Development/Youth Squads 2024/2025 Thread - U18/U21

[CosbehFox]

Notable that it's like he's playing at a different tempo to the game. 

[les-tah]

28 minutes ago, AjcW said:

I'm certainly not going to compare him to Nwaneri, but... he's doing exactly the same things in the same position, and I imagine Nwaneri was doing those things against similar opposition and Arteta took a punt.

 

I just WISH we'd just give it one go, one start, we've got nothing to lose on Friday.

Its the obvious thing to do is give this Evans lad a chance … but we seem to have the perfect ingredients currently of zero creativity and goals from our current front 3 with a combined age of about 100 so hes got no chance competing with these lot with them backward stats.

 

[les-tah]

It baffles me how you get Mcateer in the team and not actual exciting lads in.

 

someone correct me if im wrong but if you stick Mcateer in the U21s i dont think hes scoring and creating there much either.

[Mark]

2 minutes ago, les-tah said:

It baffles me how you get Mcateer in the team and not actual exciting lads in.

 

someone correct me if im wrong but if you stick Mcateer in the U21s i dont think hes scoring and creating there much either.

McAteers record was 9 goals in 42 games in the league format. Evans already has 9 in 11 this season at 16

[Ric Flair]

As I've already said, what Evans is doing at 16 is rare. Only Nwaneri has got anywhere near the goals and assists at PL2 level at the same age and by the end of this season Evans will likely have wiped the floor with him too.

 

I've gone back and looked at the various talents who've come through and there's nothing like this. Raheem Sterling did well the season he broke through but again it wasn't as obvious. Foden's end product at 17 wasn't what Evans is at 16 either. 

 

Tyler Dibling wasn't even playing PL2 at 16 and even last season at 18 wasn't this lethal.

 

Whilst you can get players who are too dominant at this level due to physicality such as Reyes Cleary and it not mean they'll step up, Evans has decent strength but it's his pace, skill, technique and end product that cannot be dealt with and I suspect he'll do the same at any level. 

 

 

[RedSoxUK]

So the question is, why isn't he on the bench?

[FoxesBraun]

Has to be worth a punt with Evans.

 

Clearly not ready to be chucked in at the deep end yet but a handful of minutes to get a taste for it at Prem level will no doubt benefit him more than keeping him in the U21 bubble, especially in preparation for the Championship. 

Edited 17 February by FoxesBraun

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, AjcW said:

I'm certainly not going to compare him to Nwaneri, but... he's doing exactly the same things in the same position, and I imagine Nwaneri was doing those things against similar opposition and Arteta took a punt.

 

I just WISH we'd just give it one go, one start, we've got nothing to lose on Friday.

Nwaneri had been singled out by Arsenal’s academy for some time.  He played 20 mins in the PL at 15

he played 13 mins at 16 plus 2 efl trophy appearances. He looks more than comfortable at PL level this season. 

 

theres a big difference between u21 football and men’s football. Evans has had one full 90 mins against notts county and did ok.  I reckon we’ll see plenty of him next season but I also think that this next few months is just a bit too early for him. Once our fate is sealed I can see him getting some minutes from the bench. 

[moore_94]

23 minutes ago, RedSoxUK said:

So the question is, why isn't he on the bench?

I think Ruud just doesn’t trust youth / doesn’t want to bother with the risk (even though our current attackers are doing fvck all anyway)

Edited 17 February by moore_94

[Chelmofox]

11 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

I think Ruud just doesn’t trust youth / doesn’t want to bother with the risk (even though our current attackers are doing fvck all anyway)

Surely it depends on whether sticking him on the bench is better for his development that continuing to get the experience and success he is current getting. I don't think it's just a Ruud decision, especially as he is just 17. 

 

Agree about our current attackers though!

[les-tah]

26 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

I think Ruud just doesn’t trust youth / doesn’t want to bother with the risk (even though our current attackers are doing fvck all anyway)

surely there is no risk its just dog sh1t management at this point? If you are losing every match and are not scoring or creating it cant get any worse right?

Edited 17 February by les-tah

[st albans fox]

Just now, les-tah said:

surely there is no risk its just dog sh1t management at this point? If you are losing every match and are not scoring or creating it cant get any worse right?

A lot is made of not putting too much pressure on young shoulders.  That it can negatively affect youngsters to effectively say - ‘we’re going down unless you can rescue us’.  Whilst youngsters are often fearless, I have no idea what the mentality of Evans and monga is and how they’d respond to playing and making no impression and us losing again. 

[AjcW]

20 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Surely it depends on whether sticking him on the bench is better for his development that continuing to get the experience and success he is current getting. I don't think it's just a Ruud decision, especially as he is just 17. 

 

Agree about our current attackers though!

One of the big problems I have is that these lads could easily do Bench + U21 full 90 but often that isn't acknolwedged. 

 

This week for example. We play Friday night, U21's at home on Monday.... Zero travelling, zero impact on the lad, he might as well be on the bench at the very least! Could even do 20 mins and the game Monday.

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, les-tah said:

surely there is no risk its just dog sh1t management at this point? If you are losing every match and are not scoring or creating it cant get any worse right?

At youth level its about what is best for the player. Just chucking them in isn't always best for them.

[filbertway]

36 minutes ago, AjcW said:

One of the big problems I have is that these lads could easily do Bench + U21 full 90 but often that isn't acknolwedged. 

 

This week for example. We play Friday night, U21's at home on Monday.... Zero travelling, zero impact on the lad, he might as well be on the bench at the very least! Could even do 20 mins and the game Monday.

Was it Palmer a few years back that played a part of an early kick off for Man City and then played for the u21s later that day and bagged a trick? 

[AjcW]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

Was it Palmer a few years back that played a part of an early kick off for Man City and then played for the u21s later that day and bagged a trick? 

If I had to think of anyone to do that it would be him  

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, AjcW said:

If I had to think of anyone to do that it would be him  

Cole Palmer amazed Phil Foden and Jack Grealish by playing two Man City games in same day and he even scored a hat-trick | talkSPORT

I had to google it and make sure I wasn't going mad. I reckon Evans can go one better and bag a hattrick in each game

 

[Lesta2014]

Who’s the number 6 who loves a cross field switch of play? Seen few assists from them passes in u21s this season

[LVFox]

Remarkably easy to jusy say he should be thrown in. It's a super difficult scenario.

 

He's training with the first team at 16 and banging in goals at U21 level. Think we can be pretty happy with his progression so far.

[AjcW]

1 hour ago, LVFox said:

Remarkably easy to jusy say he should be thrown in. It's a super difficult scenario.

 

He's training with the first team at 16 and banging in goals at U21 level. Think we can be pretty happy with his progression so far.

I honestly think it would be less of an issue any other season. But we remain pretty much the only team in the league this season that hasn't handed a debut to a young player (or seven!!) (i'm not counting Will!)

 

This season has been a complete outlier for it in the Premier League, big teams, middle teams and struggling teams, they've all done it.

 

The results have of course been mixed, but some clear headlines emerging. Likely culminating in Thomas Tuchels first England squad containing Nwaneri and Lewis Skelley. 

[LVFox]

6 minutes ago, AjcW said:

I honestly think it would be less of an issue any other season. But we remain pretty much the only team in the league this season that hasn't handed a debut to a young player (or seven!!) (i'm not counting Will!)

 

This season has been a complete outlier for it in the Premier League, big teams, middle teams and struggling teams, they've all done it.

 

The results have of course been mixed, but some clear headlines emerging. Likely culminating in Thomas Tuchels first England squad containing Nwaneri and Lewis Skelley. 

I'm really happy to be corrected, and I agree the pathways for players like Alves & Braybrooke have been mismanaged (not just this season), but have the likes of Everton, Ipswich and Wolves blooded many 17-19 year olds? It's so hard to do when your matches are tight at best, 1 defensive lapse can cost you valuable points in this division, and that relates to any position on the pitch as well.

 

I think it's far easier for teams that are in comfortable possession, or 2-3 goals up to throw a youngster in off the bench to see how they cope. We simply don't have that luxury.

[AjcW]

7 minutes ago, LVFox said:

I'm really happy to be corrected, and I agree the pathways for players like Alves & Braybrooke have been mismanaged (not just this season), but have the likes of Everton, Ipswich and Wolves blooded many 17-19 year olds? It's so hard to do when your matches are tight at best, 1 defensive lapse can cost you valuable points in this division, and that relates to any position on the pitch as well.

 

I think it's far easier for teams that are in comfortable possession, or 2-3 goals up to throw a youngster in off the bench to see how they cope. We simply don't have that luxury.

Completely understand where you're coming from. From my perspective I find it much more troubling watching arrogant, overpaid people who couldn't care less about us make mistakes week in week out. Sometimes just wish the rule book could be thrown out  

[funkyrobot]

8 hours ago, st albans fox said:

A lot is made of not putting too much pressure on young shoulders.  That it can negatively affect youngsters to effectively say - ‘we’re going down unless you can rescue us’.  Whilst youngsters are often fearless, I have no idea what the mentality of Evans and monga is and how they’d respond to playing and making no impression and us losing again. 

We’ve got to start risking these players. None of them will be told what you’ve suggested. Treating them too gently has not worked with our forward or creative youth players in the past. Our squad is lacking pace and lacking creativity and it’s lacking money. In this situation we should be trying out these outstanding kids and seeing how they get on. If they are good enough then they will cope, if they aren’t then they’ve had a chance and will have at least achieved a 1st team appearance or 2! If they are good enough they are old enough. 

Edited 17 February by funkyrobot

[UniFox21]

This is a bit of an indication of why we aren't seeing more youth players 

 

 

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

This is a bit of an indication of why we aren't seeing more youth players 

 

 

Club culture is involved in a lot of this as well. Post Pearson I can’t think of a single manager that has given youth a proper chance.