General News Thread

[Free Falling Foxes]

Bridge hit yet again.

Does this bridge not have those warning wires stretching across the approaches?

I noticed last week that the railway bridge on Saffron Lane, as you head down from Aylestone Road, has them.

These are the same height as the bridge and would give you plenty of warning by snagging the top of your wagon/lorry/bus if you were too tall.

[Trav Le Bleu]

17 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Bridge hit yet again.

Does this bridge not have those warning wires stretching across the approaches?

I noticed last week that the railway bridge on Saffron Lane, as you head down from Aylestone Road, has them.

These are the same height as the bridge and would give you plenty of warning by snagging the top of your wagon/lorry/bus if you were too tall.

I think often it's incorrect satnav data and people stupidly choose (surely a computer can't be wrong!) the onscreen info rather than the very clear and accurate signs that have been there for years.

[ramboacdc]

4 hours ago, davieG said:

The sad thing is woodworking, metalwork and cooking were in all schools in the past, sure the curriculum needed updating but they closed them down in pursuit of of University placings.

 

Also even companies employing apprentices it's the first thing to go along with training in general when budgets need to be tightened often before a takeover.

I dont think things like metalwork need to come back, and i remember how pointless it was me sitting in Textiles class for half a year, but I really think economics needs to be a thing. How interest works and other basic banking stuff, how to budget, even basic shit like what a mortgage is and what pensions do. So many dont know any of that and I didn't learn it until I moved out at 19. I didn't know what council tax was until I moved out. Literally called them up and asked if I had to pay that much as I wasnt in all the time 🤣

[Trav Le Bleu]

4 minutes ago, ramboacdc said:

I dont think things like metalwork need to come back, and i remember how pointless it was me sitting in Textiles class for half a year, but I really think economics needs to be a thing. How interest works and other basic banking stuff, how to budget, even basic shit like what a mortgage is and what pensions do. So many dont know any of that and I didn't learn it until I moved out at 19. I didn't know what council tax was until I moved out. Literally called them up and asked if I had to pay that much as I wasnt in all the time 🤣

More than just economics. Home economics, get kids to learn, not just to cook properly, but how to manage a house and repair stuff.

 

Getting people away from takeaways, ready meals and fast fashion will go quite a way to curing modern life's ailments.

 

Unfortunately, these things require doing things for yourself. Apparently, equality means even the working class can be waited on hand and foot, like the elite of 100 years ago, when what might have been better was everyone meeting somewhere in the middle.

[davieG]

8 minutes ago, ramboacdc said:

I dont think things like metalwork need to come back, and i remember how pointless it was me sitting in Textiles class for half a year, but I really think economics needs to be a thing. How interest works and other basic banking stuff, how to budget, even basic shit like what a mortgage is and what pensions do. So many dont know any of that and I didn't learn it until I moved out at 19. I didn't know what council tax was until I moved out. Literally called them up and asked if I had to pay that much as I wasnt in all the time 🤣

Of course they should be standard fare but home economics (cooking), DIY, woodwork, household electrics,  bricklaying (for housebuilding) they don't have to do them all but some of these will be way more beneficial to some students than physics/chemistry.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, davieG said:

Of course they should be standard fare but home economics (cooking), DIY, woodwork, household electrics,  bricklaying (for housebuilding) they don't have to do them all but some of these will be way more beneficial to some students than physics/chemistry.

That word is very important when you're talking about any kind of limitation against teaching the hard sciences. 

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Bridge hit yet again.

Does this bridge not have those warning wires stretching across the approaches?

I noticed last week that the railway bridge on Saffron Lane, as you head down from Aylestone Road, has them.

These are the same height as the bridge and would give you plenty of warning by snagging the top of your wagon/lorry/bus if you were too tall.

 

3 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I think often it's incorrect satnav data and people stupidly choose (surely a computer can't be wrong!) the onscreen info rather than the very clear and accurate signs that have been there for years.

There are no height warning wires or chains on the A5. However there are infra-red beams on the approaches that trigger a warning about the height limit and show a diversion arrow. How they get ignored is beyond me.

 

When I drove HGV's on my days off from ambulancing about, I had to know the height of the trailer both fully loaded and empty because the rear wheels of the cab can be self levelled to make sure the trailer is a level load. If in doubt, a measuring pole was available to physically check the trailer height.

 

By law, there has to be height placards in every HGV cab showing the max height of the trailer. Satnav or not, no professional driver should ignore or miss max bridge height signs.

 

Satnav kit for HGV's is available but it's taking time to catch up/on. Agency drivers, for example, will be expected to provide their own kit. It's not cheap, so guess what, they don't bother.

 

 

 

Edited 28 July by Parafox

[davieG]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

That word is very important when you're talking about any kind of limitation against teaching the hard sciences. 

Oh I'm not against any subject it's more important that students get to choose what's best for them. Struggling in a science class making you feel stupid and ignorant rather than spending time learning something more appropriate is surely the way to go. Those choices, as far as is practical need to be options in as many schools as possible rather than creating 'none academic' ones again making the student feel inferior.

[leicsmac]

20 minutes ago, davieG said:

Oh I'm not against any subject it's more important that students get to choose what's best for them. Struggling in a science class making you feel stupid and ignorant rather than spending time learning something more appropriate is surely the way to go. Those choices, as far as is practical need to be options in as many schools as possible rather than creating 'none academic' ones again making the student feel inferior.

No disagreement there. 

 

I'm just a bit leery of discussions along these lines when quite a bit of the situation the UK and the wider world finds itself in right now is because of a combination of scientific illiteracy and that same illiteracy being applied to government policymaking because of the degree of that problem allows it to be in a democracy. 

Edited 28 July by leicsmac

[Rubbersoul]

This isn’t really adding anything to the conversation but I absolutely despised Science lessons at school. 
 

Maths I was fine at to get a good grade, English & History I loved but Science I just had absolutely no interest. At the time I couldn’t see the point in it at all haha. The teenage brain I guess

[Parafox]

4 minutes ago, Rubbersoul said:

This isn’t really adding anything to the conversation but I absolutely despised Science lessons at school. 
 

Maths I was fine at to get a good grade, English & History I loved but Science I just had absolutely no interest. At the time I couldn’t see the point in it at all haha. The teenage brain I guess

I got Biology, English Language and Geography at O-level.

 

During my working life, I could read maps, speak and write quite well and fix broken people.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Rubbersoul said:

This isn’t really adding anything to the conversation but I absolutely despised Science lessons at school. 
 

Maths I was fine at to get a good grade, English & History I loved but Science I just had absolutely no interest. At the time I couldn’t see the point in it at all haha. The teenage brain I guess

Not the first and sure won't be the last either. Everyone has different interests and specialties when it comes to learning. And there should be no argument that schools should try to cater to that as they can. 

 

(A lack of gifted science teachers is also a problem because scientists often aren't the best communicators, those good at science are doing something else, and those decent at science but better at communication are doing something else too - there's better opportunities out there for both.)

 

That all being said, Covid and other matters have showed rather starkly how damaging scientific illiteracy as described above (not harmful by itself) can be when combined with decisions that affect everyone (much more of a problem).

[Rubbersoul]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Not the first and sure won't be the last either. Everyone has different interests and specialties when it comes to learning. And there should be no argument that schools should try to cater to that as they can. 

 

(A lack of gifted science teachers is also a problem because scientists often aren't the best communicators, those good at science are doing something else, and those decent at science but better at communication are doing something else too - there's better opportunities out there for both.)

 

That all being said, Covid and other matters have showed rather starkly how damaging scientific illiteracy as described above (not harmful by itself) can be when combined with decisions that affect everyone (much more of a problem).

Last year of school my Science teacher (who taught us all three) just vanished and we had subs for the rest of the year so I never really stood a chance. 
 

I loved it in my early years but as I got older just had total apathy towards it and not really sure why. 

 

School subjects are a funny thing really because as children we’re made to sit through hours & hours of lessons of subjects we have absolutely zero passion for. I hated going to French lessons I just could not see the point! 

 

 

[Parafox]

Ever since I (and many on here of a similar age) can remember, school was all about a fixed curriculum, like it, succeed or not, this is what you will learn.

 

I was fortunate to go to Gateway Grammar school as it was back then. It was quite progressive in it's curriculum in that it encouraged kids with non academic traits to try other things, not extreme and not far off the mainstream but if I wanted to join a class that was building a scale version of the Parthenon, I could (and did). 

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Rubbersoul said:

Last year of school my Science teacher (who taught us all three) just vanished and we had subs for the rest of the year so I never really stood a chance. 
 

I loved it in my early years but as I got older just had total apathy towards it and not really sure why. 

 

School subjects are a funny thing really because as children we’re made to sit through hours & hours of lessons of subjects we have absolutely zero passion for. I hated going to French lessons I just could not see the point! 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Ever since I (and many on here of a similar age) can remember, school was all about a fixed curriculum, like it, succeed or not, this is what you will learn.

 

I was fortunate to go to Gateway Grammar school as it was back then. It was quite progressive in it's curriculum in that it encouraged kids with non academic traits to try other things, not extreme and not far off the mainstream but if I wanted to join a class that was building a scale version of the Parthenon, I could (and did). 

Schools and students both could certainly benefit from allowing a wider choice of curriculum. 

 

Actually doing that in practice is a problem of resources (both human and material), but then a lot of things are. 

[Parafox]

19 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Ever since I (and many on here of a similar age) can remember, school was all about a fixed curriculum, like it, succeed or not, this is what you will learn.

 

I was fortunate to go to Gateway Grammar school as it was back then. It was quite progressive in it's curriculum in that it encouraged kids with non academic traits to try other things, not extreme and not far off the mainstream but if I wanted to join a class that was building a scale version of the Parthenon, I could (and did). 

Can I also add that during my time at Gateway, they brought in the first computer to be used in schools. It took up almost the whole ground floor of the science block, it was huge and took ages to program an equation and get an an answer. Also the school won the BBC Young Scientists of the Year Award for a fingerprinting process which was unprecedented at the time.

 

Young Scientists, Fingerprints, and PVC - Communicate Science

 

Edited 28 July by Parafox

[RowlattsFox]

In theory, I'm all for more options at GCSE level that could inspire better career choices, raise aspirations at an earlier age and encourage engagement in education but who is going to teach it? I suppose the Maths teacher can give it a go.

A generic construction would be handy but we all know that will just be used and abused to give the naughty kids something to do. 

 

Biggest barrier is reliance on English and Maths grades. Decent level college courses and career apprenticeships require English and Maths so kids spend a couple of years after school doing meaningless level 1 courses alongside functional skills, but they are starting from such a low level there is no real chance of them getting a decent career. Since I've started working with 16-24 I've been astonished by the amount of young people that are at entry level functional skills, and then you have the 'home schooling' growth which is impacting a lot of young people.

Why not offer functional skills English and Maths as an alternative to GCSE from 14? Give lesser academic young people a chance to get a qualification rather than waiting until they've failed. 

 

[Sampson]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c0rd1rvlx1vt

 

Nice to see Burnham sticking to his word that he wants more cross-party discussions and not just bickering. I'm still not sure it'll last but its refreshing to see a government even try to basics of it rather than that schoolboy bad faith arguing and "banter" between parties at pmqs which I think a lot of us find a bit baffling to see adults behaving that way.

Edited 29 July by Sampson

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, RowlattsFox said:

In theory, I'm all for more options at GCSE level that could inspire better career choices, raise aspirations at an earlier age and encourage engagement in education but who is going to teach it? I suppose the Maths teacher can give it a go.

A generic construction would be handy but we all know that will just be used and abused to give the naughty kids something to do. 

 

Biggest barrier is reliance on English and Maths grades. Decent level college courses and career apprenticeships require English and Maths so kids spend a couple of years after school doing meaningless level 1 courses alongside functional skills, but they are starting from such a low level there is no real chance of them getting a decent career. Since I've started working with 16-24 I've been astonished by the amount of young people that are at entry level functional skills, and then you have the 'home schooling' growth which is impacting a lot of young people.

Why not offer functional skills English and Maths as an alternative to GCSE from 14? Give lesser academic young people a chance to get a qualification rather than waiting until they've failed. 

 

I'd love to teach the next generation of engineers tbh. 

[kenny]

39 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I'd love to teach the next generation of engineers tbh. 

You will need to take a year off work to get yourself qualified then.

 

The government has banned 'unqualified' specialists helping to teach vocational subjects in schools.

[Sampson]

I do think there is still a bit of snobbery towards the service sector too though. The reality is, we are a service oriented economy and most of Britain's jobs are in things like retail, hospitality, customer service/call centres or other service jobs like hairdressers or taxi drivers. 

 

I still often hear politicians/political punters trying to appeal to "working classes" by going on about the traditional trades or "what does that mean to your brickie or plumber?" and vocational training or the old BTEC programmes and apprenticeships are often about these goods-creation or physical labour and traditional trades like builders, plumbers, electricians, plasterers, carpenters, engineers etc. and that is a good thing but the reality is nowadays the traditional trades actually tend to have decent unions, are well paid and if you go it alone you can make good money from it and many service jobs do not and I think culturally are still not given the same level of cudos.

 

The reality is especially among people in their twenties and thirties the majority of "working class" labour is actually in shops, restaurants, cafes, bars, hotels, call centres and the like, but these are often exactly the kind of jobs and training that are ignored in education despite the fact they are bedrocks of our communities and we all probably use these services and require the help of these staff more than most other sectors - and I still think that there are cultural stereotypes that being a great and helpful barman, barista. hotel receptionist or call centre agent is not a "real" career and is still almost looked down on culturally.

Edited 29 July by Sampson

[Lionator]

If he is genuinely determined to sort social care in this country, it’ll be one of the most transformative and cost effective policies in this country for decades. 

Edited 29 July by Lionator

[MaidstoneFox]

3 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

In theory, I'm all for more options at GCSE level that could inspire better career choices, raise aspirations at an earlier age and encourage engagement in education but who is going to teach it? I suppose the Maths teacher can give it a go.

A generic construction would be handy but we all know that will just be used and abused to give the naughty kids something to do. 

 

Biggest barrier is reliance on English and Maths grades. Decent level college courses and career apprenticeships require English and Maths so kids spend a couple of years after school doing meaningless level 1 courses alongside functional skills, but they are starting from such a low level there is no real chance of them getting a decent career. Since I've started working with 16-24 I've been astonished by the amount of young people that are at entry level functional skills, and then you have the 'home schooling' growth which is impacting a lot of young people.

Why not offer functional skills English and Maths as an alternative to GCSE from 14? Give lesser academic young people a chance to get a qualification rather than waiting until they've failed. 

 

It's a good idea. Having taught in colleges and more latterly schools for about 30 years, I can remember that we used to have to offer and embed 'key skills', for 16-18 college students, which covered numeracy and literacy, but in a less traditionally academic way.

 

On a more general point and taking in what others have mentioned, the worst thing that happened to education in recent years, were the changes made by Michael Gove as it created too great an emphasis on academic qualifications and results. For example, at my son's school (and as they do at many schools), they start GCSEs in Y9, to give themselves the chance of getting higher grades by the end of Y11.  This narrows the overall curriculum a year early though, so subjects like D&T, food tech etc, usually get dropped after just two years and you end up with less rounded individuals.

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

I do think there is still a bit of snobbery towards the service sector too though. The reality is, we are a service oriented economy and most of Britain's jobs are in things like retail, hospitality, customer service/call centres or other service jobs like hairdressers or taxi drivers. 

 

I still often hear politicians/political punters trying to appeal to "working classes" by going on about the traditional trades or "what does that mean to your brickie or plumber?" and vocational training or the old BTEC programmes and apprenticeships are often about these goods-creation or physical labour and traditional trades like builders, plumbers, electricians, plasterers, carpenters, engineers etc. and that is a good thing but the reality is nowadays the traditional trades actually tend to have decent unions, are well paid and if you go it alone you can make good money from it and many service jobs do not and I think culturally are still not given the same level of cudos.

 

The reality is especially among people in their twenties and thirties the majority of "working class" labour is actually in shops, restaurants, cafes, bars, hotels, call centres and the like, but these are often exactly the kind of jobs and training that are ignored in education despite the fact they are bedrocks of our communities and we all probably use these services and require the help of these staff more than most other sectors - and I still think that there are cultural stereotypes that being a great and helpful barman, barista. hotel receptionist or call centre agent is not a "real" career and is still almost looked down on culturally.

As someone that spent over 30 years in customer service I couldn't agree more. I was fortunate to work for a very good company that really did/does believe in excellent customer service. The job was often quite stressful but I could take pride in that I was making a difference to the customer and enhancing the reputation of the company 

[Wymsey]

Disturbing...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyqggvyp1do