Cooper - OUT

[daddylonglegs]

His plan is to fluke 7 or 8 wins & hope its enough. 

I honestly think he's a really really poor manager from what I've seen so far, but at the same time I think he knows exactly what he's doing. 

 

Don't get humiliated against the big boys & try and nick the aforementioned 7 or 8 wins against teams that are as hopeless as we are, and hope we pick up a bonus win here or there (As per Bournemouth). 

 

It's not going to be pretty but as the points keep coming, I'm leaning towards thinking it's going to be enough to keep us up.

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, daddylonglegs said:

His plan is to fluke 7 or 8 wins & hope its enough. 

I honestly think he's a really really poor manager from what I've seen so far, but at the same time I think he knows exactly what he's doing. 

 

Don't get humiliated against the big boys & try and nick the aforementioned 7 or 8 wins against teams that are as hopeless as we are, and hope we pick up a bonus win here or there (As per Bournemouth). 

 

It's not going to be pretty but as the points keep coming, I'm leaning towards thinking it's going to be enough to keep us up.

I hate the terms "fluke" and "luck" in football.

 

What are we fluking? On Saturday first half was pathetic. Second half Cooper changed it and we turned it around. We come from 2 down to win 2-3 away from home in the top flight. I cannot remember the last time I said that. All this "he's lost the players" yet they showed fight I haven't seen in a long long time.

 

There are games where you win and you deserve to lose. There are games you lose where you deserve to win. This happens to every single team in the Country. Yet the biggest critics seem to think it only applies to us. 

 

But even if we are "fluking" wins then it's good enough for me. I just want us to stay up because I didn't think we would. Not to long ago the geniuses on here were saying how Ipswich are going to finish above us, how they have a much better manager than us but oh look they haven't won a game yet and every time I watch MOTD they look awful.

[majaco]

We're doing better than I thought we would

 

We might have done better under Maresca.  It would have been boring to watch.

 

Are we moving towards the right balance 

 

I think there is some awareness that having too many young players in the side may be problematic.   Unfortunately,  this holds Alves back.  

[lcfcbluearmy]

On 23/10/2024 at 00:25, Chrysalis said:

Pragmatic is adjusting to do what you need to do to get results, not adjusting to a single style of play used in every game to suit the owner and some fans.

 

We dont have the squad for it and there is far too much evidence to show it wouldnt work in the EPL, maybe you prefer to watch a style of football you want and getting relegated in the progress.

What is more important to you, a style you like to watch or results?

What evidence? 

Burnley are not us don't have our players

We beat Bournemouth and only narrowly lost to chealsea last season which are the only 2 games that our players have played that system against a prem team.

 

Look it might not work but claiming that there is loads of evidence that it wouldn't is just plainly untrue. The only evidence we have of us playing that style against prem trams showed that we were competitive 

[HighPeakFox]

11 hours ago, daddylonglegs said:

His plan is to fluke 7 or 8 wins & hope its enough. 

Yes, that fluke win with an xG of 3 - who couldn't plan for that?

[Tom12345]

As a manager, I like how he has tried to mix things up and get the long balls back.

 

First 6 games though that was awful and the long balls were just quick ways to turn the ball over and invite pressure.

 

In the last 2 games, some passing from the back has re-emerged.

 

It is still a bit difficult to see some proper Enzo like game plan (it doesn’t have to be the same as Enzo’s of course).

 

Having said all of that, the thing I value the most is that the manager learns from mistakes and is willing to experiment. And of course, he needs to show that he has a good football brain in doing so.  So far, I have seen enough experimentation on his part that I would give him more time (hopefully more towards the tactics/selection that I see best 🤣).  I hope he is not stubborn like Rodgers was and shows us that he is better than him.

 

Edited 25 October 2024 by Tom12345

[daddylonglegs]

7 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Yes, that fluke win with an xG of 3 - who couldn't plan for that?

Any comments on the xG on our other win?

Or on the xG & xGA in totality this year versus the rest of the league? 

[daddylonglegs]

16 hours ago, Fox92 said:

I hate the terms "fluke" and "luck" in football.

 

What are we fluking? On Saturday first half was pathetic. Second half Cooper changed it and we turned it around. We come from 2 down to win 2-3 away from home in the top flight. I cannot remember the last time I said that. All this "he's lost the players" yet they showed fight I haven't seen in a long long time.

 

There are games where you win and you deserve to lose. There are games you lose where you deserve to win. This happens to every single team in the Country. Yet the biggest critics seem to think it only applies to us. 

 

But even if we are "fluking" wins then it's good enough for me. I just want us to stay up because I didn't think we would. Not to long ago the geniuses on here were saying how Ipswich are going to finish above us, how they have a much better manager than us but oh look they haven't won a game yet and every time I watch MOTD they look awful.

That's fair mate. I think for me, you know a fluke when you see one, and Bournemouth for example was absolutely one of them. 

I think it's difficult also to look at the Southampton game and not see a fairly decent portion of good fortune was on our side that day, Saints should've absolutely had a penalty and we've scuffed one in the corner in the last min. But as you say - swings and roundabouts, things went Saints' way during the game too. 

 

However (And this is just my opinion), I think there are teams that continually seem to get away with it & generate results, despite not really deserving them on the balance of play. The two that spring to mind are United (All metrics would point to them being bottom half of the table last year) & actually Cooper's Forest. Consistently poor but just about scraped over the line in 22/23. 

 

I've got no problem with us being one of those teams who seemingly don't 'deserve' to generate enough points for survival, but stay up anyway!

[filthyfox]

18 hours ago, daddylonglegs said:

His plan is to fluke 7 or 8 wins & hope its enough. 

I honestly think he's a really really poor manager from what I've seen so far, but at the same time I think he knows exactly what he's doing. 

 

Don't get humiliated against the big boys & try and nick the aforementioned 7 or 8 wins against teams that are as hopeless as we are, and hope we pick up a bonus win here or there (As per Bournemouth). 

 

It's not going to be pretty but as the points keep coming, I'm leaning towards thinking it's going to be enough to keep us up.

Surely this is all one expects from this season?

[Happy Fox]

Jose in two years time or maybe sooner 

[dr.o.ball]

12 hours ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

What evidence? 

Burnley are not us don't have our players

We beat Bournemouth and only narrowly lost to chealsea last season which are the only 2 games that our players have played that system against a prem team.

 

Look it might not work but claiming that there is loads of evidence that it wouldn't is just plainly untrue. The only evidence we have of us playing that style against prem trams showed that we were competitive 

The best result we had last year was stuffing Southampton at our place and Enzo was unimpressed with our style afterwards. To those who think Enzo could do better right now fair play, but for me he was deludedly rigid, even Pep tells the lads to go long against certain opposition. 

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, daddylonglegs said:

Any comments on the xG on our other win?

Or on the xG & xGA in totality this year versus the rest of the league? 

Not really. My point is, really, nobody 'plans to fluke'. I'm afraid that's just hyperbole. 

[Babylon]

A lot of what he does winds me up, but whilst the points are coming he stays in the job. There won’t be much credit in the bank when a bad run comes though. 
 

We need to be walking out of Forest and Ipswich with a bare minimum of 3 (preferably 4 points) to go into the tough run of games after. 

[Fox92]

59 minutes ago, daddylonglegs said:

That's fair mate. I think for me, you know a fluke when you see one, and Bournemouth for example was absolutely one of them. 

I think it's difficult also to look at the Southampton game and not see a fairly decent portion of good fortune was on our side that day, Saints should've absolutely had a penalty and we've scuffed one in the corner in the last min. But as you say - swings and roundabouts, things went Saints' way during the game too. 

 

However (And this is just my opinion), I think there are teams that continually seem to get away with it & generate results, despite not really deserving them on the balance of play. The two that spring to mind are United (All metrics would point to them being bottom half of the table last year) & actually Cooper's Forest. Consistently poor but just about scraped over the line in 22/23. 

 

I've got no problem with us being one of those teams who seemingly don't 'deserve' to generate enough points for survival, but stay up anyway!

Honestly yeah I can see when we win and don't deserve too. Likewise when we lose and don't deserve too. Bournemouth were unlucky against us but that's how it goes isn't it. The other week Fulham missed chance after chance at Manchester City, came away with a defeat and deep down I think Pep knew that which is why he went and spoke to Traore. It's how it goes. But, you know, I think second half against Spurs was good and without the injury which slowed the game down I do think we'd have gone on and won that. People always quote XG nowadays and that game ours was higher than Spurs.

 

We showed fight at Southampton to come back just as we did at Arsenal. Shame about the Arsenal result but not many teams will go there and score two goals, never mind score two to get back into the game. The Palace result was worse but, stupid mistakes cost us the three points. 

 

For me, at the end of the day, we've played 8 games and with that three top 6 teams. The only game I look back at with regret currently is Everton but, look, they went to Ipswich last week and won 0-2.

 

Cooper wouldn't have been my choice either and I think if he does keep us up then I'd like the board to show some ambition and go for a better manager. We all know that won't happen though. But right now, I am okay with 9 points. It should have been 11 if you consider the Palace game but that's how football goes. Tonight against Forest will be a tough game as they're good defensively but I'd like to think we can get something from tonight and from Ipswich too next week.

[Dr The Singh]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

A lot of what he does winds me up, but whilst the points are coming he stays in the job. There won’t be much credit in the bank when a bad run comes though. 
 

We need to be walking out of Forest and Ipswich with a bare minimum of 3 (preferably 4 points) to go into the tough run of games after. 

Agreed, he is getting a hiding for nothing.  Can't afford to lose to Ipswich, this match is a free hit for me.

[Webbo]

13 hours ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

What evidence? 

Burnley are not us don't have our players

 

And yet they won the Championship by quite a few more points than us. 

Did they have better players than us or is Kompany a better manager than Enzo?

[CosbehFox]

30 minutes ago, Webbo said:

And yet they won the Championship by quite a few more points than us. 

Did they have better players than us or is Kompany a better manager than Enzo?

Weaker opposition in the Championship that year IMO. Didn't have to compete with Leeds for example. Spoke volumes the playoff final was Coventry v Luton. 

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

Weaker opposition in the Championship that year IMO. Didn't have to compete with Leeds for example. Spoke volumes the playoff final was Coventry v Luton. 

Exactly the same teams apart from Southampton and Leeds. We beat Southampton twice, so that doesn't explain the points difference 

 

[SafewayFox]

9 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Yes, that fluke win with an xG of 3 - who couldn't plan for that?

I’m going to be cheeky and say that I thought xG was discarded by those defending Cooper earlier in the season 😘

[SafewayFox]

40 minutes ago, Webbo said:

And yet they won the Championship by quite a few more points than us. 

Did they have better players than us or is Kompany a better manager than Enzo?

I didn’t realise 4 points equates to quite a few more points.

[mancunianfox]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Exactly the same teams apart from Southampton and Leeds. We beat Southampton twice, so that doesn't explain the points difference 

 

No Ipswich either to be fair, we were definitely under more pressure in the last third of the season than Burnley were. We should still have got more points than them though...

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

I didn’t realise 4 points equates to quite a few more points.

Fair enough, I thought it was more but I couldn't be arsed to check.

F act is they did better than us, so the the evidence that we had a better team/ manager isn't there.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

56 minutes ago, Babylon said:

A lot of what he does winds me up, but whilst the points are coming he stays in the job. There won’t be much credit in the bank when a bad run comes though. 
 

We need to be walking out of Forest and Ipswich with a bare minimum of 3 (preferably 4 points) to go into the tough run of games after. 

About sums it up for me. If we get a win tonight he could do himself a massive favour by giving it big licks to the home fans but I don't think he will. He's had plenty of chances to build the bridge he keeps talking about with the fans and he hasn't taken them yet. Showing any appreciation to the away end would be pretty suicidal given a lot of peoples opinion on him. 

[SafewayFox]

Just now, Webbo said:

Fair enough, I thought it was more but I couldn't be arsed to check.

F act is they did better than us, so the the evidence that we had a better team/ manager isn't there.

I think as others stated there are so many variables and the below two table comparisons highlight the higher quality of the top sides -

 

 

[Webbo]

6 minutes ago, mancunianfox said:

No Ipswich either to be fair, we were definitely under more pressure in the last third of the season than Burnley were. We should still have got more points than them though...

A team just promoted from league 1? Cooper won't forgiven if we don't beat them