Premier League 2024/25

[Fear Of The Fox]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

For Simeone to become the credible third horse in a 2 horse race is absolutely spectacular. 

 

In the last 20 years, 18 titles have been won by Real or Barcelona. Simeone has masterminded 2 wins out of those. Absolutely incredible feat. 

He's an incredible coach/manager. Most people don't like him because he's feisty etc but what he's doing at Atletico is legendary. All their games are a joy to watch, they fight until the last second, they might be 3-0 down by the 90th min and still turn the game around. There's no other team in the planet this season that has scored more 85+min goals and if I remember well it was the same at least the last 3 seasons. Maybe Leverkuzen had more last season idk. 

I think they'll win La Liga this season. 

I wish we had a manager like him, talented, tactically knowledgeable and committed to the club. Simeone will stay at Atletico until he's 70yr old I reckon. 

[pmcla26]

Pep Guardiola 

 

Near on total domination of the league for 7 years: meh 

 

10 game run: THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO PLAY FOOTBALL 

[pmcla26]

I think what Man City are lacking currently (looking at last night's lineup) is that Gundogan, De Bruyne, Walker and Bernardo Silva are no longer at their physical peaks. Grealish, Dias and Lewis aren't super athletic players either (in the context of the elite level they are more ball-players or Dias' strength lies in his reading of the game defensively rather than lightning pace or super-strength). Gvardiol, Haaland and Doku are the only three who you would say are athletic types at peak performance. 

 

They are all falling a yard off of it at the same time and collectively it's costing them. They need a squad refresh. 

 

It's a bit like when Man United all of a sudden fell off a cliff the season after Fergie left. 

[BKLFox]

Liverpool setting up a long haul pre-season to play a number of friendlies in Japan and Hong Kong.

These clubs continue to cry about fixture congestion and fatigue with little down time for player recovery both physically and mentally but will flog their own cash cows to squeeze every dime out of them with little safe guarding regard whatsoever then cry wolf.

[filbertway]

23 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Pep Guardiola 

 

Near on total domination of the league for 7 years: meh 

 

10 game run: THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO PLAY FOOTBALL 

The man's class and one of the few managers that have taken massive resources and put them to great use.

 

Again, there's a select few people that can't differentiate between "there isn't a correct way to play football, team tactics should be tailored to the abilities of the available player" and "O U FINK ALL TEEMS SHUD KIK IT LONG! DYNOSAW!"

 

Nothing I can do about that.

[Finnegan]

16 minutes ago, filbertway said:

The man's class and one of the few managers that have taken massive resources and put them to great use.

 

Again, there's a select few people that can't differentiate between "there isn't a correct way to play football, team tactics should be tailored to the abilities of the available player" and "O U FINK ALL TEEMS SHUD KIK IT LONG! DYNOSAW!"

 

Nothing I can do about that.

 

I don't really ever remember a conversation I've had or watched about football where someone has suggested there's only one way to play. 

 

What I do think is that Pep's approach is the best approach for breaking down and countering extreme bus-parking which makes it the most effective way of winning a league title as an extremely dominant team. 

 

This is ultimately why he's won as much as he has. It's frequently said that he plays the game on easy mode because he's only been at the big clubs but how many supposedly elite managers have we seen go in to massive clubs and fail to win? 

 

I think it's over simplistic to blame Man City's current problems on any one thing. I think you've got a bit of a perfect storm going on there at the moment and a little bit of everyone's opinion is right. It is a little bit about Rodri, it is his best players aging, it is the off the pitch disruption, it is a hangover from the last couple years push, it is proof of a divine presence having a laugh at Russell Martin's expense. 

 

Any one of these things alone is easy to overcome in isolation but it all piles up. 

 

Edited 12 December 2024 by Finnegan

[pmcla26]

22 minutes ago, filbertway said:

The man's class and one of the few managers that have taken massive resources and put them to great use.

 

Again, there's a select few people that can't differentiate between "there isn't a correct way to play football, team tactics should be tailored to the abilities of the available player" and "O U FINK ALL TEEMS SHUD KIK IT LONG! DYNOSAW!"

 

Nothing I can do about that.

I agree with what you are saying there in a broad perspective. 

 

The issue is where people don't realise that there are parts of Guardiola's tactics that aren't tiki-taka, especially in the most recent iterations of Man City or playing against the big sides. The lightning pace and directness of Sane and Sterling in transition previously, which he has tried to recreate with Doku and Savinho with not such great effect, aren't symptomatic of his teams pre mid-2010s. He said this was looking at how effective teams were in transition in the Premier League, and copied that. You also see since Haaland has been the focal point, a player running in behind as opposed to playing false 9 or as a deep-lying forward - this would have been much less effective in old Guardiola teams. With Haaland (particularly in his first season), they would put more crosses into the box than a Guardiola side ever has. Or in 22/23, when his back 4 would primarily be made of 4 natural central defenders (or 3 plus Walker), and it would be Stones as the extra man. This was also not symptomatic of a tiki-taka team. 

 

Basically, Pep adapts all the time, or his side very occasionally go into something resembling closer to what people have in their head as a counter-attacking team (against Bayern in one CL game in the last couple of years they sat in a mid-block 442 for large portions of the tie), but people are so fixated on this tiki-taka shape they have in their head that they don't notice the adaptations that Pep makes. 

Edited 12 December 2024 by pmcla26

[filbertway]

15 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't really ever remember a conversation I've had or watched about football where someone has suggested there's only one way to play. 

 

What I do think is that Pep's approach is the best approach for breaking down and countering extreme bus-parking which makes it the most effective way of winning a league title as an extremely dominant team. 

 

This is ultimately why he's won as much as he has. It's frequently said that he plays the game on easy mode because he's only been at the big clubs but how many supposedly elite managers have we seen go in to massive clubs and fail to win? 

 

I think it's over simplistic to blame Man City's current problems on any one thing. I think you've got a bit of a perfect storm going on there at the moment and a little bit of everyone's opinion is right. It is a little bit about Rodri, it is his best players aging, it is the off the pitch disruption, it is a hangover from the last couple years push, it is proof of a divine presence having a laugh at Russell Martin's expense. 

 

Any one of these things alone is easy to overcome in isolation but it all piles up. 

 

You ever spoke footie with @StriderHiryu?   

Pep's been incredible and I say again, he's a great manager. Few managers can maintain that kind of consistency over a long period of time. Especially when any other time, Klopp would have walked away with multiple league titles and trophies.

 

I realise you're taking exception to me saying that Rodri's absence is the only reason they're suffering, which is fair enough. Statistically though they have been conceding a higher number of chances and the highest average xG (i.e. better chances) in his absence. 

 

The fact that some very mediocre teams are finding it easy to combat them right now suggests to me that it's far from a coincidence. They don't really have anyone else that does that role. Not only his physical side, but he's also technically gifted enough to slot seamlessly into Pep's style.

Even the games they won just after Rodri's injury have all been close. Relying on Gvardiol and Stones to limp past a poor Wolves. Only beating Russel Martin's Saints 1-0. Couple of battering's against Prague and Bratislava. I'd fancy us to stick 3 or 4 past them.
 

It's probably fair to say it's somewhere in between, but I think Rodri being injured is a major cause of Man City's current struggles. The mans basically been an ever present for 4 years.

[Chelmofox]

24 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't really ever remember a conversation I've had or watched about football where someone has suggested there's only one way to play. 

 

What I do think is that Pep's approach is the best approach for breaking down and countering extreme bus-parking which makes it the most effective way of winning a league title as an extremely dominant team. 

 

This is ultimately why he's won as much as he has. It's frequently said that he plays the game on easy mode because he's only been at the big clubs but how many supposedly elite managers have we seen go in to massive clubs and fail to win? 

 

I think it's over simplistic to blame Man City's current problems on any one thing. I think you've got a bit of a perfect storm going on there at the moment and a little bit of everyone's opinion is right. It is a little bit about Rodri, it is his best players aging, it is the off the pitch disruption, it is a hangover from the last couple years push, it is proof of a divine presence having a laugh at Russell Martin's expense. 

 

Any one of these things alone is easy to overcome in isolation but it all piles up. 

 

I also wouldn't put it past him to start a massive season long unbeaten run starting on the the 29th.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

I think what Man City are lacking currently (looking at last night's lineup) is that Gundogan, De Bruyne, Walker and Bernardo Silva are no longer at their physical peaks. Grealish, Dias and Lewis aren't super athletic players either (in the context of the elite level they are more ball-players or Dias' strength lies in his reading of the game defensively rather than lightning pace or super-strength). Gvardiol, Haaland and Doku are the only three who you would say are athletic types at peak performance. 

 

They are all falling a yard off of it at the same time and collectively it's costing them. They need a squad refresh. 

 

It's a bit like when Man United all of a sudden fell off a cliff the season after Fergie left. 

Keen to get the opinions of others on here, but it is possible that the Premier League has "caught up to Guardiola"? When he first came arrived, teams were quite basic from a tactical point of view, so a team with a fixed structure AND world class players was a huge revolution. But in recent seasons, almost every team has a very tactically astute manager; Iraola, Glasner, Emery, etc. This is why Cooper and O'Neil struggled, these are managers that are from an older era and not used to the way the game has headed in.

 

Man City's squad has definitely passed it's sell by date and needs refreshing. But once it has been, will they be so dominant over the other teams? Chelsea have built a great young squad that plays a fixed structure with a great coach. So in games in the future between Man City and Chelsea, it probably comes down to who has the better squad, and this could be an area that other teams overtake Pep in.

 

For me this season the story of Man City isn't just about the decline of some players and key injuries, but also that other teams have identified clear weaknesses in their line up and exploited them.

 

 

Edited 12 December 2024 by StriderHiryu

[fox_favourite]

8 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Keen to get the opinions of others on here, but it is possible that the Premier League has "caught up to Guardiola"? When he first came arrived, teams were quite basic from a tactical point of view, so a team with a fixed structure AND world class players was a huge revolution. But in recent seasons, almost every team has a very tactically astute manager; Iraola, Glasner, Emery, etc. This is why Cooper and O'Neil struggled, these are managers that are from an older era and not used to the way the game has headed in.

 

Man City's squad has definitely passed it's sell by date and needs refreshing. But once it has been, will they be so dominant over the other teams? Chelsea have built a great young squad that plays a fixed structure with a great coach. So in games in the future between Man City and Chelsea, it probably comes down to who has the better squad, and this could be an area that other teams overtake Pep in.

I think you're right to an extent, but they are going through a crisis of confidence, as they're struggling in Europe as well. So its much more than that 

 

They've been so used to dominating the English game and now they've had a wobble and players are out of form, they don't know how to rectify it. They have injuries as well, they may well have ran out of steam. 

 

Just to add - Cooper struggled because he was completely poo in any age of football. for us and was wrong person at the wrong time. 

Edited 12 December 2024 by fox_favourite

[pmcla26]

11 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Keen to get the opinions of others on here, but it is possible that the Premier League has "caught up to Guardiola"? When he first came arrived, teams were quite basic from a tactical point of view, so a team with a fixed structure AND world class players was a huge revolution. But in recent seasons, almost every team has a very tactically astute manager; Iraola, Glasner, Emery, etc. This is why Cooper and O'Neil struggled, these are managers that are from an older era and not used to the way the game has headed in.

 

Man City's squad has definitely passed it's sell by date and needs refreshing. But once it has been, will they be so dominant over the other teams? Chelsea have built a great young squad that plays a fixed structure with a great coach. So in games in the future between Man City and Chelsea, it probably comes down to who has the better squad, and this could be an area that other teams overtake Pep in.

I think they won't be as dominant, as you'll have Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool all putting up challenges rather than just one side (first Liverpool under Klopp, lately Arsenal). 

 

Signing Zubimendi/Angelo Stiller to fill the Rodri void in january, then letting De Bruyne and Bernardo Silva go in the summer and replacing them with Wirtz, and Foden getting his prominent role at last would go some way to fixing things. Replacing Walker will be hard as their aren't many great right-backs out there that aren't at the top clubs already (I think Frimpong is better further forward - be more suited to Amorim's Man United than Guardiola), unless they relegate him to back up and Lewis is the starter full-time. 

 

Could do with another centre-back too that is of John Stones' quality that is available more often than he is. 

Edited 12 December 2024 by pmcla26

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Keen to get the opinions of others on here, but it is possible that the Premier League has "caught up to Guardiola"?

 

I mean, they're the reigning champions and lost only 3 games last year scoring just short of 100 goals. That's an improvement on the previous season (when they did the a treble) and is consistent with the season before.

 

It's probably a little bit extreme to suggest any kind of twilight for Guardiola. I don't think you can quite "catch him up" because he's just about the best in the world at what he does. He's far more than the sum of his preferred tactical approach. There's also that he's extremely good at coaching and organising footballers, he's extremely good at watching a game of football and seeing the space and opportunities available on the field. If you think of football as a chess game, tactically, which it sort of is - he's Magnus Carlsen. If Pep was forced to go back to the drawing board and reinvent himself, I suspect he'd do a much better job of it than Jose Mourinho, for example, because he has those gifts and that's probably why his career has had such consistent longevity. It was easier for Mourinho to be sussed out by the footballing world.

 

I think we've been here before with Pep, there's a very obvious financial incentive out there for the media to sensationalise Man City's situation and to come up with dramatic narratives to sell the story of woe. I just think ultimately they're going through a wonky spell and they'll (probably) turn it around.

 

Unless, of course, the fact the players DO know about looming off-field catastrophe really is tanking their morale and motivation in which case the coach is dealing with something that's going to be fairly unprecedented for him and, sure, they probably won't do much recovery but then that's not really a footballing issue.

 

[StriderHiryu]

10 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

I think you're right to an extent, but they are going through a crisis of confidence, as they're struggling in Europe as well. So its much more than that 

 

They've been so used to dominating the English game and now they've had a wobble and players are out of form, they don't know how to rectify it. They have injuries as well, they may well have ran out of steam. 

 

Just to add - Cooper struggled because he was completely poo in any age of football. for us and was wrong person at the wrong time. 

Yep more than anything this team reminds me of many great teams from the past that were clearly past their sell by date. The last Man United team that won the league, Arsenal when Man United beat them 8-2, Man United a few seasons after they won the treble, etc, etc.

 

But I think the difference this time is that I'm not sure they will be back to being as dominant as they were. Chelsea were a clown show for a long time, but it's hard not to see them becoming the dominant force for a few seasons. Caiceido and Palmer are world class, a few more might hit that category, especially given they've got the most promising Brazillian youngster in many years joining next season.

 

At the same time, it's hard to bet against Pep. The guy has fundamentally changed football forever, and you'd write him off at your peril!

[fox_up_north]

It will be quite something if Slot comes in and wins the league in his first season with a squad "in need of a refresh" 

[UniFox21]

1 minute ago, fox_up_north said:

It will be quite something if Slot comes in and wins the league in his first season with a squad "in need of a refresh" 

Thing to consider is something needed a refresh, whether that be the playing squad or the coaching squad. They went for the latter and the side has kicked on. 

[Mike1983]

Not sure I agree with him. Very stubborn and poor manager.

[JimJams]

He's a moron in well over his head.  Either his pride means he can't see it or his ego means he won't admit it, but he's limited to playing a losing game.  He should be grateful that Southampton have no ambition.

[fox_up_north]

Honestly he should just come out and say it's the children who are wrong

[Leicesterpool]

5 hours ago, Mike1983 said:

Not sure I agree with him. Very stubborn and poor manager.

Well he thinks that why not step down, he's picking the team and tactics. Hes probably another Scott Parker, very good in championship but woeful in the Premier League.

[K789]

10 hours ago, Mike1983 said:

Not sure I agree with him. Very stubborn and poor manager.

In fairness he's right. Brighton they were robbed and against us too

[MattFox]

5 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

Well he thinks that why not step down, he's picking the team and tactics. Hes probably another Scott Parker, very good in championship but woeful in the Premier League.

He wasn’t that good in the Championship either

[Fox92]

13 hours ago, JimJams said:

He's a moron in well over his head.  Either his pride means he can't see it or his ego means he won't admit it, but he's limited to playing a losing game.  He should be grateful that Southampton have no ambition.

I would hate to support Southampton at this moment. Over the last decade they have lost anything they had about them. Then watching some of the goals they concede, time and time again, just because the manager doesn't want to change. Must be pretty boring heading to their games.

[moore_94]

Not really much of a punishment is it

 

Brighton & Hove Albion have been fined £20,000 by the Premier League for breaking youth development rules.

 

They have also received a six-month ban, suspended for one year, from registering any academy players currently or previously registered with another club.

 

 

[Torten]

19 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I would hate to support Southampton at this moment. Over the last decade they have lost anything they had about them. Then watching some of the goals they concede, time and time again, just because the manager doesn't want to change. Must be pretty boring heading to their games.

You can hear the boos whenever they attempt to play out of the back. I feel for Martin, he deserves to manage somewhere more appreciative of his generational genius.