipping in random crosses rather than executing a plan. I don't know if it was a product of going 2 goals down, or something about Boro tactics that triggered something in our system, or even if the better atmosphere in the ground contributed to players losing composure. I felt on a number of occasions that calming down a bit and focussing on what we are good at would have been better. Even from Enzo's side - although Cannon was ok, the Mavididi sub was strange as its usually in the 2nd half at the KP he starts to shine. Subbing at half time almost felt that Enzo was being reactionary. 

 

Cliche ridden, but definitely one for them all to learn from. But I stand by my point that i think Enzo will be more defensively minded for the next few games.

Edited 18 February 2024 by Chelmofox

[Mickyblueeyes]

It was a horrible result yesterday. One where if we took our chances, we win. Makes it even more disappointing/frustrating. We could quite easily go to Leeds and lose too. I think we’ll get a draw but even if we did lose and Saints win their game in hand, we have our gap cut to what 6 points ? That’s still quite a lead at this stage.
 

Dust it off, regroup and hit another run.