West Brom (A) Pre Match

[TheGoldenGod]

14 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

He did about as much as Winks. One gets celebrated for passing sideways and offering little in attack and defence, the other gets hounded.

 

Soumare is at the same level as the rest of his teammates (Winks, Vestergaard, Faes, Ayew). If youre fine with those players starting then you should be fine with Soumare.

That's a....take for sure! Winks is utterly mustard at this level, dictates the tempo of a game on his own and miles better than Bouba!

[honeybradger]

1 hour ago, TheGoldenGod said:

That's a....take for sure! Winks is utterly mustard at this level, dictates the tempo of a game on his own and miles better than Bouba!

Bunch of word jargon without actually saying much. Soumare 'dictated the game' against Coventry just as much as Winks. Saying anyone dictated the game when we werent much better than Coventry on the day is complete rubbish by the way.

 

Soumare and Winks both completed a high number of passes, Winks 79, Soumare 58, both had a similar number of progressive pases Winks 8 soumare 7, similar number of long balls Winks 4, Soumare 5, similar number of key passes Winks 2, Soumare 3.

 

I dont rate either by the way, but both are fine at this level. Winks just benefited from playing at a lower level for us in his first season and gained a better first impression with us by looking good against poor opposition. Soumare isnt rated because of how poor he was in the Premier League for us but Winks was also poor at that level and at this level there isnt much between them.

[TheGoldenGod]

36 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Bunch of word jargon without actually saying much. Soumare 'dictated the game' against Coventry just as much as Winks. Saying anyone dictated the game when we werent much better than Coventry on the day is complete rubbish by the way.

 

Soumare and Winks both completed a high number of passes, Winks 79, Soumare 58, both had a similar number of progressive pases Winks 8 soumare 7, similar number of long balls Winks 4, Soumare 5, similar number of key passes Winks 2, Soumare 3.

 

I dont rate either by the way, but both are fine at this level. Winks just benefited from playing at a lower level for us in his first season and gained a better first impression with us by looking good against poor opposition. Soumare isnt rated because of how poor he was in the Premier League for us but Winks was also poor at that level and at this level there isnt much between them.

Ok pal...mine was word jargon

[honeybradger]

9 minutes ago, TheGoldenGod said:

Ok pal...mine was word jargon

Yh, just a bunch of meaningless phrases that the zombies on here love to lap up.

 

I provide stats and substance, you proved empty phrases like 'he's mustard at this level' 'he dictated the game' 'miles better than bouba'. All worthless phrases with no real meaning, weight or substantiation to them.

 

You like most people dont know how to look past your own preconceived opinions of players. Probably not even your own opinion but based purely off what you read here. You see people coming on here to talk about how bad Soumare and Thomas were when they had a perfectly fine game and how class Winks was when he did ok. Just zombies regurgitating the same opinions.

Edited 25 September 2025 by honeybradger

[TheGoldenGod]

4 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Yh, just a bunch of meaningless phrases that the zombies on here love to lap up.

 

I provide stats and substance, you proved empty phrases like 'he's mustard at this level' 'he dictated the game' 'miles better than bouba'. All worthless phrases with no real meaning, weight or substantiation to them.

If you think football is just in the stats then you haven't got a clue and I feel sorry for you. I watched 94 minutes with my own eyeballs. We had more possession than Coventry and I said Winks dictated the play...which he did. Sped it up when needed and slowed it down when required. By your own stat vomiting you're agreeing me with inadvertently as he was more involved than Soumare.

 

Just because you call people who don't agree with you 'zombies' doesn't make you right unfortunately  

Edited 25 September 2025 by TheGoldenGod

[honeybradger]

3 minutes ago, TheGoldenGod said:

If you think football is just in the stats then you haven't got a clue and I feel sorry for you. I watched 94 minutes with my own eyeballs. We had more possession than Coventry and I said Winks dictated the play...which he did. Sped it up when needed and slowed it down when required. By your own stat vomiting you're agreeing me with inadvertently as he was more involved than Soumare.

 

Just because you call people who don't agree with you 'zombies' doesn't make you right unfortunately  

At least this time you actually provided some reason instead of some crude statements. 

 

I disagree that he sped it up when needed, he's usually too slow on the ball and kills our attacks, same as Soumare. I used stats because we clearly have different opinions from watching the game, stats are just objective.

[Happy Fox]

Carranza has to start imo, persisting with Ayew from the start of games is plain daft (impact sub more beneficial for us).

Edited 25 September 2025 by Happy Fox

[Grebfromgrebland]

42 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Caranzza has to start persisting with Ayew is plain daft.

Why does Caranzza have to start persisting with Ayew?

[Happy Fox]

 

10 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Why does Caranzza have to start persisting with Ayew?

 

Edited post.

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, Happy Fox said:

Carranza has to start imo, persisting with Ayew from the start of games is plain daft (impact sub more beneficial for us).

Or play Ayew on the left and drop Mavididi who offers nothing.

[SafewayFox]

4 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Bunch of word jargon without actually saying much. Soumare 'dictated the game' against Coventry just as much as Winks. Saying anyone dictated the game when we werent much better than Coventry on the day is complete rubbish by the way.

 

Soumare and Winks both completed a high number of passes, Winks 79, Soumare 58, both had a similar number of progressive pases Winks 8 soumare 7, similar number of long balls Winks 4, Soumare 5, similar number of key passes Winks 2, Soumare 3.

 

I dont rate either by the way, but both are fine at this level. Winks just benefited from playing at a lower level for us in his first season and gained a better first impression with us by looking good against poor opposition. Soumare isnt rated because of how poor he was in the Premier League for us but Winks was also poor at that level and at this level there isnt much between them.

Soumare is the epitome of stat padding though.

 

Of those 58 passes that he made, how many were behind the player receiving the pass?

 

Winks always offers himself, Bouba has a knack of hiding behind a player.

 

Cov’s midfield was horrendous and often Grimes being overloaded, hence why Bouba had the opportunity to drive with it but he did it all at such a lethargic pace.

 

Bouba getting as many minutes as he has, sums up our rapid fall from grace.

[volpeazzurro]

6 hours ago, TheGoldenGod said:

That's a....take for sure! Winks is utterly mustard at this level, dictates the tempo of a game on his own and miles better than Bouba!

He really isn’t mustard at all, he absolutely flatters to deceive, watch him closely and explain what he actually contributes!

 

The good points are that his control and gathering of the ball is excellent. On first glance his stats are excellent too because he rarely gives the ball away but … if you scrutinise that further by actually watching him it’s because he merely passes the ball two or three yards in a very easy low risk pass time after time. How many times in the last game for example did he bellow out to one of his own players to pass him the ball like a midfield controller only to pass it straight back to him a split second later! One more brownie point for his personal stats, bugger all of a contribution for the team! He moves very little to create space to even attempt a decent pass. On the surface he looks neat and doesn’t give the ball away but actually he is largely a waste of space.

 

There’s a reason he moved abroad from Spurs and it’s the same reason we got him, because no one else wanted him in the Premiership because he was transparent and got found out. He plays for himself and contributes very little. Neither in the last couple of games I’ve seen him play is he prepared to graft and put his foot in. Our midfield is clearly our Achilles heel, it neither creates or protects the defence.

[Jobyfox]

5 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Bunch of word jargon without actually saying much. Soumare 'dictated the game' against Coventry just as much as Winks. Saying anyone dictated the game when we werent much better than Coventry on the day is complete rubbish by the way.

 

Soumare and Winks both completed a high number of passes, Winks 79, Soumare 58, both had a similar number of progressive pases Winks 8 soumare 7, similar number of long balls Winks 4, Soumare 5, similar number of key passes Winks 2, Soumare 3.

 

I dont rate either by the way, but both are fine at this level. Winks just benefited from playing at a lower level for us in his first season and gained a better first impression with us by looking good against poor opposition. Soumare isnt rated because of how poor he was in the Premier League for us but Winks was also poor at that level and at this level there isnt much between them.

There is an absolute country mile between them. If we are to compete we’ll need Winks to stay fit, but Soumare is very replaceable.

 

But then I might just be a zombie regurgitating an opinion! 

[honeybradger]

33 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

Soumare is the epitome of stat padding though.

 

Of those 58 passes that he made, how many were behind the player receiving the pass?

 

Winks always offers himself, Bouba has a knack of hiding behind a player.

Yet Winks and Soumare had a similar number of progressive passes and key passes. Not sure how you can say one stat pads and not the other, both are very conservative with the ball and usually play the safest pass available instead of progressing up the pitch.

33 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

 

Cov’s midfield was horrendous and often Grimes being overloaded, hence why Bouba had the opportunity to drive with it but he did it all at such a lethargic pace.

 

Bouba getting as many minutes as he has, sums up our rapid fall from grace.

I fully agree that Bouba becoming a regular in our side at this level is a sign of our demise and that he is made to look decent by the opposition being poor. The same goes to Winks though, both are decent midfielders at this level but that is a result of the opposition being poor more than anything else.

 

I just find issue with reactions on here like Winks had an 8/10 performance and Soumare had a 4/10 performance. It's more that Winks was a 6.5/10 and Soumare was a 6.3/10, both serviceable and didn't do much wrong but didn't do much good either.

[SafewayFox]

2 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Yet Winks and Soumare had a similar number of progressive passes and key passes. Not sure how you can say one stat pads and not the other, both are very conservative with the ball and usually play the safest pass available instead of progressing up the pitch.

I fully agree that Bouba becoming a regular in our side at this level is a sign of our demise and that he is made to look decent by the opposition being poor. The same goes to Winks though, both are decent midfielders at this level but that is a result of the opposition being poor more than anything else.

 

I just find issue with reactions on here like Winks had an 8/10 performance and Soumare had a 4/10 performance. It's more that Winks was a 6.5/10 and Soumare was a 6.3/10, both serviceable and didn't do much wrong but didn't do much good either.

Out of curiosity did you listen to Monday’s WYS when Pipes was raving about Winks?

 

He said the difference with him being in the team is night and day?

 

That players actually anticipate him moving the ball on and making a positive run that they don’t make when Bouba/Skipp etc are on the ball.

 

Surely, Pipes knows a fair bit about football??

[Pliskin]

7 hours ago, honeybradger said:

He did about as much as Winks. One gets celebrated for passing sideways and offering little in attack and defence, the other gets hounded.

 

Soumare is at the same level as the rest of his teammates (Winks, Vestergaard, Faes, Ayew). If youre fine with those players starting then you should be fine with Soumare.

Hold on hold on. 
 

 

Are you suggesting that Soumare did as much as Winks in the previous game?

 

If you are, with respect, you are very, very wrong. 

Edited 25 September 2025 by Pliskin

[Wolfox]

On 22/09/2025 at 07:50, murphy said:

Stalemate is a situation where you have no options available to you.  We do.  Play him.  It's not a risk, he is proven at this level. 

 

It will be a scandal if we lose a talent like Nelson because we chose Faes or Vestergaard who are both average and leaving soon, ahead of him. 

I see what you’re saying, but no manager is going to deselect stronger players who may be the difference in us going up in order to dissuade Nelson from leaving…. A bit harsh, but he was rubbish in the cup game…. Faes and Vestergaard are lower risk options (I suspect you’ll disagree with me though)

 

If Nelson was that good, he’d be starting…

[murphy]

11 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

I see what you’re saying, but no manager is going to deselect stronger players who may be the difference in us going up in order to dissuade Nelson from leaving…. A bit harsh, but he was rubbish in the cup game…. Faes and Vestergaard are lower risk options (I suspect you’ll disagree with me though)

 

If Nelson was that good, he’d be starting…

You suspect right 

 

Also, I disagree with the strategy.  Even if it made us slightly weaker I would play the long game to develop a player who has the potential to soon be several furlongs ahead of Lurch and Garfunkel and minimise the risk of losing a valuable asset for nothing.

 

I don't think it would weaken us though.  If Oxford fans are to be believed he was sensational for them and one ropey half, coming back from injury, doesn't negate that.

 

If Nelson were that good he'd be starting?  Not necessarily.  Cooper dropped Ricardo and Fatawu.  

 

 

Edited 25 September 2025 by murphy

[Mickyblueeyes]

WBA centre back pairing on paper looks pretty decent for this level. Mepham and Phillips. Proper top 6 battle this one.

[Ric Flair]

11 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

I see what you’re saying, but no manager is going to deselect stronger players who may be the difference in us going up in order to dissuade Nelson from leaving…. A bit harsh, but he was rubbish in the cup game…. Faes and Vestergaard are lower risk options (I suspect you’ll disagree with me though)

 

If Nelson was that good, he’d be starting…

More often than not they won't but many examples of managers doing so if they can do for the longer term benefit. Puel for example did it with Chilwell over Fuchs and persisted for months and months whilst he clearly was raw and not as polished as Fuchs but within a year was seen as a huge talent ready for England call up.

[Wolfox]

57 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Hold on hold on. 
 

 

Are you suggesting that Soumare did as much as Winks in the previous game?

 

If you are, with respect, you are very, very wrong. 

I think, in fairness, he’s suggesting that the stats are saying that…. And they’re objective…. He seems to raise an interesting point…. I had Winks as my MOTM

[Wolfox]

49 minutes ago, murphy said:

You suspect right 

 

I also disagree with the strategy.  Even if it made us slightly weaker I would play the long game to develop a player who has the potential to soon be several furlongs ahead of Lurch and Garfunkel and minimise the risk of losing a valuable asset for nothing.

 

I don't think it would weaken us though.  If Oxford fans are to be believed he was sensational for them and one ropey half, coming back from injury, doesn't negate that.

 

If Nelson were that good he'd be starting?  Not necessarily.  Cooper dropped Ricardo and Fatawu.  

I know your loathing for Lurch…. I like him as much as you dislike him!

 

Maybe Nelson is great and I’m aware he got good reviews…. I just haven’t seen it (although theirs been limited opportunities for that!)

 

Cooper dropped Fats and Ricardo because he was a tw@t

 

44 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

More often than not they won't but many examples of managers doing so if they can do for the longer term benefit. Puel for example did it with Chilwell over Fuchs and persisted for months and months whilst he clearly was raw and not as polished as Fuchs but within a year was seen as a huge talent ready for England call up.

Fair point…. Puel was quite brave in that regard 

Edited 25 September 2025 by Wolfox

[TheGoldenGod]

39 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

I think, in fairness, he’s suggesting that the stats are saying that…. And they’re objective…. He seems to raise an interesting point…. I had Winks as my MOTM

So did anyone with a brain. Ironic really cause Zombies like brains

[whoareyaaa]

Soumare and Winks is better than Winks and Skipp

 

Winks and James with Ayew dropping into the 10 may work and another striker on the pitch.

Edited 25 September 2025 by whoareyaaa

[murphy]

2 hours ago, Wolfox said:

I know your loathing for Lurch…. I like him as much as you dislike him!

 

Maybe Nelson is great and I’m aware he got good reviews…. I just haven’t seen it (although theirs been limited opportunities for that!)

 

Cooper dropped Fats and Ricardo because he was a tw@t

 

Fair point…. Puel was quite brave in that regard 

That's harsh.  I don't loath him, I merely detest him.