Russell Martin - Confirmed as First Team Manager

[FrankieADZ]

this is me by no means defending RM, but the amount of times ive seen people say you cant get out of L1 playing tippy tappy football is kinda laughable now, because if people actually just take the 2 mins to look, at least 3 teams(bolton is a sort of) in the last 2 seasons have gone up playing that way

for me his style does work BUT....it cant be the be all and end all; it needs to be modified

[Chelmofox]

3 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

this is me by no means defending RM, but the amount of times ive seen people say you cant get out of L1 playing tippy tappy football is kinda laughable now, because if people actually just take the 2 mins to look, at least 3 teams(bolton is a sort of) in the last 2 seasons have gone up playing that way

for me his style does work BUT....it cant be the be all and end all; it needs to be modified

Having more possession and being possession at all costs are 2 very different things. 

[chesterfox]

And this is Russel Martin! Yes we played some really good stuff, yes it looked good on the eye with some really promising performances but crudely you just tgotta win sometimes. I think we have got out of the habit and so the judgement comes on results. Nobody will save you if youve played brilliantly for ten games and lost all ten. It is suicidal playing out of the back the way he does - we are not quick enough, good enough and ultimately it's gonna kill the young players confidence.

[chuddy8]

15 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

He said Jakub was "amazing." He wasn't amazing, he was a car crash. Flapping around at corners and crosses, more often then not deflecting the ball into the danger area, rarely collecting the ball cleanly, hesitant as a sweeper keeper, with inconsistent distribution. You cannot lie like that and expect to get away with it, The alternative is that RM really believes that is all you can expect from a keeper. Iif correct that beggars belief, but it would explain his decision to bring in McCarthy and play him above Jakub. I don't think he  understands the basic principles of defence, According to Soton fans, one of his worst decisions was to persist with Buzunu in goal, who was an absolute liability. One analyst concluded RM rates shot-stopping and cross collection less highly than playing out from the back.

 

He also said we deserved to win the game - the stats show it. I am sick of the possession football ideologues saying this. There's one stat that matters - the final score. I have now seen countless games in the past five years which City have supposedly "controlled" but lost. 

 

I don't say there weren't encouraging signs last night. But time after time we are asked to be encouraged by creative approach play - even when it doesn't lead to victory. And 

despite all the exhilarating triangular patterns we scored from a corner. 

 

 

 

How many managers do you know who would say "the goalkeeper was an absolute horror show today and I'm dropping him with haste"?

 

To be fair, I saw enough tonight to give Martin the first half of the next game 🙏🏽

[coolhandfox]

21 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

He said Jakub was "amazing." He wasn't amazing, he was a car crash. Flapping around at corners and crosses, more often then not deflecting the ball into the danger area, rarely collecting the ball cleanly, hesitant as a sweeper keeper, with inconsistent distribution. You cannot lie like that and expect to get away with it, The alternative is that RM really believes that is all you can expect from a keeper. Iif correct that beggars belief, but it would explain his decision to bring in McCarthy and play him above Jakub. I don't think he  understands the basic principles of defence, According to Soton fans, one of his worst decisions was to persist with Buzunu in goal, who was an absolute liability. One analyst concluded RM rates shot-stopping and cross collection less highly than playing out from the back.

 

He also said we deserved to win the game - the stats show it. I am sick of the possession football ideologues saying this. There's one stat that matters - the final score. I have now seen countless games in the past five years which City have supposedly "controlled" but lost. 

 

I don't say there weren't encouraging signs last night. But time after time we are asked to be encouraged by creative approach play - even when it doesn't lead to victory. And 

despite all the exhilarating triangular patterns we scored from a corner. 

 

 

 

It's all about context.

 

It's not always about performance. If a player is struggling but is still willing to do what they've been asked to do and shows the courage to keep doing it, then as a coach you can still be pleased with their contribution.

 

I'm pretty sure that if you listen again, he said we didn't deserve to lose.

 

 

Edited 26 August by coolhandfox

[Grebfromgrebland]

Unfortunately playing a high line with inexperienced players who haven't gelled and don't have the ability is suicidal.

 

But when it works out it looks really good. 

[smudgerfox]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

It's all about context.

 

It's not always about performance. If a player is struggling but is still willing to do what they've been asked to do and shows the courage to keep doing it, then as a coach you can still be pleased with their contribution.

 

I'm pretty sure that if you listen again, he said we didn't deserve to lose.

 

 

You're saying Jakub is instructed to flap at crosses and feebly pad them into the danger area? That's neglect of basic goalkeeping skills and it's a million miles away from "amazing" and is no justification for being "pleased with their contribution." 

 

Not deserving to lose isn't a million miles from deserving to win, is it? Especially when the ie couldn't end in a draw..

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Unfortunately playing a high line with inexperienced players who haven't gelled and don't have the ability is suicidal.

 

But when it works out it looks really good. 

Only really happen a lot once we were chase the game. 

[coolhandfox]

4 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

You're saying Jakub is instructed to flap at crosses and feebly pad them into the danger area? That's neglect of basic goalkeeping skills and it's a million miles away from "amazing" and is no justification for being "pleased with their contribution." 

I think he was talk about his willingness to play as a sweeper keeper and being good with his distribution. Do you not think Jakub confidence is shot to pieces after last season and the manager is trying to rebuild that?

 

4 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

Not deserving to lose isn't a million miles from deserving to win, is it? Especially when the ie couldn't end in a draw..

Can't admitted your wrong 

Edited 26 August by coolhandfox

[jv1]

He is hardly going to come out and hammer the young keeper after he just got lobbed from 40 yards - we should be happy that our manager is trying to look after the young lads and not blame them for mistakes 

[jv1]

11 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Only really happen a lot once we were chase the game. 

Agreed - i didn’t think we had a high line at all - no higher than it should be - you can’t press if your back line is on the edge of your own box so they got up to just about where they should be most of the time - putting that into context with 4 lads that have never played together in a back line before with all 4 being full backs and actually we defended for the most part pretty well - coulibaly got loads of little tackles and nicks on balls in and yes he gave the pass for the second away but he was absolutely knackered and was down 2 mins earlier so I’ll cut him some slack - aluko is raw and gets in the wrong position sometimes but he had a superb game - McFarlane looked solid enough even though he gave the ball away a lot I still though he looked athletic and won a lot of individuals and dare I say it that’s the best game I think Luke Thomas has had for years and shows he is probably better in that position then at full back - he is still crap and don’t want him anywhere near the 11 but that performance might make Russel think he is ok as 4th choice centre half which I can live with just 

 

plenty to be positive about 

[Samilktray]

43 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

this is me by no means defending RM, but the amount of times ive seen people say you cant get out of L1 playing tippy tappy football is kinda laughable now, because if people actually just take the 2 mins to look, at least 3 teams(bolton is a sort of) in the last 2 seasons have gone up playing that way

for me his style does work BUT....it cant be the be all and end all; it needs to be modified

@Finnegan

[MGLCFC]

Not a fan of RM, but whatever he says some people put a negative slant on it. For instance, Saturday, when he called out the players for their poor start to the game he was criticised for throwing players under the bus 'The usual Martin blaming others, I heard'. Tonight defending some players when they weren't on top of their game, he gets criticised for that too. I think there is a narrative here, that some will just find fault no matter what he does or says. 

The reality is we are stuck with him and he won't change his style - I just hope we see more of the first 60 minutes from tonight, over a full  game on most occasions from now on. 

[trooky]

1 hour ago, FrankieADZ said:

this is me by no means defending RM, but the amount of times ive seen people say you cant get out of L1 playing tippy tappy football is kinda laughable now, because if people actually just take the 2 mins to look, at least 3 teams(bolton is a sort of) in the last 2 seasons have gone up playing that way

for me his style does work BUT....it cant be the be all and end all; it needs to be modified

The worst part of his football is the straight suicide pass from the keeper or defenders in the 6yd box to the DM at the edge of the 18yd box. They loose it 90% of time. The risk is far greater than the reward. 

 

I'm not sure I share you confidence In RM, so far in 4 games we dominated possession, scored 4 and conceded 6.

 

Its going to take time, I'm not sure the fanbase has the patience for him though because of past failures. 

 

He could get some quick wins if he never plays Skipp, Okoli, BDR, Souttar and McCarthy ever again but we know that's not going to happen. 

 

I will add Thomas to that list once we have the CBs sorted, because I would rather see him play RMs tactic than Souttar, and after last night Aluko should be 1st choice CB. 

Edited 26 August by trooky

[OntarioFox]

Once we get it out of our defensive third I've actually liked what I've seen, largely because of the bright and mostly young new personnel we've got doing most of the legwork. Despite the poor results, I've liked what I've seen from all of Alves, Braybrooke, Burns, Bristric, and last night Howell was quality too. Add in McFarlane and Joseph to that. Not seen enough of Chaplin yet but he seemed alright last night.

 

It's the rest of the backline though, of course. We will concede all season while we continue playing Russell Roulette, and due to our miserly transfer policy we don't have the firepower required to counteract that. We'll continue to drop points in games we could and should have won while we have one striker and Bobby f***ing Reid as our forward options.

 

Overall I think I like what I've seen more than anything since we were playing well under Enzo? But A) that's like shooting fish in a barrel given just how bad we've been for the past two years and B) it may purely be because of the new faces providing a tiny bit of intensity. We still have a stinking, festering Thomas/Okoli/Skipp/BDCR shaped wound on our arse and someone's now rubbed McCarthy on it to make it sting even more.

 

Edited 26 August by OntarioFox

[Iwebema]

16 minutes ago, MGLCFC said:

Not a fan of RM, but whatever he says some people put a negative slant on it. For instance, Saturday, when he called out the players for their poor start to the game he was criticised for throwing players under the bus 'The usual Martin blaming others, I heard'. Tonight defending some players when they weren't on top of their game, he gets criticised for that too. I think there is a narrative here, that some will just find fault no matter what he does or says. 

The reality is we are stuck with him and he won't change his style - I just hope we see more of the first 60 minutes from tonight, over a full  game on most occasions from now on. 

This was always going to be the reality of appointing him, which is why regardless of the football, it was such a silly appointment, he is a polarising figure in the football media, most fans cant relate to him and its a hard sell.

 

I know this is an internet forum so people always feel the need to be extreme in their views, but we have to try and get behind him,  like you say we are stuck with him and willing him to fail is counter intuitive, maybe he will turn out to be a bit like Puel, not well loved but a decent stepping stone to better things, or maybe he will turn out like a majority expect and be sacked before Christmas, but we need to take things as they come and not constantly look for the negative spin on everything he does.

[brookfox]

Martin in 20yrs telling people in the pub how he could’ve won the Champions League if other people had just seen the potential in possession % as a key stat in football.
 

[OntarioFox]

1 minute ago, Iwebema said:

This was always going to be the reality of appointing him, which is why regardless of the football, it was such a silly appointment, he is a polarising figure in the football media, most fans cant relate to him and its a hard sell.

 

I know this is an internet forum so people always feel the need to be extreme in their views, but we have to try and get behind him,  like you say we are stuck with him and willing him to fail is counter intuitive, maybe he will turn out to be a bit like Puel, not well loved but a decent stepping stone to better things, or maybe he will turn out like a majority expect and be sacked before Christmas, but we need to take things as they come and not constantly look for the negative spin on everything he does.

This is it for me too. I was, and remain, of the view that he should never have been anywhere near this football club and he's ultimately the wrong man for the fundamental rebuild we need.

 

But it was a board decision, he's here and this season is existential for us. I don't think we have a choice besides to see how it plays out, and accept that our view of him is always going to have a massive asterisk against it whatever happens, given the reputation he came with and the pathetic depths we've niw sunk to. He'll always be the manager that lost to Burton at home to take us to our lowest ever position in the pyramid.

 

I'm not angry at Martin, I'm angry at Top, Rudkin and the rest of the dickheads on the board who have pushed for this appointment for years and finally got their way, against the wishes of the fanbase and enough red flags to fill the Soviet politburo. I've been torn on whether I want him to succeed or not because if he does, it justifies his appointment in the heads of those smooth-brained idiots at the top. But there's more riding on this than the ego of people who - hopefully - won't be here much longer. If Russell fails and we languish in the third tier, we almost certainly face administration, if not winding up orders down the line. I don't want that for my club, and with that in mind I'm willing to - at the very least - back the lads on the pitch, most of whom had nothing to do with our current state.

 

Plus Lucy Pinder is fit

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, smudgerfox said:

He said Jakub was "amazing." He wasn't amazing, he was a car crash. Flapping around at corners and crosses, more often then not deflecting the ball into the danger area, rarely collecting the ball cleanly, hesitant as a sweeper keeper, with inconsistent distribution. You cannot lie like that and expect to get away with it, The alternative is that RM really believes that is all you can expect from a keeper. Iif correct that beggars belief, but it would explain his decision to bring in McCarthy and play him above Jakub. I don't think he  understands the basic principles of defence, According to Soton fans, one of his worst decisions was to persist with Buzunu in goal, who was an absolute liability. One analyst concluded RM rates shot-stopping and cross collection less highly than playing out from the back.

 

He also said we deserved to win the game - the stats show it. I am sick of the possession football ideologues saying this. There's one stat that matters - the final score. I have now seen countless games in the past five years which City have supposedly "controlled" but lost. 

 

I don't say there weren't encouraging signs last night. But time after time we are asked to be encouraged by creative approach play - even when it doesn't lead to victory. And 

despite all the exhilarating triangular patterns we scored from a corner. 

He said Jakub was 'brave with his feet'. Its clear that the keeper being willing to play a certain way is important to him.

 

Also, think you are harsh on Jakub there. The mistakes are still in his game, but he made 3 or 4 very good saves and i agree with Russel that he was brave in how we was willing to play and was largely solid with his passing, especially against a PL side. He is flappy at moments which is the part that lets himself down, but we wasnt a car crash all game and is better than our other options.

[Mapperleyfox]

I'm all for giving managers a chance, especially after having so many in the last 4/5 years. But lose to MK and don't beat Plymouth and he's on very thin ice I'm afraid. A bit of pragmatism and variation in our play instead of this suicidal obsession with playing out from the back and we might stand a chance. Otherwise we are going to continue to make mistakes and leak goals.

[Chelmofox]

Playing the style at all costs is really going to grate.  At times, when it worked, we broke their lines well and Page in particular was able to show some real quality. Just missing some bite up front. I do think Ipswich let us play our game though, in a way L1 teams simply wont. I dont think this will be the blueprint for Saturday.

 

But at 1-1, with tired legs and Bobby / Cullen on, we persist with exactly the same patterns, and by then the PL side have us worked out and wait for the mistake.

 

If the manager had switched it up and protected that 1-1 a little more but lost 3-1, he would blame it on 'not following the plan'. Instead, he calls it out as being brave. Either way, it shows a level of arrogance for the situation at hand just to keep doing the same thing over and over again.

 

I never expected to beat Ipswich, but both Russell and Leicester are on a horrible losing streak right now.  To protect that 1-1 for the 90 would have massively helped.

[BKLFox]

What do the players think of playing a possession game, I’d wager that everyone of them loves it, it’s what they play for, to have the ball and build with it instead of chasing it.
Every player I’ve heard talk about playing in teams where the manager plays a possession based game from Pep down to Jim McNulty at Stockport County speak of the joy of playing and training in this way.

Would Howell, Watson or McFarlane be here if we didn’t play this way & i’m sure our own young players prefer it also.

Also because it gets talked about so much & seems to be most people’s thoughts of the root of all evil ‘playing out from the back’ how many goals have we actually conceded as a direct result of keeper to defender and back again, I can think of only Woyo last night so far this season & I bet out of all those goals last season you could count on a single hand also.
Everybody mentions the risk, even at Man C, Liverpool, Arsenal etc but the amount of goals conceded as a direct result is probably actually very minimal but because you look foolish when it happens and commentary go on about when it happens is the perception of it happening ALL the time actually clouded🤷‍♂️ 

The issue is the speed it’s done to get it up the field, crack that and the pros out way the 1 major con.

 

Disclaimer This is a generalisation of playing this way not a stick up for RM post

[FrankieADZ]

1 hour ago, trooky said:

The worst part of his football is the straight suicide pass from the keeper or defenders in the 6yd box to the DM at the edge of the 18yd box. They loose it 90% of time. The risk is far greater than the reward. 

 

I'm not sure I share you confidence In RM, so far in 4 games we dominated possession, scored 4 and conceded 6.

 

Its going to take time, I'm not sure the fanbase has the patience for him though because of past failures. 

 

He could get some quick wins if he never plays Skipp, Okoli, BDR, Souttar and McCarthy ever again but we know that's not going to happen. 

 

I will add Thomas to that list once we have the CBs sorted, because I would rather see him play RMs tactic than Souttar, and after last night Aluko should be 1st choice CB. 

3 in one game to an oppo whos team was over 100mil(nunez cost more than our starting 11) while ours was mainly kids(our starting 11 cost what....4mil)

im by no means saying it will be a success but some fans have a short memory as we played this way under rodgers....enzo...

I'll give RM a chance like i do every manager and last night we played pretty well imo

 

tbf I think whatever manager we'd get some of our fans would moan, win last night....moan etc

its kinda getting f-ing boring now, 

Edited 26 August by FrankieADZ

[filbertway]

I did enjoy the co commentator last night, seemed like a rare person in the game that sees Martins football for what it is. 

 

Simply press man for man and wait for the errors as you know his teams wont try and bypass you with a direct ball, even if everyone is marked.

[Phil_Dunphy]

4 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I did enjoy the co commentator last night, seemed like a rare person in the game that sees Martins football for what it is. 

 

Simply press man for man and wait for the errors as you know his teams wont try and bypass you with a direct ball, even if everyone is marked.

Tony Gale