James. Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 I was coming at it more from the angle of people not having any sympathy if the club actually went under, not just into admin. Looking beyond Portsmouth the sad thing is that this will almost certainly happen again, and next time it might be a club that people do care about.
Guest Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 I was coming at it more from the angle of people not having any sympathy if the club actually went under, not just into admin.Looking beyond Portsmouth the sad thing is that this will almost certainly happen again, and next time it might be a club that people do care about. My thinking is a bit muddled, due to this sodding cold, but I just want to clarify that whilst I don't have any sympathy, I am not laughing at Pompey. I don't think they'll be the last club to get into financial difficulties. I find it sad that football has gone this way, that money and greed appear to have taken over. Can't remember if it's this thread or the other one where someone can't see the connection between agents, players and clubs potentially folding. To me, it's a vicious circle. To get the big money, you need to be successful, to be successful, you need successful players, to get successful players, you need to pay them stupid money, and on top of that, factor in the cut that the agent gets. This means you need to be getting into the big money positions, and so it continues. The sooner clubs come together and decide to stop letting players, and/or their agents, command such money, the better, but everyone knows it will never happen. As for the title of the thread, I am not changing it. The OP can deal with any flak.
Jon the Hat Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 I wonder what the rules are about admission to the league in the event of the club ceasing to exist and a new one appearing in it's place over the summer? I am thinking MK Dons did not come into existence in the Ryman league. Surely if that can be allowed to happen, a new "FC Portsmouth" should be allowed into the league?
Bellend Sebastian Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 People only had a go at us over being in administration because we were doing quite well on the pitch at the time. It's one of those enduring mysteries - why it's apparently ok to go into administration when you're doing badly, but there's something dreadfully unfair about being in administration when you're not crap. It's not really a mystery in our case though, as I think people just resented our preceding years of relative success. The thing that really pissed me off about it all though was the sudden apparent concern for our creditors' welfare shown by opposition fans, when of course they didn't give a shit about them and it was just a convenient stick to beat us with
Babylon Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 People only had a go at us over being in administration because we were doing quite well on the pitch at the time.It's one of those enduring mysteries - why it's apparently ok to go into administration when you're doing badly, but there's something dreadfully unfair about being in administration when you're not crap. It's not really a mystery in our case though, as I think people just resented our preceding years of relative success. The thing that really pissed me off about it all though was the sudden apparent concern for our creditors' welfare shown by opposition fans, when of course they didn't give a shit about them and it was just a convenient stick to beat us with Indeed... I still see people on other forums taking a pop at us for wiping out "£60m debt and getting a new stadium for nothing". They fail to realise that we still have to pay for the stadium and the much of the money we owed was for players contracts, all of which got paid up in full. Yes we did lose a large amount of debt, but compared to the numbers other clubs are losing now days it's absolutely peanuts. Lets not forget we would have paid our creditors back over a long period had it not been for Mr Wise and Hall.
davieG Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 People only had a go at us over being in administration because we were doing quite well on the pitch at the time.It's one of those enduring mysteries - why it's apparently ok to go into administration when you're doing badly, but there's something dreadfully unfair about being in administration when you're not crap. It's not really a mystery in our case though, as I think people just resented our preceding years of relative success. The thing that really pissed me off about it all though was the sudden apparent concern for our creditors' welfare shown by opposition fans, when of course they didn't give a shit about them and it was just a convenient stick to beat us with Let's not forget we also had in place a plan to pay our creditors in full until Eric Hall forced us into administration by demanding the immediate payment of Wise's signing on fee, purely out of spite and revenge for his sacking resulting in our creditors getting less but still more than Ipswich and many other clubs volunteering to got into admin paid their creditors. Oh and people still believe we got a brand new stadium for free out of it. Edit I should learn to type quicker than Babylon.
Babylon Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 Edit I should learn to type quicker than Babylon. Great minds think alike.
Fosse Boy Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 I wonder what the rules are about admission to the league in the event of the club ceasing to exist and a new one appearing in it's place over the summer? I am thinking MK Dons did not come into existence in the Ryman league. Surely if that can be allowed to happen, a new "FC Portsmouth" should be allowed into the league? After allowing MK ****** to materialise, I believe the FL/FA ruled that no such practice would ever be allowed to take place again (conveniently after they'd all taken their backhanders from Wankelman). So if Portsmouth were to cease to exist (heaven forbid), then any new club would to have to begin in the non-leagues.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 They're about to go under AND used to be run by the same guy as we are, so I'm certainly not laughing, no Agreed - I wouldn't want any club to go under. To add to what Flynny says, we should appreciate what it feels like... I actually shed tears when it was announced that we had come out of administration (was it against Walsall, I seem to remember us scoring 4 that day too!). I may be wrong in saying this, but I think we might have been the last club to have gone into administration and not deducted points - indeed, it could be argued that our example was the reason the punishment was introduced Relegate them, fine. Wipe them off the face of the earth, no. Like many of the posters in this thread I too am ashamed at the title of this thread.
iancognito Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 I don't want to see any club go under but Pompey were one of the loudest voices when we went into admin, had players playing for us for free and were up to our eyes in it. You can say it's pathetic but I doubt any of their lot would have had much sympathy if we'd have sunk without a trace and ended up in the Ryman league starting from scratch. It's good to see their fans and management struggling and going cap in hand at the end of every month but I'll shed as few tears for them as I did with Leeds when their over-spending dragged them down the divisions. I seem to remember Neil Warnock singing from the rooftops that we should have been punished that season but he seems to have gone quiet now the boot's on the other foot too. One thing I would say is that the points deduction really is a dopey way of punishing the club. Because taking points away and condemning them to relegation will really help them become solvent again and pay their creditors
Daggers Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 No one will properly give a shit until big clubs actually fold. This is nothing - Pompey hit admin, so the fuck what? They scrub some debt, drop a flight or two...boo fucking hoo. They return to their natural level as a second/third tier side and the second best in Hampshire. Big whoop. Will the FA start flexing its' digits? While the PL enforce some kind of proper control over foreign owners? Will 'fans' be given board positions? Will controls be placed on expenditure to income? Will they bollocks.
skinnydipper Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 1. Elsom's failure to negotiate contracts that provided for a reduction in player salaries in the event of relegation was instrumental in us being placed in administration. As a result we retained players that might otherwise have left and thereby obtained an unfair advantage on other clubs in the division by retaining a squad of players that was beyond our means. Therefore I can understand why there are those who had a pop at us at the time. 2. Thread title is pathetic. The people who really suffer are the fans who will feel the long term consequences of the reckless decisions of an elite few.Players will move on and the millionaire businessmen will remain millionaire businessmen. Even if some Portsmouth ****** were gloating at our situation previously I suspect it was a vocal minority and I've no interest in seeing their team disappear. 3. Surely it's time to bring in rules relating budget to a proportion of income. Failing that what's to stop speculators playing russian roulette with a club's finances in the hope of making a quick buck who and then being able to walk away without giving too much of a shit when it all goes tits up.
LCFC-ARAB Posted 26 February 2010 Posted 26 February 2010 Really sad to see I don't know why but since the season we both got promoted i have always kept an eye on their results
Donut Posted 27 February 2010 Posted 27 February 2010 Due to bad planning, winning the cup meant the players bonuses were higher than the actual financial gains of winning the cup. I think the guy that came up with the bonus structure should probably grab his coat. What the fook has it got to do with players bonuses that pompey have found themselves in this situation? Gaydamak over stretched in the process of WINNING the FA cup, but had the foresight to sell the club whilst it was an attractive proposition. Those FA Cup players are LONG GONE It is the collective fault of the owners (Al Fahim and Al Faraj) for not securing working capital for the day to day running of the club. Promises were made that were not kept. The wage structures of the club were brought down to ground zero, tens of millions of £££ worth of players were sold and yet the club STILL couldnt honour its creditors. Why were players not sold during the latest window, or why did the owners not see it fit to release equity from the club? TERRIBLE TOP LEVEL MANAGEMENT If anything you should be blaming the total ineptitude of Peter Storrie in securing a portfolio of the worst investment deals ever seen and seeing as he has decided to step down i think he realises that himself. I realise that we have been in administration too, but the principle of administration stinks as well. Creditors should get their money, simple as that. if that be a case of asset stripping then so be it. why should we look at a football club differently from any other business? Instead genuine business people (unlike Storrie and his middle eastern comrades) stand to lose thousands of pounds of their own money and staff at ground level are set to lose their jobs. The issue of football shouldnt make any difference, this "its all about passion blah blah" NO! CREDITORS SHOULD BE PAID, CLUB OR NOT Also, DO NOT SLAG OFF SOL CAMPBELL! why should he be made a scapegoat for wanting to claim his unpaid image rights? Just my opinion. Probably get some stick now
Donut Posted 27 February 2010 Posted 27 February 2010 1. Elsom's failure to negotiate contracts that provided for a reduction in player salaries in the event of relegation was instrumental in us being placed in administration. As a result we retained players that might otherwise have left and thereby obtained an unfair advantage on other clubs in the division by retaining a squad of players that was beyond our means. Therefore I can understand why there are those who had a pop at us at the time.2. Thread title is pathetic. The people who really suffer are the fans who will feel the long term consequences of the reckless decisions of an elite few.Players will move on and the millionaire businessmen will remain millionaire businessmen. Even if some Portsmouth ****** were gloating at our situation previously I suspect it was a vocal minority and I've no interest in seeing their team disappear. 3. Surely it's time to bring in rules relating budget to a proportion of income. Failing that what's to stop speculators playing russian roulette with a club's finances in the hope of making a quick buck who and then being able to walk away without giving too much of a shit when it all goes tits up. I agree with the principle wholeheartedly, but this will only serve to maintain the status quo we currently see in the game with the same teams challenging for everything, the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer. Most clubs simply dont have the commercial infastructure to make this viable. We shouldnt also label all speculative investment as bad (Randy Lerner as an excellent example)
davieG Posted 27 February 2010 Posted 27 February 2010 What the fook has it got to do with players bonuses that pompey have found themselves in this situation?Gaydamak over stretched in the process of WINNING the FA cup, but had the foresight to sell the club whilst it was an attractive proposition. Those FA Cup players are LONG GONE It is the collective fault of the owners (Al Fahim and Al Faraj) for not securing working capital for the day to day running of the club. Promises were made that were not kept. The wage structures of the club were brought down to ground zero, tens of millions of £££ worth of players were sold and yet the club STILL couldnt honour its creditors. Why were players not sold during the latest window, or why did the owners not see it fit to release equity from the club? TERRIBLE TOP LEVEL MANAGEMENT If anything you should be blaming the total ineptitude of Peter Storrie in securing a portfolio of the worst investment deals ever seen and seeing as he has decided to step down i think he realises that himself. I realise that we have been in administration too, but the principle of administration stinks as well. Creditors should get their money, simple as that. if that be a case of asset stripping then so be it. why should we look at a football club differently from any other business? Instead genuine business people (unlike Storrie and his middle eastern comrades) stand to lose thousands of pounds of their own money and staff at ground level are set to lose their jobs. The issue of football shouldnt make any difference, this "its all about passion blah blah" NO! CREDITORS SHOULD BE PAID, CLUB OR NOT Also, DO NOT SLAG OFF SOL CAMPBELL! why should he be made a scapegoat for wanting to claim his unpaid image rights? Just my opinion. Probably get some stick now Administration may stink but it's hardly exclusive to football clubs.
Guest ttfn Posted 27 February 2010 Posted 27 February 2010 It sounds like the administrator thinks something fishy's going on...
Guest Posted 27 February 2010 Posted 27 February 2010 Saint Gary has just said that he doesn't understand why clubs are docked points for going into administration. He remembers.
Jimothy Posted 27 February 2010 Posted 27 February 2010 I like the fact that even with a nine point deduction, Pompey will only be 1 point behind Derby's final total in 2006 and there is still 2 1/2 months of the season left.
The Doctor Posted 1 March 2010 Posted 1 March 2010 I wonder what the rules are about admission to the league in the event of the club ceasing to exist and a new one appearing in it's place over the summer? I am thinking MK Dons did not come into existence in the Ryman league. Surely if that can be allowed to happen, a new "FC Portsmouth" should be allowed into the league? Surely MK dons were allowed to start in L1 because thats what division wimbledon were in by the time the relocation was completed? I feel sorry for the fans but, like many others before them - they chased the dream and are now reaping what they have sown. Also saw on the football league paper that the Leyton Orient chairman Barry Hearn (sp) has called for teams in admin to be relegated two divisions. No offence but all these punishments are a bit of a joke - the FL/PL/FA claims it's "to stop teams gaining an advantage on others that are able to pay their debts on time" surely then if these clubs are unable to pay their debts then they should be given some sort of help to enable them to re-pay their debts rather than kicking them while they're down? Still , when we were in admin and the points deduction vote came, they voted for it, as did the likes of palace, rotherham, bournemouth and luton - perhaps they should have thought about long term security rather than short term success.
Webbo Posted 1 March 2010 Posted 1 March 2010 No offence but all these punishments are a bit of a joke - the FL/PL/FA claims it's "to stop teams gaining an advantage on others that are able to pay their debts on time" surely then if these clubs are unable to pay their debts then they should be given some sort of help to enable them to re-pay their debts rather than kicking them while they're down? So you're saying that if a club spend more money than they earn somebody should pay their debts for them? That'll teach them to live within their means.
Guest Posted 1 March 2010 Posted 1 March 2010 My main problem with a points deduction is that one board can get a club into financial difficulties and be long gone by the time the club goes into administration, leaving the new board to face the punishment whilst those responsible for the financial mismanagement can go off and balls up elsewhere in the footballing world.
davieG Posted 1 March 2010 Posted 1 March 2010 As a deterrent points deduction for going into admin is clearly not working and is in any case closing the door after the horse has bolted. The only people that suffer are the fans who have no direct influence on the running of the club. What the the football authorities should be doing is stopping clubs over reaching themselves in the first place by bringing in strict financial controls and ownership rules. It's not rocket science.
shen Posted 1 March 2010 Posted 1 March 2010 My main problem with a points deduction is that one board can get a club into financial difficulties and be long gone by the time the club goes into administration, leaving the new board to face the punishment whilst those responsible for the financial mismanagement can go off and balls up elsewhere in the footballing world. So a bit like USA football club then?
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