Give the young players game time, if other clubs can why don't we?

[when_you're_smiling]

17 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Definitely not  But singling out one guy as the cause for the loss is equally mental to that suggestion.

 

If you claim you didn't do the above then I'm not sure what your point was

 

 

He wasn’t responsible for the loss. The point is that just throwing them in can destroy their confidence and stall development. Slot presumably felt he had enough on the pitch to win the game so blooded a few youngsters. There’s virtually no games where you can say this season we’ll have enough on the pitch to win and comfortably be able to do that. It’ll probably only happen when we’re mathematically down.

 

For example, there seemed to be a few on the match thread upset that Monga didn’t come on when Mcateer did. He’d have had to spend much of the game tracking back on Garnacho who’s substitution turned the game their way. Slinging on a 15-year-old and telling him to concentrate most on making sure he’s tracking back on their best player on his pro debut would have been a dreadful thing to do to the lad. 

[filbertway]

Just now, when_you're_smiling said:

He wasn’t responsible for the loss. The point is that just throwing them in can destroy their confidence and stall development. Slot presumably felt he had enough on the pitch to win the game so blooded a few youngsters. There’s virtually no games where you can say this season we’ll have enough on the pitch to win and comfortably be able to do that. It’ll probably only happen when we’re mathematically down.

 

For example, there seemed to be a few on the match thread upset that Monga didn’t come on when Mcateer did. He’d have had to spend much of the game tracking back on Garnacho who’s substitution turned the game their way. Slinging on a 15-year-old and telling him to concentrate most on making sure he’s tracking back on their best player on his pro debut would have been a dreadful thing to do to the lad. 

Although with the benefit of hindsight, all that delicious experience let Garnacho have all the freedom he wanted to put about 20 crosses into the box.

 

Monga could easily have gone on the left wing in your example, he plays off both sides.

 

There will always be excuses made for not blooding youngsters. I've seen them all consistently for nearly 10 years now. Promotion race, relegation fight, we need to fnish as high as possible because each place is worth £2m. There's never a situation where people can't find an excuse. 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points above btw.

 

I think as a club we've decided we prefer experience and players generally have to be about 22/23 before we give them a chance. I'd prefer we were a club that had an ethos of developing young players in order to play a part in our first team or to sell on for profit. I think as a club you have to commit to one or the other. Unfortunately we've committed to experience, but we're terrible at selling players on as well, so we've got ourselves into a position where we probably have 2 players that people would be willing to pay decent money for

 

[when_you're_smiling]

14 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Although with the benefit of hindsight, all that delicious experience let Garnacho have all the freedom he wanted to put about 20 crosses into the box.

 

Monga could easily have gone on the left wing in your example, he plays off both sides.

 

There will always be excuses made for not blooding youngsters. I've seen them all consistently for nearly 10 years now. Promotion race, relegation fight, we need to fnish as high as possible because each place is worth £2m. There's never a situation where people can't find an excuse. 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points above btw.

 

I think as a club we've decided we prefer experience and players generally have to be about 22/23 before we give them a chance. I'd prefer we were a club that had an ethos of developing young players in order to play a part in our first team or to sell on for profit. I think as a club you have to commit to one or the other. Unfortunately we've committed to experience, but we're terrible at selling players on as well, so we've got ourselves into a position where we probably have 2 players that people would be willing to pay decent money for

 

Yeah, sadly there’s definitely an element of us going away from signing young, hungry up and coming players in a way that doomed Stoke and Sunderland before us.

[An Away Move]

21 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

This is what Sheffield Utd did and it has certainly helped them so far, it's not as if the likes of Ayew, Vestergaard, Coady, Winks etc are showing any form of leadership and end product anyway.

When those players come to the end of their contracts some of our younger players who couldn’t get a look in will also be up for renewal. I am convinced some will choose to leave on Bosman’s. This is why the club is so badly run. Not enough integration now, nor strategic foresight. 

[pmcla26]

Surely Bobby Reid, Jordan Ayew and Jamie Vardy have the oldest combined age of any front 3 in the Premier League? 

[oxtonfox]

2 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

Surely Bobby Reid, Jordan Ayew and Jamie Vardy have the oldest combined age of any front 3 in the Premier League? 

No team plays with that age of frontline other than us. Forest have Wood but he’s just one up top. 

[1972 Fox]

8 hours ago, john ridley said:

May not trust em ,but I don't  trust the so called  experienced players that fvck up time after time ,season after season ,things need to change .I'm  old enough  to remember the last manager to do this ,Jock Wallace ,what I'd  give for a manager like him to come in .

Agreed on Jock Wallace. Great times and even though we weren't good enough to stay up after winning promotion to the top flight, our youngsters played with passion and fight.

 

I also recall him signing one John Ridley from Port Vale in 1978, although not one of Jocks better signings.

[deep blue]

Just now, when_you're_smiling said:

He wasn’t responsible for the loss. The point is that just throwing them in can destroy their confidence and stall development. Slot presumably felt he had enough on the pitch to win the game so blooded a few youngsters. There’s virtually no games where you can say this season we’ll have enough on the pitch to win and comfortably be able to do that. It’ll probably only happen when we’re mathematically down.

 

For example, there seemed to be a few on the match thread upset that Monga didn’t come on when Mcateer did. He’d have had to spend much of the game tracking back on Garnacho who’s substitution turned the game their way. Slinging on a 15-year-old and telling him to concentrate most on making sure he’s tracking back on their best player on his pro debut would have been a dreadful thing to do to the lad. 

But there's an alternative way of looking at it.  If Monga could have been supplied with the ball and started to run at the Man U defence then that could have forced Garnacho to stay back to track him.  Monga running at the Man U defence could have had the additional effects of unnerving Man U and giving a fillip to our own players, and of course giving us a chance of snatching the winner. By making a negative sub (McAteer) it simply helped to put us more and more under pressure so that their winner was almost inevitable.

 

Of course, it's a case of ifs & buts, but I'd always go for the more positive option.

[when_you're_smiling]

18 minutes ago, deep blue said:

But there's an alternative way of looking at it.  If Monga could have been supplied with the ball and started to run at the Man U defence then that could have forced Garnacho to stay back to track him.  Monga running at the Man U defence could have had the additional effects of unnerving Man U and giving a fillip to our own players, and of course giving us a chance of snatching the winner. By making a negative sub (McAteer) it simply helped to put us more and more under pressure so that their winner was almost inevitable.

 

Of course, it's a case of ifs & buts, but I'd always go for the more positive option.

I mean, possibly, but who do you think is most likely to get the better and worry about the other? An Argentine international with a fair few seasons of first team Prem football behind him or a 15-year-old debutant?

[john ridley]

2 hours ago, 1972 Fox said:

Agreed on Jock Wallace. Great times and even though we weren't good enough to stay up after winning promotion to the top flight, our youngsters played with passion and fight.

 

I also recall him signing one John Ridley from Port Vale in 1978, although not one of Jocks better signings.

No,possibly  not and there were a few others as well  but those few years were great ,thought we were going to beat everybody ,or though could've been as a 17 yr old thought Jock was god 

[majaco]

We have 9 sub places.   Our subs aren't that good.  There should be a place for an academy player on the bench every week (and I don't mean McAteer or Thomas)

[Chelmofox]

12 minutes ago, majaco said:

We have 9 sub places.   Our subs aren't that good.  There should be a place for an academy player on the bench every week (and I don't mean McAteer or Thomas)

Jakub then. 

[deep blue]

Just now, when_you're_smiling said:

I mean, possibly, but who do you think is most likely to get the better and worry about the other? An Argentine international with a fair few seasons of first team Prem football behind him or a 15-year-old debutant?

Only one way to find out!!

[dayday]

On 10/02/2025 at 13:26, when_you're_smiling said:

He wasn’t responsible for the loss. The point is that just throwing them in can destroy their confidence and stall development. Slot presumably felt he had enough on the pitch to win the game so blooded a few youngsters. There’s virtually no games where you can say this season we’ll have enough on the pitch to win and comfortably be able to do that. It’ll probably only happen when we’re mathematically down.

 

For example, there seemed to be a few on the match thread upset that Monga didn’t come on when Mcateer did. He’d have had to spend much of the game tracking back on Garnacho who’s substitution turned the game their way. Slinging on a 15-year-old and telling him to concentrate most on making sure he’s tracking back on their best player on his pro debut would have been a dreadful thing to do to the lad. 

I remember Joachim and Heskey when they started out, if you are  good enough you’re old enough 

[LCFCJohn]

Myles Lewis-Skelly (18) and Ethan Nwaneri (17) key parts of an Arsenal team with (albeit drifting) title ambitions but certainly looking to qualify for the Champions League.

 

But we can’t give our young players a chance until they are about 23 as it’s ’too risky’.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

18 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

Myles Lewis-Skelly (18) and Ethan Nwaneri (17) key parts of an Arsenal team with (albeit drifting) title ambitions but certainly looking to qualify for the Champions League.

 

But we can’t give our young players a chance until they are about 23 as it’s ’too risky’.

 

 

What Jake Evans is doing at 16 in the PL2 is on a par/better than Nwaneri last season. That doesn't mean he's guaranteed to be as devastating but it's surely worth discovering.

 

It's incredibly unique for a 16 year old to be this dominant even at U21 level. His goals and assists in PL2, U18, FA Youth Cup and PL2 Cup this season is 15 in 17 games.

[LCFCJohn]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

What Jake Evans is doing at 16 in the PL2 is on a par/better than Nwaneri last season. That doesn't mean he's guaranteed to be as devastating but it's surely worth discovering.

 

It's incredibly unique for a 16 year old to be this dominant even at U21 level. His goals and assists in PL2, U18, FA Youth Cup and PL2 Cup this season is 15 in 17 games.

Yep. No doubt the route is multiple loans to League 2 or maybe 1 then releasing him though.

 

The club is just rotten. That goes for the fan base too. The problem is, most of those in the stadium will be straight on the back of young players is they don’t look like world beaters on their debut.

 

Luke Thomas for example. He was thrown in without any loans and is he such an awful player? I don’t think so. I think he had his good moments that showed there could have been a player in there and bad moments as a young player coming into the environment he did would.

 

But he got pelters, was written off and never seemed to come back from it mentally. 

[justfoxes]

So much hype about some of our young lads coming through the ranks alike Jake Evans who seems to be scoring for fun,  so let’s try this lad out against Brentford and hope we can find our goal machine because at the moment we’re fuching struggling to get the ball in the net and this lad certainly knows where it is!

Also Jeremy Monga who’s been raved about so much let’s give these lads some game time before someone else comes in for them and snatches them away from us !

[LCFCJohn]

8 minutes ago, justfoxes said:

So much hype about some of our young lads coming through the ranks alike Jake Evans who seems to be scoring for fun,  so let’s try this lad out against Brentford and hope we can find our goal machine because at the moment we’re fuching struggling to get the ball in the net and this lad certainly knows where it is!

Also Jeremy Monga who’s been raved about so much let’s give these lads some game time before someone else comes in for them and snatches them away from us !

Even just some minutes off the bench (and i don’t mean 2 minutes at the end).

 

Do we really need Vestergaard and Coady on the bench? Same with Skipp and Winks. 
 

Just try something different…

[davieG]

Even 10/15 mins will give them experience and climatization of a big crowd and better opposition. It's all about experience not whether they can turn us into a winning team. We know what the regular 9 subs are capable/incapable of so only need cover and a tweak in tactics

[SkidsFox]

On 12/02/2025 at 16:26, dayday said:

I remember Joachim and Heskey when they started out, if you are  good enough you’re old enough 

Yep. Some of us remember Jock Wallace being prepared to use the youngsters like Peake, Buchanan, Lineker...didn't always work out, but it meant the established players couldn't rest on their laurels. 

[honeybradger]

Genuinely the club is so rotten to have young players like Evans and Monga available whilst having the starting wingers be Ayew and Cordova reid and not even give the first two any first team minutes.  

[when_you're_smiling]

On 12/02/2025 at 16:26, dayday said:

I remember Joachim and Heskey when they started out, if you are  good enough you’re old enough 

That illustrates my point Joachim was blooded into a mostly winning promotion chasing second tier side. Heskey played one game in the middle of the 94/95 season, then didn’t get a single minute (I don’t think) after that until he was blooded in a promotion chasing team the year after.

[Foxmeister]

On 10/02/2025 at 16:57, pmcla26 said:

Surely Bobby Reid, Jordan Ayew and Jamie Vardy have the oldest combined age of any front 3 in the Premier League? 

It won't be long before they qualify for walking football.

[Foxmeister]

3 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

That illustrates my point Joachim was blooded into a mostly winning promotion chasing second tier side. Heskey played one game in the middle of the 94/95 season, then didn’t get a single minute (I don’t think) after that until he was blooded in a promotion chasing team the year after.

As I recall Heskey's debut was as a result of injuries in the days of much smaller squads.