General News

[Super_horns]

 

A sign of things to come for both Labour and Reform ?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6v02vv6wo

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Super_horns

[Sly]

Just now, Lionator said:

With the current state of play I think an economically left wing approach would be very popular. 
 

Reform are going to sweep votes because a large proportion of the country think that migration is to blame for all of this country’s problems. To a certain degree I think it is an issue but on the basis that it’s a symptom of the broken system. They’ll soon get a shock when things remain the same or get even worse. The economy as it is cannot run without migration. 

The thing is, we are a small island. 
 

A small island, that has always had migration.

 

The difference now it, that social media massively highlights this. 
 

I was suspecting a reform clean sweep.

 

I think a lot of it is, people are

rebelling against the Conservatives still and the disastrous start that Labour are perceived to have had.
 

Reform has become a viable third option for a large number of people, as like you say, the issues that are constantly portrayed, have an underlining notion that is tied back to “people coming over on boats”, who have a different culture. 

[leicsmac]

It's darkly ironic that at the same time Canada is (thankfully) rejecting Trumpian politics wholeheartedly, some in the UK are bound and determined to embrace it. Perhaps Trump should directly threaten the UK's sovereignty, too?

 

If it's being done as a "protest vote" or not has zero effect on the consequences of such choices for everyone and doesn't mean much imo.

[Sampson]

18 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's darkly ironic that at the same time Canada is (thankfully) rejecting Trumpian politics wholeheartedly, some in the UK are bound and determined to embrace it. Perhaps Trump should directly threaten the UK's sovereignty, too?

 

If it's being done as a "protest vote" or not has zero effect on the consequences of such choices for everyone and doesn't mean much imo.

It’s baffling to me that neither Labour or the LibDems aren’t going after Farage being Trumpian with huge billboards of all his quotes fawning over Trump and Musk. It’s an age of populism, you have to fight dirty to fight it. But in the UK, all the other parties seemed so scared of Farage they just didn’t engage with him. 
 

Trump is deeply unpopular in UK polls and we’ve seen how being a right wing populist after Trump got elected completely reversed  their fortunes in Canada and Australia after people got to see what all this means in practice. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Sampson

[when_you're_smiling]

57 minutes ago, Sly said:

The thing is, we are a small island. 
 

A small island, that has always had migration.

 

The difference now it, that social media massively highlights this. 
 

I was suspecting a reform clean sweep.

 

I think a lot of it is, people are

rebelling against the Conservatives still and the disastrous start that Labour are perceived to have had.
 

Reform has become a viable third option for a large number of people, as like you say, the issues that are constantly portrayed, have an underlining notion that is tied back to “people coming over on boats”, who have a different culture. 

Nah worries over immigration are pretty much ever present in any country and well pre-dates social media.

 

Even Australia has the ‘we’re full up’ anti-immigration and passed controversial legislation against immigrants last year, and that’s 90 per cent empty.

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Sampson said:

It’s baffling to me that neither Labour or the LibDems aren’t going after Farage being Trumpian with huge billboards of all his quotes fawning over Trump and Musk. It’s an age of populism, you have to fight dirty to fight it. But in the UK, all the other parties seemed so scared of Farage they just didn’t engage either him. 
 

Trump is deeply unpopular in UK polls and we’ve seen how being a right wing populist after Trump got elected completely reversed  their fortunes in Canada and Australia after people got to see what all this means in practice. 

Exactly.

 

Everyone knows what Trump stands for and it would be both easy and (IMO) effective to link him directly to Farage and Reform. I can't think of a good reason why Labour and the Lib Dems aren't doing so.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, Sly said:

The thing is, we are a small island. 
 

A small island, that has always had migration.

 

The difference now it, that social media massively highlights this. 
 

I was suspecting a reform clean sweep.

 

I think a lot of it is, people are

rebelling against the Conservatives still and the disastrous start that Labour are perceived to have had.
 

Reform has become a viable third option for a large number of people, as like you say, the issues that are constantly portrayed, have an underlining notion that is tied back to “people coming over on boats”, who have a different culture. 

They won’t be able to fix any of that either unless they go full on fascist which I doubt. 

[Lionator]

Interesting analysis of the minerals deal from a pro-Ukrainian and a good author. Basically it signs away Ukraine’s sovereignty. 

 

[purpleronnie]

1 hour ago, Sly said:

The thing is, we are a small island. 
 

A small island, that has always had migration.

 

The difference now it, that social media massively highlights this. 
 

I was suspecting a reform clean sweep.

 

I think a lot of it is, people are

rebelling against the Conservatives still and the disastrous start that Labour are perceived to have had.
 

Reform has become a viable third option for a large number of people, as like you say, the issues that are constantly portrayed, have an underlining notion that is tied back to “people coming over on boats”, who have a different culture. 

It's a bit like brexit, lot's of promises that some people realised are lies but plenty believe or at least want to believe.

 

Just like the vast sways of the public that have been brainwashed into believing people coming over on boats effects there lives in a terrible way.  Most people won't research and realise we closed safe routes increasing illegal crossings (which doesnt make those crossing illegal BTW), They also don't know there were cuts creating huge backlogs and meaning they have put a some asylum seekers into hotels.

 

They also believe they are 'all' coming here, despite pretty much every other country taking more than we do, they also believe they are coming here for benefits despite asylum seekers receiving more in other countries.

 

But the bottom line all the information is out there if you care to look, most don't but do WANT to believe it, which makes you wonder if when it all comes down to it they just dont like foreigners.

Edited 14 hours ago by purpleronnie

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

They won’t be able to fix any of that either unless they go full on fascist which I doubt. 

Tbf they want to leave the ECHR and replace it with their own constitution. One can only imagine what a Reform written constitution looks like. The Tories also shat out some pretty rotten laws which are primed for some populist to abuse about the home secretary being able to shut down any protest they like, and to be able to strip the citizenship off people. 
 

I also wonder whether the UK has less genuine protections against authoritarianism in terms of not having a constitution. The ECJ and ECHR offer us plenty of protection and the ECJ in particular was a very important check and balance in stopping Poland go full authoritarianism under their last government when the government were trying to go after their Supreme Court judges.
 

However, Farage’s first port of call I image would be to leave the ECJ and ECHR. He’s even got Jenrick and Badenoch eating out of his hands in that regard in case of a coalition.

Edited 13 hours ago by Sampson

[Lionator]

28 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Tbf they want to leave the ECHR and replace it with their own constitution. One can only imagine what a Reform written constitution looks like. The Tories also shat out some pretty rotten laws which are primed for some populist to abuse about the him secretary being able to shut down any protest they like, and to be able to strip the citizenship off people. 
 

I also wonder whether the UK has less genuine protections against authoritarianism in terms of not having a constitution. The ECJ and ECHR offer us plenty of protection and the ECJ in particular was a very important check and balance in stopping Poland go full authoritarianism under their last government when the government were trying to go after their Supreme Court judges.
 

However, Farage’s first port of call I image would be to leave the ECJ and ECHR. He’s even got Jenrick and Vadenoch eating out of his hands in that regard in case of a coalition.

But then what happens when little changes (or gets worse)? Do they push further? Thinking that European bureaucracy is the barrier to all this country thriving is so stupid, it barely feels worth engaging with but here we are.

 

I get that people are massively disenfranchised, I’m on the left I genuinely would struggle to vote for any of the parties in a way other than tactically. 

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Lionator said:

But then what happens when little changes (or gets worse)? Do they push further? Thinking that European bureaucracy is the barrier to all this country thriving is so stupid, it barely feels worth engaging with but here we are.

 

I get that people are massively disenfranchised, I’m on the left I genuinely would struggle to vote for any of the parties in a way other than tactically. 

You're making the mistake of assuming a lot of people act logically or rationally.

[st albans fox]

Is there evidence that the rump of reform supporters (and potential reform voters) are anti trump ??

Edited 13 hours ago by st albans fox

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Is there evidence that the rump of reform supporters (and potential reform voters) are anti trump ??

Can you please elaborate here?

[Sampson]

5 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Is there evidence that the rump of reform supporters (and potential reform voters) are anti trump ??

According to yougov only 16% of uk people like Trump and 66% dislike him. Even in terms of pure numbers of Reform or Reform curious voters, that’s a lot more than those who like Trump

 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Donald_Trump

 

Edit: Same in terms of this:

 

Do you think the world is a better or worse place since Donald Trump came to power? (Poll in UK)

 

Much better - 5%
Slightly better - 6%
Neither better or worse - 13%
Slightly worse - 17%
Much worse - 53%
Don’t know - 7%

 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2025/04/30/c5920/1

Edited 13 hours ago by Sampson

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Interesting analysis of the minerals deal from a pro-Ukrainian and a good author. Basically it signs away Ukraine’s sovereignty. 

 

Not sure about some of his interpretations 

 

 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Can you please elaborate here?

Sampson has provided a yougov poll 

 

1 minute ago, Sampson said:

According to yougov only 16% of uk people like Trump and 66% dislike him. Even in terms of pure numbers of Reform or Reform curious voters, that’s a lot more than those who like Trump

 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Donald_Trump

I wonder if that will change if we get an Ukraine/russia ceasefire agreement which the Ukrainians say they’re in approval of. 
 

I’m not convinced that a large chunk on the right of our politics aren’t envious of the way trump says what he’s doing to do and then does it ( which is what their SM feeds is telling them even though that’s not what’s happening ) 

 

[ealingfox]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Sampson has provided a yougov poll 

 

I wonder if that will change if we get an Ukraine/russia ceasefire agreement which the Ukrainians say they’re in approval of. 
 

I’m not convinced that a large chunk on the right of our politics aren’t envious of the way trump says what he’s doing to do and then does it ( which is what their SM feeds is telling them even though that’s not what’s happening ) 

 

 

He said he'd end the Russian invasion of Ukraine within 24 hours of taking office didn't he

 

[davieG]

James Chater
BBC News
Published
4 hours ago
US Vice-President JD Vance has said the war in Ukraine is "not going to end any time soon", in an interview with Fox News.

Vance said the question facing the US administration now was how it could help Russia and Ukraine "find middle ground" to end the conflict that has been raging for more than three years.

But, Vance added, "it's going to be up to [Russia and Ukraine] to come to an agreement and stop this brutal, brutal conflict".

His comments came shortly after Washington signed a deal with Kyiv to share the profits of Ukraine's rare earth minerals in return for future US security assistance.

Vance made the comments in a wide-ranging interview, in which he defended Trump's approach to the war in Ukraine.

"Yes, of course, [the Ukrainians] are angry that they were invaded," he said. "But are we going to continue to lose thousands and thousands of soldiers over a few miles of territory this or that way?"

Trump suggested this week that Ukraine might be willing to cede Crimea - which Russia invaded in 2014 - in order to reach a truce settlement.

But Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky had earlier implied that he would be unable to accept Russian control of the peninsula, citing the Ukrainian constitution.

In a separate interview with Fox News on Thursday, US Secretary of State Marco Rubio said there needed to be a "breakthrough" in the conflict soon, otherwise Trump "will have to decide how much time to dedicate to this".

Russian President Vladimir Putin this week announced a temporary three-day ceasefire from 8 May, to coincide with anniversary celebrations marking the end of World War Two.

Ukraine's foreign minister, Andrii Sybiha, called for an immediate 30-day ceasefire in response.

But fighting between the two countries has continued.

On Thursday night, a Russian drone attack on Ukraine's south-eastern city of Zaporizhzhia injured 14 people, but caused no deaths.

Separately, Moscow accused Ukraine of using drones to target a market in Russia-controlled southern Ukraine, also on Thursday. Seven were killed and more than 20 were injured, according to Russian officials.

Kyiv denied the accusations, adding that the attack was only targeted at military personnel.

[Trav Le Bleu]

54 minutes ago, Sampson said:

According to yougov only 16% of uk people like Trump and 66% dislike him. Even in terms of pure numbers of Reform or Reform curious voters, that’s a lot more than those who like Trump

 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Donald_Trump

 

Edit: Same in terms of this:

 

Do you think the world is a better or worse place since Donald Trump came to power? (Poll in UK)

 

Much better - 5%
Slightly better - 6%
Neither better or worse - 13%
Slightly worse - 17%
Much worse - 53%
Don’t know - 7%

 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2025/04/30/c5920/1

Who said much better?

 

[leicsmac]

51 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Sampson has provided a yougov poll 

 

I wonder if that will change if we get an Ukraine/russia ceasefire agreement which the Ukrainians say they’re in approval of. 
 

I’m not convinced that a large chunk on the right of our politics aren’t envious of the way trump says what he’s doing to do and then does it ( which is what their SM feeds is telling them even though that’s not what’s happening ) 

 

Appreciate that clarification.

 

It's a juxtaposition for me that Trump is (with very good reason) strongly disliked in the UK but then you seemingly have a lot of people ready to vote for policies he would himself implement.

[Torquay Gunner]

Poor Donnie.  He just can't handle any push back in his interviews.  Wonder why he chose ABC and not his usual Fox mouthpiece?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/30/trump-abc-news-terry-moran

 

 

[Lionator]

It strikes me that we’re in some kind of a vicious circle of parties having to appeal to older voters because they’re core voters, but a big chunk of the economic problems in this country are caused by the needs of older people (I don’t advocate killing old people to solve our issues). Thus to pander to them, you have to cut off younger people who then become less likely to vote. Therefore you’re stuck in a short termist doom spiral where nothing actually changes for the better.

[ClaphamFox]

South Park's take on Trump's immigration policies:

 

https://x.com/hissgoescobra/status/1917953395610034188

[Sampson]

8 minutes ago, Lionator said:

It strikes me that we’re in some kind of a vicious circle of parties having to appeal to older voters because they’re core voters, but a big chunk of the economic problems in this country are caused by the needs of older people (I don’t advocate killing old people to solve our issues). Thus to pander to them, you have to cut off younger people who then become less likely to vote. Therefore you’re stuck in a short termist doom spiral where nothing actually changes for the better.

I’ve said before - population ageing causes a massive threat to democracy for this reason. You essentially have to placate the demographic that objectively costs the most money for the state leaving them with decreasing spend in other areas. Until people get sick of it and vote for some populist who claims they’ll solve all their problems. 
 

The world has never really faced population demographics of mostly older people before so we still don’t really know how to deal with it.